Dragon Talisman High-1A And 0 upgrade

[Fixxed]

This has been accepted as High-1B by Elizha in the previous thread (and Ultima on discord). For those who don't understand logic here:

Isn’t Ultima a staff? does additional staff vote matter if the 2 Staffs that shall not be named can’t refute any further as to why it shouldn’t be accepted?

there’s 2 staffs that are pretty knowledgeable that also SUPPORT the Tiering while no others can refute it, Isn’t it okay?

Well bruh this is complicated changes, not just like you upgrade verse to tier 3 or 2, we cannot going with just one staff input. Elizha also say we must have more staff input

Alright.
I have no major issues with the OP.
I guess this thread needs more staff input.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Elizhaa alone and one neutral staff for high 1-B or 1-A is fine but anything above that requires more staff input. Waiting for Ultima_Reality is a waste of time, but then again, not counting Elizhaa who is knowledgeable on said tiers, I can't think of another staff member who could possibly be interested.

I suggest waiting for more staff. If OP deems enough time has passed, they can just ask for this thread to be closed. Settling for high 1-B or just 1-A is barely half the pie and a bad compromise.

 

[Ren1999]

Bump

 

[Ren1999]

Bump

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

bump

 

[Antvasima]

@Antvasima More or less the same thing I've said to Phoenks, you're not helpful at all in this thread and only are derailing it. You bring no contribution to this as you're not reading the actual statements from the novel, not trying to help with the scaling like other users have done (ex. Elizhaa, mentioning him since I know you are favoring staff members), and are only showing not your so subtle hate for CCP, guess Chinese in general (which actual users are on this thread...), which simply only shows you as a racist (which I'm more or less thinking you are at this point after all your interaction with the Chinese web novels threads and even outside of them when you rant about it). I, also didn't help with the thread be it scaling, evaluating, and verifying whatever point but at least I don't comment like you at any occasion I get the chance about China doing that, China did this, if you have an opinion about a group, a race, a nation, etc just keep it for yourself, your group of friends and don't let it outside of these spheres of influence as tons of people are doing it already because it doesn't help anyone but paint them with different negative characteristics (such as yourself at this point as racist)...Just stay out of it if you have nothing constructive to say about the actual series. I'm more disappointed in you than in anyone else in this thread as you expect others to be neutral while you're not.

Last note, the thread was evaluated, and accepted by different members of the website be it normal users, or staff members, the CRT has been on for a long time and no one else commented but bumping in the hope that somehow Ultima will comment again (which he didn't and didn't participate for a long time). If you or anyone else have something against the tier, then make actual arguments using the text from the novel to base your arguments or actually construct them to be about the tier and not about its writing, plot, author, notability, etc. Close the thread, apply what has been evaluated and accepted and if you have problems then create a new thread with good arguments and counters. I will not participate in the scaling, and evaluating and continue to go on like I've done till now as I've posted sincerely because of this thread page is a pure derailment and because of nothing but a bad perspective on the Chinese novels from members who I would have expected more restrain when they basically know almost nothing to nothing about them and simple rant without a clue. Guess I will do a Bambu and simply continue to ignore these opinions (as I've done till now) and continue with my day while being less active.

Say what? I am definitely not a racist, nor do I dislike Chinese people in general. I simply dislike all types of media that seems morbid, dystopian, psychopathic, or tyrannically power-mad. This is by no means limited to Xianxia cultivation stories. It is a general viewpoint of mine.

As for the CCP, it is likely the biggest totalitarian threat to humanity as a whole that has ever existed in human history, there is no getting around that issue, but I am not remotely angry or bigoted towards all of the hundreds of millions of people that they have enslaved, especially not the ones placed in one of their several hundred gulags for thought crimes. That wouldn't make any sense. I simply do not approve of tyrants or tyranny in general, or of the kind of cruel, amoral, and power-mad values that they are trying to brainwash regular decent people with. I am not going to apologise for that, and I am sure that I will eventually suffer extremely greatly for it.

 

[Tarang123]

Say what? I am definitely not a racist, nor do I dislike Chinese people in general. I simply dislike all types of media that seems morbid, dystopian, psychopathic, or tyrannically power-mad. This is by no means limited to Xianxia cultivation stories. It is a general viewpoint of mine

But why would you agree to the deletion of verses because they don’t appeal to your tastes?

Also, how exactly do you define “psychopathic”

 

[Antvasima]

I do not remember arguing for deleting verses only due to that I personally extremely strongly dislike them. If I had made this a major agenda of mine, the Cthulhu Mythos would have been gone a very long time ago. If there are several other problems as well, as is the case with the SCP Foundation, I might consider it though.

As for psychopathic, to me it basically means absolutely egotistical, amoral, power-mad, cruel, tyrannical, and conscience- and compassion-deprived.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

But why would you agree to the deletion of verses because they don’t appeal to your tastes?

Instead of following mindless outrage, it's advisable to sit down and actually read what's being said.

He said he would personally forbid them. Meaning, that's his opinion and not an attempt to enforce a personal standard. He's agreeing with Phoenks, yet acknowledging that is his personal bias.

 

[SweetDao]

While I only saw the thread from afar, I honestly think that the situation escalated a bit too much. If anything, Ant probably phrased his opinion in a way that could be misinterpreted, I suppose.

As for the thread itself, 1-A seems fine, I don't know about anything above tho.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, I have never actually removed such verses from the wiki solely due to that I strongly morally disapprove of them for the past 9 years. I have occasionally been grouchy and complained about them though. I want to remove SCP because I consider it to not originate within actual stories but within fact sheets. That it seems morbid, dystopian, nihilistic, and psychopathic simply makes me dislike it even more.

 

[Antvasima]

That said, I have been in a bad mood regarding all of the destructive mind-poison in worldwide media for a long time, and should not have expressed myself in such a thoughtless manner.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

As for the thread itself, 1-A seems fine, I don't know about anything above tho.

I also greatly trust Elizhaa's conclusions, indeed.

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway, what are the current staff conclusions regarding this revision?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

It's funny how Suggsverse basically did an even more extreme version of this about two decades ago.

They're just playing catch up SCP tbh

As for the thread, I'm honestly not really seeing this happening for it for the same reason we don't allow franchises like Suggsverse. It seems like a pure power scaling-based series for the purpose of big numbers and we tend to stay away from those.

Neutral but can we not just look at every "Big Numbers Wow" work of fiction and just automatically assume it's a battleboarder verse? I've Sage Monarch fully, one of the main novels in this verse and while its writing is.... questionable, it doesn't just exist in a vacuum for power's sake and neither do most of these ones. Not to mention their massive notoriety in China and beyond.

TL;DR it may be cringe but it's not a Suggsverse expy.

Suggsverse also isn't about battle boarding, but it's constructed in the exact same format as this proposal.

Also... what do you mean the work is racist?


You're literally arguing for both of these things.


I didn't say it was a battle boarding verse, I said it was power scale heavy verse that uses terms that we associate with other banned franchises.

Qawsedf seems to think that this verse follows in on the same road Suggs is and that because of that, it may not be accepted. Though Planck disagrees.

In terms of the OP and the tiering:

What about the flower hierarchy (around chapter 630) that was discussed in the last thread, which could make 2-A to High 1-B?
Interestingly, that flower hierarchy statement is much earlier than the void statement around chapter 993.


Didn't the fight occur in the abyss/void, though, in chapters 1148-1150? If yes, it seems valid for 1-A as it was a higher realm.

Elizhaa agrees with a solid 1-A rating (which I take he also agrees the verse can be indexed)

 

[Antvasima]

Well, if this is identical in conceptual structure to the works of Suggs, i.e. designed solely to be the strongest verse ever based on our own powerscaling terminology, that seems like a much better reason for not allowing it than me simply not morally approving of these types of stories.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

That was Phoenks' argument as well.

Me personally, I don't think it strictly follows battleboarding terminology and such and such, but that it's indeed a blatant powerfantasy verse. To my knowledge, the latter is not really banned (however the quality of the overall verse is), so I think it should be allowed.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. That seems like a valid point.

 

[Phoenks]

That was Phoenks' argument as well.

Me personally, I don't think it strictly follows battleboarding terminology and such and such, but that it's indeed a blatant powerfantasy verse. To my knowledge, the latter is not really banned (however the quality of the overall verse is), so I think it should be allowed.

I'd actually be fine with this verse being allowed. It's just that I feel there is a double-standard here, since the wiki is usually so against verses that have similar terminology and blatant "super-power-scale" aspects to them. Which is why I brought up Suggsverse and Hybrid Mage. They are the two best examples of verses that are banned for that reason.

This and the Blue & White verse had very similar writing in the parts that made them high tier.

I am not going to say that their entire stories are written that way, nor have I ever claimed that. It's fine if everything else is normal, but again, those parts of the story are not what this site looks at.

Hybrid Mage is also just a normal power scaling story if you ignore the things that make it so high tier, however, this wiki only looks at the stuff that makes it high tier, and as such, it is banned because of its absurd power scaling aspects.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

I don't know the circumstances regarding HM, apologies there. However, if there's argument to be had for it's inclusion, should be revisited later on.

For now, let's concentrate on the OP.

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway, I would greatly appreciate if we all avoid any very offensive and extremely misleading accusations of racism and bigotry due to anybody here disliking tyrannical psychopaths that happen to be of a specific ethnicity.

It doesn't make any sense to claim that somebody is an anti-caucasian racist due to that they dislike Nazism; it doesn't make any sense to claim that somebody is an anti-arab racist because they dislike Daesh; and it doesn't make any sense to claim that somebody is an anti-Chinese racist due to them disliking the CCP.

 

[deonment]

I'd actually be fine with this verse being allowed. It's just that I feel there is a double-standard here, since the wiki is usually so against verses that have similar terminology and blatant "super-power-scale" aspects to them. Which is why I brought up Suggsverse and Hybrid Mage. They are the two best examples of verses that are banned for that reason.

The way this is written is quite literally a toned-down version of actual Buddhist and Daoist texts, it is from those texts this work takes its inspiration, especially with the recursive aspect of cosmology. Examples of this in actual buddhist or buddhist based texts would be JTTW or texts which speak about buddha-lands in atoms.
This style of writing and vast scale is quite common within eastern xianxia or xuanhuan as can be seen with cultivation novels holding planets as large as stars, galaxies as large as universes, and what have you. The reason why they do have these absolutely vast scales of magnitude untold is due to the fact that they are most of the time basing these works upon eastern philosophy or religion which is far, far, far more absurd than what you see here, with those faiths also being an actor behind multiple of our tier 0 or High 1-A verses, so a verse which is basing itself upon those religions also reaching that peak, while also not being a flagrant attempt to create THE most powerful verse in fiction when compared to those other two
If you are holding an issue with the names given to the multiverses however, then you should also hold issue with the name given to things in Isekai at Peace which has power levels being called Quasi-Omnipotent, Omnipotent, Beyond Omnipotent, and more, or how A Wild Last Boss Appear's later Volumes do things.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Qawsedf234 & Phoenks pretty much have the same points that have been addressed. The former is gone and the latter has yet to address the points brought up against them, especially by Zaratthustra.

Also Nanoverse, Microverse, Mesoverse, Megaverse, Gigaverse, Super-Teraverse , etc, might sound like battleboarding terms but it is a simplified translation, not a literal one. For example:

• 大型宇宙 = Megaverse which is 大型 for large and 宇宙 for universe
• 巨型宇宙 = Gigaverse which is 巨型 for giant/enormous and 宇宙 for universe
• 超级巨型宇宙 = Super-Teraverse which is 超级 for super/ultra/hyper and 巨型 for giant/enormous and 宇宙 for universe

 

[Qawsedf234]

Qawsedf234 & Phoenks pretty much have the same points that have been addressed. The former is gone

I mean, I'm not gone. It's just I have nothing to add here. If I'm outvoted and the verse is allowed on site, sure, everything said in the OP would be a valid reason (as in, the tiering of High 1-A/0 is valid). I just think it's a hypocritical move on our part when other heavily power scaling verses get banned but this is allowed through. Which was my issue in the first place.

If you are holding an issue with the names given to the multiverses however, then you should also hold issue with the name given to things in Isekai at Peace which has power levels being called Quasi-Omnipotent, Omnipotent, Beyond Omnipotent, and more, or how A Wild Last Boss Appear's later Volumes do things.

If that's the case, then yeah. That should also not be allowed on here if its just a pure scaling thing like Suggsverse.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Seems this discussion will be inevitable huh

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

I mean, I'm not gone. It's just I have nothing to add here. If I'm outvoted and the verse is allowed on site, sure, everything said in the OP would be a valid reason (as in, the tiering of High 1-A/0 is valid). I just think it's a hypocritical move on our part when other heavily power scaling verses get banned but this is allowed through. Which was my issue in the first place.

If that's the case, then yeah. That should also not be allowed on here if its just a pure scaling thing like Suggsverse.

You know you could just point out the exact 'heavily power scaling' nature of OP. Also before you write it, I should say that this is a tier 1/0 thread, so at-least make your points seem valid rather than an outcry for overpowered scaling on a tier 1/0 thread.

On the topic of making your points valid, I would also like to add that you have not read the series, nor do you know the toils and tribulations of the MC to reach this point nor how much of OP's quotes account for in the series in terms of percentages. So I will wait for a comprehensive post from you rather than an ambiguous one.

Edit: I really do hope you don't compared it to Suggsverse without any actual quotes to back it up and also the fact that Suggsverse was specifically banned for a number of reasons that I have already posted here. Which this series doesn't objectively meet. So I assume you're left with expressing your opinion rather than a stance backed by your site status, which would be derailing as much as Antvasima.

 

[Qawsedf234]

You know you could just point out the exact 'heavily power scaling' nature of OP.

I mean, this section here

Just as Gu Chensha spoke, there were pieces of unintelligible, unspeakable, unpredictable, unpredictable, unintelligible, unexplainable, unknowable, unobservable, unresearchable things on the top of his head.
This thing has never happened in the world.
It is neither material nor energy, nor immaterial, nor non-energy, nor mind, nor non-mind. No one can understand what this power is, nor can anyone see what this power is.
Even with the cultivation bases of Wen Hong, Zhuge Ya, Lou Baiyue and others, they couldn't understand what this thing was at all, they seemed to have become stupid.
However, this force soon enveloped them and formed a large cocoon on their bodies.

Which is exactly the sort of things other verses are banned for. For example here's a quote from a verse we have banned

Abel and Fallen stood before Chris Spades suspended in animation, suspended in reality. The reality behind the suspended scene presented both of them fighting within every dimension of the space-time continuum, in every aspect, in all levels infinitely, endlessly, and before information and instantaneous could process. They encompassed the immanent, transcendent, and the beyond. They encompassed the transcendent realities that encompassed the infinite. Their mere thoughts were collapsing the entirety of the Alphaverse.

I don't personally see a major difference between these two scenes.

nor do you know the toils and tribulations of the MC

I don't, but most people haven't read any of Suggs work and that's also banned. So the comparison here doesn't work for me; which is why I said my basis of this rejection is going off other similar things we've banned. If I didn't mention it I would be hypocritical. At least hypocritical from my PoV.

EDIT: I posted this from a phone and accidentally submitted it to early. Which is why this response was edited a couple times. Apologies if this causes any quoting issues, I just wanted to make it clear that I'm not trying to stealth edit my comment or anything.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

One issue I'm having with the calling out series for being suggsverse is. Unlike suggsverse or hybrid mage this verse was not made by a powerscaler nor is there proof of him being active in power scaling spaces like the hybrid mage author, and it has sufficient enough notability outside of a powerscaling community as it's literally a top novel series in China.

About Blue and White it wasn't removed for powerscaling reasons but because it turned out to "borrow" way too much other intellectual property.

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

I mean, this section here

Isn't this just an excerpt from budhhist sutra?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Isn't this just an excerpt from budhhist sutra?

There's also

Even as he spoke, he waved his hand, causing everything around him to spin. Shockingly, he was using some sort of teleportation technique to teleport the entire temple into a larger universe.
Originally, the ranks of universes were divided into Nanoverse, Microverse, Mesoverse, Megaverse, Gigaverse, Super-Teraverse, Super-Giant-Teraverse and Hyper-Infiniteverse and Inconceivableverses.
But now, a universe even larger than an inconceivable universe had been born.That was "Annullverse".
This universe was formed by the power that was spread throughout the multiverse.

The Mortal Realm was too big. It was divided into infinite continents, infinite dimensions and infinite worlds. Many continents and other continents could not be reached by flying. They were not on the same plane, so not only were the spatial lines different, but the timelines were also different.

Ha ha ha ha......" The giant who created the cosmic ocean laughed: "Without the limitation of lifespan and the control of the virtual panel, I can express my power endlessly, and finally I have completed my own thoughts. I created my own cosmic sea. Every drop of water in this ocean is a universe, and there is a universe inside the universe, one loop after another. I think the universe has no secrets for me now. My power can be improved endlessly because the power of my mind is infinite, and in the universes I created, the power of every creature is also infinite. Many infinities plus infinities, and the power is indescribable

In the current four hyper-infiniteverses, each stands in its own right, the new world, the old world, the non-new and old world, and the lifeless universe.
Just like a long time ago, the brood universe, the arcane universe, the Taiwu universe, and the Hunyuan universe were juxtaposed.However, the arcane, brood and other universes at that time were just Super-Giant Terraverses, one level smaller than the current lifeless universe.
Don't look at this small level, that is, the difference between heaven and earth is not enough to describ

I'm not seeing how any of these statements aren't ultra power scaley. In fact I'd say if you were to look into it, you can probably find a 1:1 comparison in our banned verses and these statements. Or at least something close enough.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

I mean, this section here
Which is exactly the sort of things other verses are banned for.

Already addressed here. Not to mention the fact that it is also evidence for TD (Type 3). How is expressing the incomprehensible and unattainable nature of said description any thing close a focus on a heavy power scaling verse. I guess even quotes from Buddhism fit your perception of a verse focus on power scaling. Also in my previous post, I did say I hope you wouldn't use the latter part of this series as evidence.

Also please list a single verse that was banned for this specific reason. Again, I said this specific reason.

I don't, but most people haven't read any of Suggs work and that's also banned. So the comparison here doesn't work for me; which is why I said my basis of this rejection is going off other similar things we've banned. If I didn't mention it I would be hypocritical. At least hypocritical from my PoV.

Suggsverse was banned for a number of reasons. Whether it was people that read it or did not, the over abundance of the work, with quotes from both staff and regular members lead to a final decision, not to mention the subjective/objective perception of its author.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

There's also




I'm not seeing how any of these statements aren't ultra power scaley

Again, you're using the actual evidence being used in a tier 1/0 thread to try and prove it is a verse focused heavily on powerscaling. This could be done in literally any tier 1/0 thread by using their evidence against them. I hope you realise just asinine this is.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Already addressed here.

You and Zara do bring up a good point. Ultimately my bias regarding other works is leaking into this one and that's unot fair to it or it's fans despite any misgivings that I may have.

To add, I have said in other threads that what effects one thing shouldn't really effect another in principle outside of demonstration purposes.

Also please list a single verse that was banned for this specific reason

I do think we should iron out stuff like this to avoid future issues from people like me making similar claims. But that can be for another thread.

As I said from the original comment the scaling itself seems valid to my understanding of how we treat superiority and unreachable gaps between 1-A, High 1-A and 0.

 

[Planck69]

I love how most of the "1:1 powerscaling jargon" is literally just excerpts from Buddhism or is text I'd see in Lovecraft's works.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

You and Zara do bring up a good point. Ultimately my bias regarding other works is leaking into this one and that's unot fair to it or it's fans despite any misgivings that I may have.

To add, I have said in other threads that what effects one thing shouldn't really effect another in principle outside of demonstration purposes.



I do think we should iron out stuff like this to avoid future issues from people like me making similar claims. But that can be for another thread.

As I said from the original comment the scaling itself seems valid to my understanding of how we treat superiority and unreachable gaps between 1-A, High 1-A and 0.

Thank you for being understanding. You are free to create a staff thread covering this and also I shouldn't have engaged you here. I should have done so in another thread or on either of our walls.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Thank you for being understanding. You are free to create a staff thread covering this and also I shouldn't have engaged you here. I should have done so in another thread or on either of our walls.

You did what you had to do. No worries.

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

2 staff votes so far only one more needed

 

[Antvasima]

So what is the staff consensus here so far?

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

So what is the staff consensus here so far?

2 staff votes so far only one more needed

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Can somebody summarise all of the relevant information here so I and others can help with making a decision please?

Is this simply a Suggsverse-style powerscaling verse with no other story beyond that, or is it a legitimate storyline? I am not fond of spamming our tier 0 category page with more and more of these types of hollow pseudo-stories in the SCP-style.