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Also luffy was also able to transmutate photons by bouncing them away
And whenever he ate one and felt the heat, he nullified it and was completely fine afterwards instantly
![1093-015.png](https://scans-hot.leanbox.us/manga/One-Piece/1093-015.png)
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Yes it was pre timeskip. Now tell me how that justifies him ignoring heat 4,000+ times hotter than lightning.lightning temp affecting him was pre timeskip... He can and has nullified heat when we literally see the heat not affecting the ground. You ignoring this is your fault
Already addressed photons earlier. Not the same as nullifying heat.![]()
Also luffy was also able to transmutate photons by bouncing them away
And whenever he ate one and felt the heat, he nullified it and was completely fine afterwards instantly
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Too bad kaido has haki meaning luffy won't be able to always transmute everythingYes it was pre timeskip. Now tell me how that justifies him ignoring heat 4,000+ times hotter than lightning.
A heat base attack not melting the ground isn’t justification for Luffy nullifying heat. You’re gonna have to prove the ground didn’t melt because Luffy nullified the heat.
Especially considering you’re using that as evidence for him being able to nullify 200+ million degrees. I’ve already said numerous times that if Luffy could nullify heat, he’d have engage Kaido in very different scenarios. You’re gonna have to do better than that.
No it does not... It burning him and then after the heat never being able to burn him justifies him being able to transmute and stop the heatAlready addressed photons earlier. Not the same as nullifying heat.
lol nothing suggest he nullified heat in that scan. I can eat a gram of burning coal, scream it burns and proceed to endure it. The fact it burns him disproves every anti heat argument so far.
Unless his flames aren't composed of atoms, they will... Otherwise Natsu's fire would have resistance to non physical interactionAlso, Luffy wouldn't be able to transmute his Flames as his Flames can affect concepts unless someone can show me Luffy transmute some like Natsu Flames, am all ears.
And haki has resistance negation so it would still workNatsu (or dragon slayers) have resistance to transmutation
E.N.D wasn't restricted so he can use it.
I’ve already addressed the Haki explanation. Which lead to a wide long amount of assumptions.Too bad kaido has haki meaning luffy won't be able to always transmute everything
And luffy already has transmutation at that level and has shown it as well... At this point your just being purposefully ignorant to support your argument even tho it's accepted as such on luffy's profile and has been shown in the manga like that against heat
The heat level won't matter if the heat is transmuted
No it does not... It burning him and then after the heat never being able to burn him justifies him being able to transmute and stop the heat
You do know that if the particles are turned to rubber, there's no heat that will flow through luffy or objects. That's how he can physically grab the lightning since it's not going through him, same way what happened to Boro breath
Gonna vote luffy fra since I've yet to see a way for natsu overcoming the transmutation and reality warping of luffy
and I've provided the feats, you are ignoring themMany power listings literally have notes that feats are required so as to not enter NLF territory.
No you have notI’ve already addressed Luffy’s inability and lack of feats regarding nullifying heat.
It literally showed you how luffy was able to bounce away the photons afterwards and it's heat not affecting him the second time... Has nothing to do with endurance at that pointSo if I eat a gram of coal, it burns me and then proceeds not to do so after some time, it means I have heat nullification…OR maybe it’s because the heat was already transferred onto me and nothing burns forever unless they possess infinite energy
Yes it is, heat is generated by particles the same way matter is able to generate forceAlready addressed the lightning. Again! heat isn’t particles but energy.
The evidence is in his profile and the showings against boro breathYou’re claiming Luffy can nullify heat (which means virtually all types of energies) without any evidence.
If you're simply going to ignore everything and act like luffy doesn't have transmutation, then you shouldn'tThe same old, repetitive, assumptions, headcanons without a shred of evidence. I’m not gonna bother engaging.
Luffy has around 7 layers of resistance negation... Since he's able to transmute kaido even tho not at all timesWould like to mention that Natsu does have layered (1 layer) transmutation resistance, and dragon slayer magic has innate properties that nullify attempts to transmute it into pure energy
I don't see how Haki can affect conceptsUnless his flames aren't composed of atoms, they will... Otherwise Natsu's fire would have resistance to non physical interaction
And haki has resistance negation so it would still work
Why would it need to... Is Natsu's flame a concept...?I don't see how Haki can affect concepts
No but his flames effects are.Why would it need to... Is Natsu's flame a concept...?
But they still isn't a concept, what the fire is able to do vs what the fire is composed of, is what mattersNo but his flames effects are.
He's running from the island because it's becoming inhabitable and their goal is to escape it with Vegapunk.He’s also currently running from Fire Manipulation from Warcury right now because it’s too hot… So like… Yeah…
No.Doesn’t Gear 5th run out in like 5 minutes?
This is simply not true... Only the giants were affected by the surrounding fireHe’s also currently running from Fire Manipulation from Warcury right now because it’s too hot… So like… Yeah…
even if that was true he would still be able to utilize his hakiDoesn’t Gear 5th run out in like 5 minutes? Then he has to spend time in Base…
Yes, but for some reason he doesn't always do itAnd luffy can push himself to keep on going in gear 5 if he wants to
It's good to notice tho that af far as we know he can only do that once or twice (which is the amount of times he could do it in Wano).And luffy can push himself to keep on going in gear 5 if he wants to
Btw Mitch, since you brought Luffy's stamina limits up, what about Natsu? His profile isn't much clear in regards to stamina as it focuses on his endurance, do any of his feats (or someone he scales to) give an idea on how long he can keep his powers at its peak?Doesn’t Gear 5th run out in like 5 minutes? Then he has to spend time in Base… He’s also currently running from Fire Manipulation from Warcury right now because it’s too hot… So like… Yeah…
because he doesn't need to, it also like gear 2nd where it's dangerous to his lifeYes, but for some reason he doesn't always do it
yeah, because their rivals are not kaidobecause he doesn't need to
yeah, because their rivals are not kaido![]()
Yee but that's him trying to rest, even here he was immobile yet still turned gear 5 on again, I think it's just he can transform until he dies or somethingIt's good to notice tho that af far as we know he can only do that once or twice (which is the amount of times he could do it in Wano).
In Egghead, chapter 1094, Luffy says he reached his limit and after that he was incapacitated and seemingly unable to move at all until he got food to recover his energy.
kaigoat lolI mean he hasn't yet even used adv con haki
I mean, sure, but in Egghead we saw that he had to be saved from attacks (as Franky did) and he didn't seem to be able to reactivate it at will given he first had to eat before using it again.Yee but that's him trying to rest, even here he was immobile yet still turned gear 5 on again, I think it's just he can transform until he dies or something
Ehhh, each of the gears has a different side effect/time limit, so Idk if that helps much.We don't fully understand the gear 5 time limit tho but it seems to act like his other gears
Well it seems to be like gear 4 + gear 2nd affect kinda... This is kinda derailing at this point thoEhhh, each of the gears has a different side effect/time limit, so Idk if that helps much.
This is simply not true, he didn't have to eat with kaido... Which is where he faught the most serious withI mean, sure, but in Egghead we saw that he had to be saved from attacks (as Franky did) and he didn't seem to be able to reactivate it at will given he first had to eat before using it again.
via this it took around 32 seconds for luffy to get back to normal![]()
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We see here, he looks old and exhausted, then was fine
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Could I get your summary on how you think this fight goes?via this it took around 32 seconds for luffy to get back to normal
We are discussing the limits of his powers, I don't see how that could be derailing.Well it seems to be like gear 4 + gear 2nd affect kinda... This is kinda derailing at this point tho
I mean, that's fair enough, but as I said above, we are discussing his limits regarding G5, as he clearly can't keep it up indefinitely.This is simply not true, he didn't have to eat with kaido... Which is where he faught the most serious with
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We see here, he looks old and exhausted, then was fine
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He didn't have to be saved, same thing that happened in Dressrosa was that he was reserving his strength and not moving on his own
If that was true, luffy wouldn't be capable of stretching or even eating by himself
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Since you compared G5's side effect with G4's, do we know if Luffy can use his haki in these 32 seconds? Especially in the few seconds where his body gets wrinkled after he deactivates G5.via this it took around 32 seconds for luffy to get back to normal
highly doubt itSince you compared G5's side effect with G4's, do we know if Luffy can use his haki in these 32 seconds? Especially in the few seconds where his body gets wrinkled after he deactivates G5
well it is derailing because we're assuming luffy would have to instantly go gear 5 and then not be able to do anything until he's out of stamina, which at that point with haki he has easily enough time to take out natsu before getting tiredWe are discussing the limits of his powers, I don't see how that could be derailing.
So how long do you think that he can keep G5 straight and how many times can he reactivate it before being 100% exhausted?
Well Gear 5 would affect only mostly his body/DF not haki since it's a devil fruit amp/awakening, same way how gear 4 is specifically a haki power up and only is unable to use haki that waySince you compared G5's side effect with G4's, do we know if Luffy can use his haki in these 32 seconds? Especially in the few seconds where his body gets wrinkled after he deactivates G5.
A good part of the arguments for Luffy here included his ability to transmute Natsu's flames/heat into rubber, so it's good to find these kinds of things out.well it is derailing because we're assuming luffy would have to instantly go gear 5 and then not be able to do anything until he's out of stamina, which at that point with haki he has easily enough time to take out natsu before getting tired
That makes sense, did we ever get any indication he was using buso or kenbu while suffering from the side effects tho?Well Gear 5 would affect only mostly his body/DF not haki since it's a devil fruit amp/awakening, same way how gear 4 is specifically a haki power up and only is unable to use haki that way
That doesn't answer the question, yk...After he turns to normal from old age, he can reactive it again, but if he needs to regain it fast... He'll force it or eat food. That's how it's been shown
uhh not sure, but one is where he was capable of moving while everyone else was locked in placeThat makes sense, did we ever get any indication he was using buso or kenbu while suffering from the side effects tho?
I kinda did, when he turns to normal from old age he should be able to go gear 5 againThat doesn't answer the question, yk...
I am kinda confused now, before you said he was resting but this page here implies he was in deep need of food to keep fighting.uhh not sure, but one is where he was capable of moving while everyone else was locked in place
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Saturn was already holding 3 or 4 other characters, I am not sure the range and limit of targets were ever directly explained (in a more recent chapter for example he wasn't able to restrict the movements of a group of fodder characters who were attacking from a distance).And saturn couldn't do anything when he was eating and saying to put him in sea stone cuffs instead
The question was how many times he could reactivate it, as I said before it doesn't look like he can forcibly reactivate it more than once or twice.I kinda did, when he turns to normal from old age he should be able to go gear 5 again
Food to activate gear 5 quicker/instantly, otherwise if he didn't get food... He would've forced it and dangered his life for Bonney at the right moment like he did with kaidoI am kinda confused now, before you said he was resting but this page here implies he was in deep need of food to keep fighting.
He clearly could've stopped him if he wanted to but said to the soldiers to put sea stone on him for a reason... Not sure where range or limit of targets comes fromSaturn was already holding 3 or 4 other characters, I am not sure the range and limit of targets were ever directly explained (in a more recent chapter for example he wasn't able to restrict the movements of a group of fodder characters who were attacking from a distance).
It seems like he could, you don't know how much it affects him to force itThe question was how many times he could reactivate it, as I said before it doesn't look like he can forcibly reactivate it more than once or twice.