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Dragon Ball Z Manga Power Scaling

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Yajirobe

Yajirobe (ヤジロベー) is a human ronin who met Goku while the latter was searching for Tambourine. Tier: 5-C | At least 5-C, far higher with his katana Key: Piccolo Daimaō Arc | Post-Training with Kami Name: Yajirobe Origin: Dragon Ball Gender: Male Age: 45 (during the Universe 6 Saga)...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
 
Can we get rid of the "likely" ratings on MFTL speeds? They're pretty unnecessary and make it difficult to read. Can't we straight up make them MFTL+ without the likely?
 
Sorry, i'm kind of lost since i unfollowed this thread for several days.

Did we reach a conclusion about the Shin = SSJ Goku scaling?
 
Vizer04 said:
Can we get rid of the "likely" ratings on MFTL speeds? They're pretty unnecessary and make it difficult to read. Can't we straight up make them MFTL+ without the likely?
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I agree.
Vizer04 said:
Sorry, i'm kind of lost since i unfollowed this thread for several days.

Did we reach a conclusion about the Shin = SSJ Goku scaling?
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Yes. That scaling doesn't work.
 
Shin is most definitely not SSJ Goku level. And yeah, the likely should be removed. Goku isn't the type to lie and exaggarate about his power or mastery of them (For example, he knew he was weaker than Cell, and didn't tried to say otherwise or boast about his power)
 
We are talking about a dude who can identify exactly how powerful piccolo is by watching him fight fodder extemely suppressed. The same dude capable of instantly identifying the flaws of a SSJ form, while another extremely talented warrior couldn't even after fighting in it.
I find it disingenuous to believe that Goku may have been misjudging his own capabilities.
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
We are talking about a dude who can identify exactly how powerful piccolo is by watching him fight fodder extemely suppressed. The same dude capable of instantly identifying the flaws of a SSJ form, while another extremely talented warrior couldn't even after fighting in it.
I find it disingenuous to believe that Goku may have been misjudging his own capabilities.
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Yeah that is true. Goku is very observant and he doesn't lie about his power unlike a certain prince of all saiyans. The likely doesn't make any sense, and it's obviously just a way so DBZ wouldn't get MFTL+ despite them having every right to have it
 
Vizer04 said:
Thank you, who is the next strongest character Shin scales to?
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Piccolo after coming out of the Time Chamber, who is at least >>>> The Androids. I'm not sure if he should scale to Semi-Perfect Cell but it doesn't matter much

Shin was stated to be stronger than Buu Saga Piccolo, who is likely above his Cell Games counterpart
 
Antvasima said:
We do not allow linking to Discord-hosted images within our wiki. You need to upload the image to Imgur and link to that instead.

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Yajirobe

Yajirobe (ヤジロベー) is a human ronin who met Goku while the latter was searching for Tambourine. Tier: 5-C | At least 5-C, far higher with his katana Key: Piccolo Daimaō Arc | Post-Training with Kami Name: Yajirobe Origin: Dragon Ball Gender: Male Age: 45 (during the Universe 6 Saga)...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
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@Vizer04

Have you corrected this?
 
Okay. Tell us here when you are done please.
 
I don't think so. The Cell Juniors are clearly much stronger than Piccolo is. Cell himself stated that only Vegeta and Trunks were capable of holding their own against them
 
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
I don't think so. The Cell Juniors are clearly much stronger than Piccolo is. Cell himself stated that only Vegeta and Trunks were capable of holding their own against them
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Are they? Aside from Cell’s statement, nothing really implies that they’re vastly superior, and we see Piccolo clashing with one of them.
 
LordTracer said:
Are they? Aside from Cell’s statement, nothing really implies that they’re vastly superior, and we see Piccolo clashing with one of them.
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He doesn't scale. Cell himself states that only Trunks and Vegeta can hold their own. The Cell Junior wasn't really damaged after dealing with Piccolo
 
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
He doesn't scale. Cell himself states that only Trunks and Vegeta can hold their own. The Cell Junior wasn't really damaged after dealing with Piccolo
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Neither were the cell jrs that trunks and vegeta were fighting. And the mere fact that piccolo is standing while goku and the other humans are down means he scales. This fatigued Goku is still able to force cell to put effort in their fight, and even then he was said to be the only one capable of fighting cell yet cell jr beat him easily and vegeta trunks and piccolo were able to fight them.
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
Neither were the cell jrs that trunks and vegeta were fighting. And the mere fact that piccolo is standing while goku and the other humans are down means he scales. This fatigued Goku is still able to force cell to put effort in their fight, and even then he was said to be the only one capable of fighting cell yet cell jr beat him easily and vegeta trunks and piccolo were able to fight them.
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If anything that means Trunks and Vegeta doesn't scale either. Piccolo was explicably stated to not be able to fight the Cell Juniors like Trunks and Vegeta

Also, the fatigued Goku doesn't scale to Cell. He did forced him to be serious and gave Cell a challange, but that was BEFORE he wasted all of his energy in the Instant Kamehameha, which did a severe damage to Cell and almost killed him (though Cell regenerated). After that, Goku immediately gave up, and was left with no energy to really fight anymore

The Cell Jrs. were stomping everyone aside from Vegeta and Trunks, who managed to somewhat hold their own, as noted by Cell himself
 
The Androids are 4-C+ while Semi-Perfect Cell and the Cell Jrs. are High 4-C as of now

Shin should either scale to 4-C+ by being >>> Buu Saga Piccolo who is >>>>> Android 17 and Android 18, or High 4-C by being >>> Piccolo > Semi-Perfect Cell, though this is more uncertain
 
I don't think we have much proof of Piccolo being > Semi-Perfect Cell after being in the Time Chamber, so I'm not sure if we can scale him
 
Why Goku is portrayed here as 1/10th of First Form Frieza's power when it's clearly not the case here? Goku's scaling is to Second Form Frieza, not to First Form Frieza
 
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
If anything that means Trunks and Vegeta doesn't scale either. Piccolo was explicably stated to not be able to fight the Cell Juniors like Trunks and Vegeta

Also, the fatigued Goku doesn't scale to Cell. He did forced him to be serious and gave Cell a challange, but that was BEFORE he wasted all of his energy in the Instant Kamehameha, which did a severe damage to Cell and almost killed him (though Cell regenerated). After that, Goku immediately gave up, and was left with no energy to really fight anymore

The Cell Jrs. were stomping everyone aside from Vegeta and Trunks, who managed to somewhat hold their own, as noted by Cell himself
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Despite the fact that we see piccolo fighting back and still standing and fine just like trunks and vegeta.
Not true, Goku damaged cell and forced him to use a barrier technique while heavily fatigued. Vegeta literally says no one can beat cell except Goku yet, goku gets folded by a cell jr. while piccolo remains standing.
 
You realize that Goku only fought the Cell Jrs. after losing all his stamina right? He doesn't nearly have enough power to fight back anymore

And you realize that everyone but Gohan and Cell were literally shocked and horrified by Goku's power when he battled? Your statement make it seems that Piccolo > FP Goku which is false. After Goku forced Cell to use his force field, he lost all stamina

Besides, Piccolo don't scale. It was directly said in the manga he don't stand a chance. I don't care if he's still standing since that don't say much.
 
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
You realize that Goku only fought the Cell Jrs. after losing all his stamina right? He doesn't nearly have enough power to fight back anymore

And you realize that everyone but Gohan and Cell were literally shocked and horrified by Goku's power when he battled? Your statement make it seems that Piccolo > FP Goku which is false. After Goku forced Cell to use his force field, he lost all stamina

Besides, Piccolo don't scale. It was directly said in the manga he don't stand a chance. I don't care if he's still standing since that don't say much.
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Um, that was literally Goku's last attack against cell. He pushed cell while heavily fatigued yet was still considered the only one who can beat cell, despite losing to the cell jr. who piccolo can fight.
Yeah no, Goku was weakened, but even while weakened he was still relevant in the fight.
That wasn't stated. What was stated is that vegeta and trunks can fight back, not that piccolo doesn't stand a chance, he was clearly capable of fighting back.
 
Vizer04 said:
What? Goku is 1/10 of 2nd Form Frieza
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Yes, but your blog scales First Form Frieza to KK10 Goku, which is wrong, as Vegeta, who scales to this Frieza didn't dent an off guard Second Form Frieza, while Goku believed he could heavily assist against him, or at least do damage to him
 
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
Yes, but your blog scales First Form Frieza to KK10 Goku, which is wrong, as Vegeta, who scales to this Frieza didn't dent an off guard Second Form Frieza, while Goku believed he could heavily assist against him, or at least do damage to him
Click to expand...
That is an unquantifiable increase
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
That wasn't stated. What was stated is that vegeta and trunks can fight back, not that piccolo doesn't stand a chance, he was clearly capable of fighting back.
Click to expand...
Cell said only Vegeta and Trunks can hold their own, not fight them equally. Vegeta later states how he could have this much trouble against a Cell Jr.

And obviously by saying only Vegeta and Trunks can hold their own, that means Piccolo and the others can't, as if they could Cell would include them too
 
Antvasima said:
You all need to help out with deciding what to do here, so we can reach a final conclusion here. Alternately we could create a new revision thread relating to this and continue there instead.
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Not entirely sure what's being discussed atm, in regards to post-time chamber Piccolo I don't think there's much suggesting that Piccolo can fight the Cell Jrs. Most of that fight was off-screen, and Cell stated that since Goku was exhausted, Trunks and Vegeta were the only ones able to fight back. Sure Piccolo was on his feet the whole time, but all that means is that Piccolo did better than the human Z fighters, which seems obvious.
 
Vizer04 said:
That is an unquantifiable increase
Click to expand...
Wouldn't it be more sensible to scale Frieza to Goku with KK via their PL? As we know, the PL increase from Kaioken is linear, so the range between 90k to 900k should be linear as well, meaning that it there's no need to scale First Form Frieza to KK10 Goku
 
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
Wouldn't it be more sensible to scale Frieza to Goku with KK via their PL? As we know, the PL increase from Kaioken is linear, so the range between 90k to 900k should be linear as well, meaning that it there's no need to scale First Form Frieza to KK10 Goku
Click to expand...
That means we would scale an hypothetical KKx6 Goku above Frieza, we can't do that
 
GyroNutz said:
Not entirely sure what's being discussed atm, in regards to post-time chamber Piccolo I don't think there's much suggesting that Piccolo can fight the Cell Jrs. Most of that fight was off-screen, and Cell stated that since Goku was exhausted, Trunks and Vegeta were the only ones able to fight back. Sure Piccolo was on his feet the whole time, but all that means is that Piccolo did better than the human Z fighters, which seems obvious.
Click to expand...
Piccolo can hold his own and fight against the cell jrs which are matching Vegeta and Trunks who are both much stronger than they were against S-PC. Those same cell jr are also clapping fatigued Goku who could still push cell to fight properly and piccolo fought even better than Goku did.
 
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