Dragon Ball Z Manga Power Scaling

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

You, that is you. That is your name now.

1 minute end would yield 252x FTL, 30 seconds would be 505x FTL, 10 seconds would be 1516x FTL. All of which aren't really impressive when we're basically making an assumption with no basis, it's basically nothing compared to the multipliers though strangely consistent with Buu's feat. I will wait for the mods' opinions.

These could still be supporting feats. Especially since what they said they want is a MFTL+ feat for proof

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Still would only be, 100x lower then your og number. Still mftl I think

It'd be FTL+ actually

 

[ByAsura]

I don't necessarily agree or disagree with the game timeframe, but imagine if Cell's solar system bust took 8 minutes to even reach the sun, let alone 4 hours to engulf Neptune (potentially almost 5 since Pluto stopped being a planet in 2006). It's pretty unreasonable.

Also, it takes between 6 and 7 seconds to hit the sun in-game, not engulf the solar system. So that's 71-83 x SoL.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...eZ/Namek_Dragon_Balls_fly_from_Namek_to_Earth
I finished the namek dragon ball calculation.
What do you think asura man? You think we can scale Goku and freeza or anyone for that matter to this feat?

Sorry, I didn't see this for some reason.

Like I said, scaling him to the full value doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Also what is your opinion on the kid Buu speed feat? https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:FluffyCreatureZ/Kid_Buu_Speed_Feat

I'm just waiting on damage man or someone to evaluate these.

We don't really know enough of the context to say it's Buu's travel speed. It could be, but it's hard to say.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

I don't necessarily agree or disagree with the game timeframe, but imagine if Cell's solar system bust took 8 minutes to even reach the sun, let alone 4 hours to engulf Neptune (potentially almost 5 since Pluto stopped being a planet in 2006). It's pretty unreasonable.

I think we can try to assume a reasonable timeframe. The feat is implied to be pretty quick, so maybe 1 minute timeframe? Or 3 seconds?

Also, maybe I should use the distance to Pluto instead of Neptune since the manga eas released before Pluto got demoted to a dwarf planet

 

[ByAsura]

1 minute for the solar system seems assumptive, honestly.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

1 minute for the solar system seems assumptive, honestly.

So what would you suggest? Keep in mind that the feat is implied to be pretty fast

 

[Damage3245]

So what would you suggest? Keep in mind that the feat is implied to be pretty fast

Pretty fast based on what? That it could kill all the Z Fighters once he fired it? Considering they were at point-blank range in terms of "solar system" scale, it wouldn't need to be MFTL at all in order to kill them quickly.

 

[ByAsura]

I don't know. Nothing over 30 seconds will get an upgrade from Frieza's speed (15 seconds for Cell himself) if it's going to Pluto, so I don't think a timeframe matters that much.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

I don't know. Nothing over 30 seconds will get an upgrade from Frieza's speed (15 seconds for Cell himself) if it's going to Pluto, so I don't think a timeframe matters that much.

This can still be a supporting feat for the multiplier ratings. Even if it's not MFTL

Pretty fast based on what? That it could kill all the Z Fighters once he fired it? Considering they were at point-blank range in terms of "solar system" scale, it wouldn't need to be MFTL at all in order to kill them quickly.

Pretty sure that when he meant he'd obliterate the solar system he didn't meant "I'll destroy the Solar System but the blast will only actually destroy all of it in a day"

Usually in DB, explosions are happening pretty fast (for example, Frieza's feat of destroying Planet Vegeta, Buu destroying the Earth, Frieza destroying the Earth. Even Vegeta destroying Planet Aria in filler), so I would probably assume Cell's explosion will be no different, especially when we see it expanding fast in the game

 

[ByAsura]

Probably won't come to any particular ratings, and its premise alone relies on assumptions.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

I don't necessarily agree or disagree with the game timeframe, but imagine if Cell's solar system bust took 8 minutes to even reach the sun, let alone 4 hours to engulf Neptune (potentially almost 5 since Pluto stopped being a planet in 2006). It's pretty unreasonable.

Also, it takes between 6 and 7 seconds to hit the sun in-game, not engulf the solar system. So that's 71-83 x SoL.

Sorry, I didn't see this for some reason.

Like I said, scaling him to the full value doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

We don't really know enough of the context to say it's Buu's travel speed. It could be, but it's hard to say.

Do you have a way to scale them to even a portion of the value or to downscale from it at all?
About buu's feat, the anime shows that it is travel speed, and it cannot be anything otherwise, I'd say it's clearly travel speed, do you have anything else that would contradict it?

 

[ByAsura]

Do you have a way to scale them to even a portion of the value or to downscale from it at all?

Not sure.

About buu's feat, the anime shows that it is travel speed, and it cannot be anything otherwise, I'd say it's clearly travel speed, do you have anything else that would contradict it?

Evidence? I don't have the effort to go through so many episodes.

Plus, we don't even seem to apply the anime to the manga at all in Dragon Ball, unlike other series where it's used if it's not contradictory.

 

[ByAsura]

Ok, I checked the anime because I think there's only 1 episode with Bibidi, and I can't see any direct references to Buu being capable of interstellar travel.

It's implied he may have, but this is only based on him flying around places to kill more and more of the Kais. He's seen in the Kai's realm (which notably has a lot of very close planets with a ton of moons/satellites), and we don't know if he was even really going across interstellar distances. Although it's very likely due to the starry transitions.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Buu was also stated to be a threat to the universe. He would definitely not be able to be any sort of threat to the entire universe if he can't travel between Solar Systems

I mean, even if we assume a timeframe of a billion years for Buu to destroy every planet in the universe, then it'd be MFTL+

There are 10^25 planets esitamted in the universe

I'm gonna assume that the distance between the planets in each star system is the same as the distance from the Sun to Proxima Centauri, or 4.2465 Lightyears

Assuming there are 10 planets in each Soalr System, and that Buu destroys the system in one attack

T = 3.1556926 * 10^16 seconds

D = (5 * 10^12 * 4.2465) * 2 * 10^11 = 4.2465 * 10^24 lightyears

V = 4.2465 * 10^24 lightyears / 10^9 years = 4.2465 * 10^15 c, or MFTL+

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Not sure.

Evidence? I don't have the effort to go through so many episodes.

Plus, we don't even seem to apply the anime to the manga at all in Dragon Ball, unlike other series where it's used if it's not contradictory.

Do not worry, I got proof. When shin made that statement about the feat we see that there is a planet in ruins with dead life forms in it.

This means two things, Buu was in the living world destroying planets and not in the sacred world of kai's since the sacred world of kais do not have life forms except for kais and the second thing is that Buu was targeting planets with life on them which supports the High-End of the calculation.

What do you think about possibly downscaling Goku and Frieza from the dragon balls, Damaged man? Do you have a method?

 

[XXKINGXX69]

agree with the upgrades

 

[ByAsura]

Or it means Bibidi can switch between the realms like we see in the anime.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Or it means Bibidi can switch between the realms like we see in the anime.

Got proof for that?

 

[ByAsura]

We don't even see Buu travel anywhere in the manga. So it's kind of a non-argument.

If you just go by the anime, it's a combination both since he can't teleport until later and is shown to be in the Kai's realm.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

We don't even see Buu travel anywhere in the manga. So it's kind of a non-argument.

That's your proof for your claim? Since you provided none

 

[ByAsura]

Fluffy claimed the anime showed that it's travel speed. I'm saying that it could be, but we don't have enough context in that episode. Also, you missed the edit, but they were in the Kai Realm in the anime despite Buu not having instantaneous movement/instant transmission until he sees the Supreme Kai do it. So anime Bibidi 100% has instantaneous travel (we actually see him TP).

They then go onto claim that he's entirely destroying planets in the Living World during that timeframe, but we don't actually see Buu himself travel in the manga scan so it's a moot point.

That's what I'm trying to say.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

We don't even see Buu travel anywhere in the manga. So it's kind of a non-argument.

If you just go by the anime, it's a combination both since he can't teleport until later and is shown to be in the Kai's realm.

Do you know that the fight with buu in the sacred world is like, filler? That means that instead of Buu going to the sacred world, the kai's would've been the ones to go to the living world to stop buu, and then lost their lives, which wouldn't contradict anything in the story and would actually make more sense since the kai's can travel between worlds but we have no clue how buu or bibidi did so. This would mean that Buu is still destroying planets in the living world. And still, even if he did go to the supreme world of kai's it wouldn't invalidate the feat because 1. Buu was still targeting planets with life meaning he would still be in the living world destroying planets and 2. It would be pretty pathetic if it took buu years to destroy ONLY several hundreds of planets in a place filled with planets all in close proximity to each other.

 

[ByAsura]

Do you know that the fight with buu in the sacred world is like, filler?

You were going by the anime before. That's why I was arguing with the anime here.

That means that instead of Buu going to the sacred world, the kai's would've been the ones to go to the living world to stop buu, and then lost their lives, which wouldn't contradict anything in the story and would actually make more sense since the kai's can travel between worlds but we have no clue how buu or bibidi did so. This would mean that Buu is still destroying planets in the living world. And still, even if he did go to the supreme world of kai's it wouldn't invalidate the feat because 1. Buu was still targeting planets with life meaning he would still be in the living world destroying planets and 2.

So effectively, we don't know how Buu travelled to those planets, so the argument doesn't really matter.

It would be pretty pathetic if it took buu years to destroy ONLY several hundreds of planets in a place filled with planets all in close proximity to each other.

Not that it matters at this point, but it's not stated that every single planet in the Kai's realm is in close proximity. It's still 1/3rd the diameter of the normal universe (if not the entire living world, which includes the normal universe and demon realm).

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

calc

Bumping this

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

You were going by the anime before. That's why I was arguing with the anime here.

So effectively, we don't know how Buu travelled to those planets, so the argument doesn't really matter.

Not that it matters at this point, but it's not stated that every single planet in the Kai's realm is in close proximity. It's still 1/3rd the diameter of the normal universe (if not the entire living world, which includes the normal universe and demon realm).

I see, this feat doesn't work in the anime, but not like it matters because in the anime, the statement is literally said with Buu nuking a galaxy in the background.
Actually asura man, the only way Buu could have destroyed those planets is if he physically travelled to them, I proved this at the end of the 9th page, bibidi didn't help buu and buu didn't have IT and wasn't in the sacred world which means buu must have flown to each planet.
Not that it matters at this point but the sacred world of the kai's is like visually shown to be littered with planets, if buu had gone there then he would destroy a lot more planets in a few years.

 

[ByAsura]

I see, this feat doesn't work in the anime, but not like it matters because in the anime, the statement is literally said with Buu nuking a galaxy in the background.

You outright tried to apply Buu traveling in the anime to the manga. So it's a very different case, unless you're now trying to apply the galaxy feat to manga Buu.

Actually asura man, the only way Buu could have destroyed those planets is if he physically travelled to them, I proved this at the end of the 9th page, bibidi didn't help buu and buu didn't have IT and wasn't in the sacred world which means buu must have flown to each planet.

We don't even see Bibidi or Buu in that panel. You proved nothing, and we have no idea what mode of transportation they took.

Not that it matters at this point but the sacred world of the kai's is like visually shown to be littered with planets, if buu had gone there then he would destroy a lot more planets in a few years.

You said it would be pathetic. It probably isn't as bad as what you think is what I'm trying to say.

Also, I said not that it matters because those hundreds of planets probably aren't in the Kai's Realm anyway.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

You outright tried to apply Buu traveling in the anime to the manga. So it's a very different case, unless you're now trying to apply the galaxy feat to manga Buu.

We don't even see Bibidi or Buu in that panel. You proved nothing, and we have no idea what mode of transportation they took.

You said it would be pathetic. It probably isn't as bad as what you think is what I'm trying to say.

Also, I said not that it matters because those hundreds of planets probably aren't in the Kai's Realm anyway.

I applied it with the logic that if the anime interprets this feat as buu travel around then it would make sense if that were the case but fine I will quit using the anime.
There is no mode of transportation they could have taken except them feet. It's definitely not a space ship, no way a bloodlusted "too hard to control" monster riding that, Bibidi doesn't have teleportation in the manga and no other ways to transport buu, and not only that but the manga very blatantly states that buu was doing the feat single handedly and mentions no help from bibidi, in fact, it literally says bibidi couldn't control him and he was so strong that's why he sealed him, I also countered the sealing argument, and we know buu has no way of teleporting to places at the time meaning the only possible way that buu reached every planet was that he flew there. Any other explanation would require too many assumptions and the solution with least assumptions here is that Buu simply used them feet.
I'm glad we're on the same page about buu not being in the sacred world of kai's.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Buu can't also randomally teleport to wherever he wants either. He likely sensed Goku and Vegeta and teleported to them to fight them

 

[ByAsura]

There is no mode of transportation they could have taken except them feet. It's definitely not a space ship, no way a bloodlusted "too hard to control" monster riding that, Bibidi doesn't have teleportation in the manga and no other ways to transport buu, and not only that but the manga very blatantly states that buu was doing the feat single handedly and mentions no help from bibidi, in fact, it literally says bibidi couldn't control him and he was so strong that's why he sealed him, I also countered the sealing argument, and we know buu has no way of teleporting to places at the time meaning the only possible way that buu reached every planet was that he flew there.

First of all, nothing suggests he wouldn't have used a spaceship just because he's not fully under control or that Bibidi, someone whose powers Supreme Kai has called massive, can't teleport or use simply any other means of travel. This is all an assumption from you, and the fact that Buu didn't kill Bibidi kind of shows why this just isn't something we can handwave.

Secondly, what the Supreme Kai says is that he destroyed hundreds of planets in a few years. That's true. Nothing about that alludes to the distances travelled between, and destroying planets isn't the same thing as traveling between them, so it makes absolutely no sense to mention if Bibidi assisted him except if he helped destroy planets.

Third, we know that Babidi knew about both forms of Buu. So it entirely stands to reason that he has some form of superluminal travel, as even his far more powerful son didn't have remote control over Buu's actions. He could also control Dabura, which would quite possibly necessitate teleportation to get him out of the Demon Realm. There's just as much precedent for this kind of stuff as there is Buu performing a feat we don't see on screen.

The best assumption here is just not to make assumptions based on conjecture.

I will say, however, I am open to something like a possibly rating here.

Any other explanation would require too many assumptions and the solution with least assumptions here is that Buu simply used them feet.

Assuming he can travel interstellar distances when we haven't seen such a thing is inherently an assumption, my guy. There's no two ways about it.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

First of all, nothing suggests he wouldn't have used a spaceship just because he's not fully under control or that Bibidi, someone whose powers Supreme Kai has called massive, can't teleport or use simply any other means of travel. This is all an assumption from you, and the fact that Buu didn't kill Bibidi kind of shows why this just isn't something we can handwave.

Secondly, what the Supreme Kai says is that he destroyed hundreds of planets in a few years. That's true. Nothing about that alludes to the distances travelled between, and destroying planets isn't the same thing as traveling between them, so it makes absolutely no sense to mention if Bibidi assisted him except if he helped destroy planets.

The only way for Buu to destory hundreds of planets without traveling to them is by blowinh them up all at once. That can be calced, but you'd have to agree Buu will be 4-A

Third, we know that Babidi knew about both forms of Buu. So it entirely stands to reason that he has some form of superluminal travel, as even his far more powerful son didn't have remote control over Buu's actions.

So if Babidi couldn't control Kid Buu, what makes you think Bibidi can do it? Especially since Buu hates them and killed Babidi the first chance it got

He could also control Dabura, which would quite possibly necessitate teleportation to get him out of the Demon Realm. There's just as much precedent for this kind of stuff as there is Buu performing a feat we don't see on screen.

That's a baselss assumptions. Unless you got proof for that

Assuming he can travel interstellar distances when we haven't seen such a thing is inherently an assumption, my guy. There's no two ways about it.

How can Buu be a threat to the universe and not even capable of interstellar travel???

 

[ByAsura]

The only way for Buu to destory hundreds of planets without traveling to them is by blowinh them up all at once. That can be calced, but you'd have to agree Buu will be 4-A

I didn't say he couldn't travel from planet to planet.

So if Babidi couldn't control Kid Buu, what makes you think Bibidi can do it? Especially since Buu hates them and killed Babidi the first chance it got

I didn't say he could. I just said that doesn't discount him traveling from place to place via other means. Like moving him to wreck havoc anywhere he wants. The fact is, we just don't know what happened.

Like I said (you missed this edit), 'I am open to something like a possibly rating here.'

That's a baselss assumptions. Unless you got proof for that

So is him traveling from planet to planet in this scene here, unless you have proof for that.

How can Buu be a threat to the universe and not even capable of interstellar travel???

Weren't all of those claims made after he could teleport via Supreme Kai's technique, which isn't limited by distance?

Also, if we're using this one instead, let's just dump this calculation that doesn't even come close and is vague at best.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Weren't all of those claims made after he could teleport via Supreme Kai's technique, which isn't limited by distance?

Also, if we're using this one instead, let's just dump this calculation that doesn't even come close and is vague at best.

No. Supreme Kai said the was a threat to the universe in general. Not because of teleportation

 

[ByAsura]

I’m not on my computer, so could you show me the scan, or at least tell me the chapter number?

I could even get the raw tomorrow.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

I’m not on my computer, so can you could me the scan, or at least tell me the chapter number?

I could even get the raw tomorrow.

I'm also in mobile, so I'll get the scan later

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

First of all, nothing suggests he wouldn't have used a spaceship just because he's not fully under control or that Bibidi, someone whose powers Supreme Kai has called massive, can't teleport or use simply any other means of travel. This is all an assumption from you, and the fact that Buu didn't kill Bibidi kind of shows why this just isn't something we can handwave.

Secondly, what the Supreme Kai says is that he destroyed hundreds of planets in a few years. That's true. Nothing about that alludes to the distances travelled between, and destroying planets isn't the same thing as traveling between them, so it makes absolutely no sense to mention if Bibidi assisted him except if he helped destroy planets.

Third, we know that Babidi knew about both forms of Buu. So it entirely stands to reason that he has some form of superluminal travel, as even his far more powerful son didn't have remote control over Buu's actions. He could also control Dabura, which would quite possibly necessitate teleportation to get him out of the Demon Realm. There's just as much precedent for this kind of stuff as there is Buu performing a feat we don't see on screen.

The best assumption here is just not to make assumptions based on conjecture.

I will say, however, I am open to something like a possibly rating here.

Assuming he can travel interstellar distances when we haven't seen such a thing is inherently an assumption, my guy. There's no two ways about it.

Sorry but there is no way kid buu rode a space ship with bibidi. Just because shin called bididi's power massive (when did that even happen) doesn't mean he knows teleportation, that's just head canon. Kid Buu not killing bibidi is a good point, but it does not defeat my argument because bibidi could have easily just not encountered buu, which is consistent with bibidi being unable to control buu and supports buu traveling to each planet by walking.
Destroying planets requires you to go to each planet, (unless buu is 4-A which clearly is not true), so bibidi's help would include taking buu to each planet, but that is never stated and the opposite is. Also if they could just teleport, then they could have easily destroyed MUCH more than hundreds of planets in a few years. They could destroy hundreds of planets in a day if they could teleport to each one.
Next point is confusing, do you mean babidi knew about buu's forms or bibidi? if you mean babidi then babidi would have no reason to take into account kid buu's form since he's already tamable in fat form. If you mean bibidi then what? Bibidi only learned about fat Buu AFTER he already performed the feat.
This actually ties well into this point, bibidi only started taking buu to different planets after he performed the feat, after which bibidi realized buu was too strong to control and decided to seal him and take him to places himself, if he had a way to transport buu then he wouldn't need to seal him then take him to another destination.
Babidi getting dabura is unknown how he did it and it wouldn't apply to bibidi.
Not another possibly rating noooooooo.
My argument relies on the least amount of assumptions, actually there is no other way buu could have been transported to planets.

 

[God900]

Sorry if this isn't too releated to the thread.
But can someone send me the scans for manga Shockwaves that Goku and Beerus did?, I'm going to post them on the Calc thread.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Sorry if this isn't too releated to the thread.
But can someone send me the scans for manga Shockwaves that Goku and Beerus did?, I'm going to post them on the Calc thread.

 

[God900]

Wasn't there more pages featuring it?

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Wasn't there more pages featuring it?

No that's it. Also calc this.

He lights up outer space.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

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