Dragon Ball Upgrades for every Canon?

[AwkguyDB]

Lol, not a whole lot of major changes, save one but I'll get the appetizers out the way before we delve into the Meat and Potatoes.

DBH:

Demigra just recently added Chain Manipulation into his arsenal of hax (Pulled everyone out from Mechikabura's Black hole technique) see pictures for details.



DB(Toei):

Janemba has Weapon Mastery which is dandy and all but I think the fact that he just took one of the little old ogre maces lying around and turned it into a Double Edge Sword is most impressive. This would give him Weapon Creation for taking an object lying around and turning it into a weapon of his choosing.

DBGT:

I talked about this one before but it didn't get traction. SSJ4 Goku and Super 17 should have Danmaku
17's Super Blast Bomb:
Goku's SSJ4

It's practically the same reason why Toppo and Piccolo both have it.

Now for the Steak,

Super:

Anilaza should be Low 2-C based on how we treat Post UIS2 Goku. It's even explained in his Universal reasoning:

Universe level (Was overpowering SSJB Goku,who had broken his limits twice,.............)

Universe level+ as a Super Saiyan Blue (After breaking his limits by achieving Ultra Instinct -Sign- a second time, he managed to fight against Jiren, who was finally showing a hint of his full power)

The Injustice XD this is probably due to his profile being old honestly. Big Homie was forgotten in the mist of Dragon Ball breaking the Tier 2 system.


Anyways what do y'all think?

 

[Ionliosite]

Fully agreed on Low 2-C Anilaza, always seemed weird he wasn't given his reasoning.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

That Weapon Creation is just Matter Manipulation.

 

[ProudLearner]

1. Agree

2. Edit: That's Transmutation

3. Agree

4. This was talked about and rejected since it will upgrade a lot of characters to Low-2C.

Here Here Here Here

 

[Ionliosite]

4. This was talked about and rejected since it will upgrade a lot of characters to Low-2C.

Here Here Here Here

In that case, change the justification so Anilaza fighting a Low 2-C is not a part of his reasoning for being 3-A.

 

[ZERO7772]

I ironically agree with Anilaza.

 

[Dragomer]

I agree with all of that, especialy Anilaza.

 

[AwkguyDB]

1. Agree
2. Edit: That's Transmutation

3. Agree

4. This was talked about and rejected since it will upgrade a lot of characters to Low-2C.

Here Here Here Here

It's interesting

even in those threads some of, most of the information is kinda outdated. For Example in one of the threads it said that Anilaza is 3-A for the same reason Kelfa is 3-A which is funny because Kefla later got upgraded to Low 2-C.

Matthew even commented that he agrees with a At Least 3-A and he was advocating for UIS2 SSJB Goku to be 3-A

 

[ProudLearner]

Yeah they are outdated. Just posted them since those were their justification for their AP.

Maybe staff have change their minds after those threads were made.

Have you message any staff members to comment here?

 

[AwkguyDB]

Yeah they are outdated. Just posted them since those were their justification for their AP.
Maybe staff have change their minds after those threads were made.

Have you message any staff members to comment here?

Not yet about to though.

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

Demigra shoul also have light manipulation since he was granted it by the dark dragon to combat Mechikabura's negative energy

 

[Omegas03]

I dunno about Anilaza, SSB Goku's Low 2-C feats started at Episode 123 after powering up and surpassing his UIO1 from 110. Not 122 or below.

Upgrading Anilaza would also upgrade 17 and Gohan, which is not too far fetched. I personally believe 17 should be Low 2-C tbh. SSB Goku got Low 2-C for one showing and 17 got multiple against God Toppo and Jiren.

Not to derail or anything btw, but there's a thread for a small upgrade for SSJ Bardock, Chilled and post-Zenkai Base Goku at Namek also if yall want to check.

 

[ArgosaxDespair]

I think the reasoning behind Anilaza not being Low 2-C was because 17's barrier injured him, but I think 17's barrier should be Low 2-C due to the things he resisted, but not his overall rating tho.

And Anilaza is pretty much the only major and powerful character with a fixed physical weakness. Do we have hints or statements that the core on his head was actually weaker than his overall durability? Because that's usually what happens in "powerful villain, weak source of energy (core)" situations.

 

[Omegas03]

17's barrier has plenty of Low 2-C feats.

 

[Dragomer]

I think the reasoning behind Anilaza not being Low 2-C was because 17's barrier injured him, but I think 17's barrier should be Low 2-C due to the things he resisted, but not his overall rating tho.
And Anilaza is pretty much the only major and powerful character with a fixed physical weakness. Do we have hints or statements that the core on his head was actually weaker than his overall durability? Because that's usually what happens in "powerful villain, weak source of energy (core)" situations.

It's directly stated that it is his weak point, a weak point having as much durability as the rest of your body sound dumb.

Also 17's barrier later stopped an attacked from Jiren made to end Goku and Vegeta so yeah, 17's barrier harming Anilaza isn't an bad feat for him at all, 17's barrier are just consistently that strong, the decision was probably made before that episode and is thus outdated.

 

[Omegas03]

SSB Goku's max Low 2-C feats were done at the very last portion of Episode 123. So I dunno about Anilaza being Low 2-C, maybe Goku wasn't fully recovered at the time.

SSB Goku's Episode 122 showings which were after Anilaza weren't anything close to Low 2-C even.

Btw I think 17's barrier should be Low 2-C and I still don't know why it was rejected a lot of times when it has multiple feats on that level.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Low 2-C Frieza isn't farfetched, considering how fast his power can increase and how he handled Jiren, Toppo and Dyspo.

Android 17 being Low 2-C with barriers makes more sense than him suddenly becoming Low 2-C overall.

Gohan being Low 2-C is questionable. His best feat in the entire ToP is against Anilaza and Dyspo and was working with other potential Low 2-Cs in both fights. To add further, we have no reason to believe Dyspo is Low 2-C, but it seems like Dyspo's physicals weren't far from Gohan. Of course, Gohan has his meme potential and possibly Zenkai growth, so there is reason for him growing stronger over the course of the ToP (unlike 17).

I'm overall in agreement with Low 2-C Anilaza due to scaling with Post-UIS2 SSB Goku.

If Low 2-C Anilaza is accepted, another thread should be made regarding Low 2-C ToP keys for:

• SS1 Kefla (rivals Spirit Bomb, which challenged Jiren and awakened UIS. Both Low 2-C)

• Frieza (Anilaza, Dyspo (speed), Toppo and Jiren feats)

• 17 (Anilaza, Toppo and Jiren feats)

• Gohan (Anilaza feats)

• ToP SSB Vegeta (Anilaza and Jiren feats)

 

[Omegas03]

Vegito Blue should also be Low 2-C ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

 

[CryoTheMayo]

I mean, I consider Merged Zamasu becoming Low 2-C only after becoming Infinite Zamasu to be stupid. SS Rage Trunks, SSB Vegito and Merged Zamasu should all be Low 2-C IMO.

There is zero reason, at all, for me to think Zamasu suddenly leapt from 3-A to Low 2-C.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I share the same thoughts as ProudLearner, however I'm more neutral on Anilaza getting upgraded to Low 2-C, but given it was rejected in the past; I might learn towards not approving it. Will come back to discuss other details, but I should note that there's a limit to how many characters can get upgraded to Low 2-C.

 

[A_Stoned_Orc]

I definitely agree with 17 getting 3-A, Low 2-C with barriers on his profile.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

There is zero reason, at all, for me to think Zamasu suddenly leapt from 3-A to Low 2-C.

I mean, Fused Zamasu was 3-A since he scaled from the Super Saiyan Blues and Vegito Blue in his corrupt state, then jumped to Low 2-C because he merged with Future Trunks' timeline after he became incorporeal.

Of course, there are Low 2-C showings before that like Goku actually breaking Hit's Time Skip while in Super Saiyan Blue x10 Kaio-ken, Goku breaking the dimension of time that Hit created in that one episode after the Goku Black Saga, Goku Black cutting a whole in the fabric of spacetime to bring in more clones of himself with his scythe, but eh, they could all probably be debunked.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Alright, so Anilaza has easily stomped the combined might of SSG Goku, Ultimate Gohan, SS2 Vegeta, Android 17 and 18 (Who was easily eliminated). And he was a challenge for SSB Goku even after breaking his limits twice and even when he had help from Golden Frieza, SSB Vegeta, 17, and Golden Frieza.

But I think some others have said, Goku has not yet fully recovered during his fight with Anilaza. And he wasn't quite Low 2-C yet as he never fully recovered until him and Vegeta fought against Jiren. Plus he wasn't going all out in the team beam struggle based on what Dark649 and Matt said.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Agree.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

I'm implying Merged Zamasu was Low 2-C before he became Infinite Zamasu, due to there being no logical consistency in him leaping up an entire tier.

 

[Omegas03]

Could a possible 3-A upgrade for 18 and Ribrianne get added in the OP?

There are a lot of consistent 3-A showings for 18 and Ribrianne, I'll daresay even more so than U6 arc Piccolo and Frost. Even Frost didn't want to fight 18, 18 is consistently shown to be not thaaat far away from 17, helped against Anilaza, is shown to be above most of the Pride Troopers who gave trouble to Caulifla and Kale. Ribrianne has fought on par with Base Goku, SSJ Vegeta and 17 and even Goku used SSB against her one time, I'll say she along with 18 are rather consistent on 3-A showings.

Piccolo at U6 arc got upgraded to above BoG SSG level by a mere showing against Frost, and 18 has way more and better feats, 18 ain't weaker than U6 arc Piccolo and Frost.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

But I think some others have said, Goku has not yet fully recovered during his fight with Anilaza. And he wasn't quite Low 2-C yet as he never fully recovered until him and Vegeta fought against Jiren. Plus he wasn't going all out in the team beam struggle based on what Dark649 and Matt said.

Goku fought Jiren, far less than a minute after he fought Anilaza. It's the literal next episode, and episodes in the ToP only last a minute (with I think, one or two exceptions being two minutes).

While I'm aware the whole 'stamina recovery' thing is pretty inconsistent, I don't think it's fair to claim Goku leapt from 3-A to Low 2-C within seconds of fighting Anilaza, especially not when he was expending considrable energy in the beam struggle.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Actually, Frost and the other U6 fighters do have more showings of 3-A. Base Goku was much stronger then than he was when he fought Frieza, and his base form struggled to fight Frost's 2nd form. Wasn't till he went Super Saiyan is when he turned the tables. And Goku considered Frost to be stronger than base Frieza. And Magetta was legit quite strong given Vegeta never legit overpowered him in SSJ form. Piccolo was not only able to fight well against Frost's final form, but he later got even stronger as he trained Gohan. And now he's almost as strong as Ultimate Gohan.

18 is actually quite inconsistent. Sometimes she's kicking Krillin level fodder, but other times she's often needing to be rescued by 17. And 17 also holds back from time to time.

@Cyro, actually it was seeing Vegeta in action against Jiren is kind of what motivated Goku into his full recovery and thus his Super Zenkai boost.

 

[Omegas03]

I am talking specifically about U6 arc Piccolo. He fought with a rather weakened Frost (who was still at least stronger than Base Vegeta). Impressive and all, but 18 feats are way better imo. People say 18 has no reason to be Tier 3 because she hasn't trained but that is as logical as Piccolo getting from High 4-C to 3-A in almost no time passed, even U6 arc Gohan being stronger than Current 18 is so stupid tbh.

Yeah, 18 is quite inconsistent but I'll say she is just rather casual at the first part when she fought along with Krillin. I really doubt she just sits along with the other Humans in power when she has shown much more. She is stronger than the Pride Troopers (who for some reason are Tier 4), same guys who gave trouble to Kale and Caulifla. A High 4-C human wouldn't be able to perform nearly half of what 18 did.

I'll say her best showings are more than her worst ones and the worse ones can be even explained. At this point even Goku and Vegeta showings in Non Godly SSJ Forms are inconsistent.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

She's definitely far about the humans, but unlike Piccolo, who trained with Gohan to the point where even Goku was impressed by his massive power growth. 18 hasn't really trained at all aside from some occasional sparring with Krillin.

The Pride Troopers are also inconsistent; them giving casual Kale and Caulifa trouble was passed as PIS. And we kind of had many discussions about 3-A 18. I'm not personally against it, but many other staff members have constantly argued about that and would rather get into the crossfire.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

what motivated Goku into his full recovery

How do you motivate somebody into recovering their energy, to the extent that they leap from 3-A to Low 2-C?

thus his Super Zenkai boost.

You either gain that as you fight, or get it when your body has recovered. It functions similarly to Doomsday, a Saiyan's body rebuilds itself to avoid suffering lethal damage the same way twice.

 

[Omegas03]

@DDM

My point though was that Piccolo getting from High 4-C (way weaker than First Form Frieza) to 3-A (far stronger than SSG Goku) in the timespan from RoF arc to U6 arc via training with another High 4-C is almost as dumb as 18 getting 3-A from sparring with Krillin.

ToP Piccolo being 3-A is completely fine, but I am referring to U6-arc.

Yeah this could cause a shitstorm but I wanted to bring it anyway because Piccolo, Frost getting a 3-A pass while 18 and Ribrianne not is kinda iffy especially when Goku and Vegeta's Non Godly SSJ forms are inconsistent in general as well. At least 18 could get an possibly 3-A rating.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

There is a heavily case by case discussion rule for the reason regarding Goku and Vegeta's non Godly Ki forms. And 18 being universal would have made sense if Krillin also became Universal, but he's obviously not. Gohan and Piccolo on the other hand both trained each other very hard.

Also yes, Zenkais can happen when fatigue is recovered. And watching someone fight and gaining confidence and/or determination can heal fatigue. Poor writing yes, but it's still iffy. And Anilaza being Tier 2 would upgrade several characters to Tier 2 that have been rejected.

 

[Omegas03]

@Cyro

Goku's Low 2-C showings started at Episode 123 when Jiren powered up to the extent Belmod says Jiren hasn't used that amount of power in a long time, then Goku's response is powering up as well and clashes against the same Jiren until the latter decides to power up again. He likely didn't have that power when fighting against Anilaza, especially when he was explicitly shown to be recovering as he fights. And going from 3A to Low 2-C isn't far fetched because the gap isn't infinite in verse.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Also yes, Zenkais can happen when fatigue is recovered. And watching someone fight and gaining confidence and/or determination can heal fatigue. Poor writing yes, but it's still iffy. And Anilaza being Tier 2 would upgrade several characters to Tier 2 that have been rejected.

Can you show me where it's indicated that Goku grew stronger from watching Vegeta? Because, I'm rewatching this and Goku only seemed shocked at Vegeta's defeat, tried trickery to defeat Jiren and then was forced to fight a powered up Jiren toe-to-toe in Blue.

At no point does it seem to indicate Goku has grown stronger, more motivated or rested during or since Jiren fought Vegeta.

When Vegeta fights, it's constantly stated that he is growing due to his 'pride' or other such emotions, but there is no such case for Goku presented here.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

@Cyro
Goku's Low 2-C showings started at Episode 123 when Jiren powered up to the extent Belmod says Jiren hasn't used that amount of power in a long time, then Goku's response is powering up as well and clashes against the same Jiren until the latter decides to power up again. He likely didn't have that power when fighting against Anilaza, especially when he was explicitly shown to be recovering as he fights. And going from 3A to Low 2-C isn't far fetched because the gap isn't infinite in verse.

Except Jiren went BEYOND his Low 2-C power, that he used against UIS1 Goku. Hell, there is evidence that Post-UIS1 SSB Goku would be Low 2-C, considering Vados considers full power SSB Goku to be dangerous for SS1 Kefla, who was equal to the Spirit Bomb.

Post-UIS1 SSB Goku >/= SS1 Kefla = Spirit Bomb (which heavily challenged Jiren, who was the strongest energy ever felt).

Overall, it's likely that Goku was already Low 2-C against Kefla, and Jiren had to power up beyond that level to face Goku, meaning he was likely already fighting at a Low 2-C level prior to he and Goku powering up.

 

[Omegas03]

@DDM

That really leads to confusions tbh and I think a CRT could be made about it, many people are against 3-A Non Godly ssj forms, Frost, Cabba, etc (or at least agree with Upgrading characters such as 18 or Ribrianne). Even Caulifla had trouble against a supposedly High 4-C such as Napapa. Everyone showings are inconsistent, not only 18 or Ribrianne (or some of the High 4-C/3-As in general).

I stand by that 18 isn't being below U6 arc Piccolo and Gohan. And Krillin wouldn't be 3-A if 18 gets it because Krillin or the Humans in general ain't replicating 18's feats.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

It came from other staff members, not from me. However, SSJ Kefla being comparable to the Spirit Bomb was rejected, and Spirit Bomb being Low 2-C was also rejected. And even so, Anilaza being Low 2-C has still been rejected for multiple reasons.

 

[Omegas03]

@Cyro

Post UIO1 SSB Goku being Low 2-C or equal to the Spirit Bomb makes the scaling really confusing considering his SSBKKx20 would be stronger than UIO1 Goku. I'll say SSBKKx20 Goku post UIO1 is at most equal to the Spirit Bomb considering Kefla one shotted him.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

It came from other staff members, not from me. However, SSJ Kefla being comparable to the Spirit Bomb was rejected, and Spirit Bomb being Low 2-C was also rejected. And even so, Anilaza being Low 2-C has still been rejected for multiple reasons.

Why exactly was Kefla being comparable to the Spirit Bomb rejected? It's literally stated on her profile that her power should be comparable and it was Jiren's clash with the Spirit Bomb that caused Shin to claim Jiren had the strongest energy he ever felt.