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Dragon Ball Upgrades for every Canon?
- Thread starter AwkguyDB
- Start date
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Oh wait, she was comparable to the Spirit Bomb, nvm. But it was still both of them being Low 2-C that was rejected.
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No, it doesn't. Goku was on the verge of his limits and could only make a singular strike when he went Kaio-Ken.Omegas03 said:
Why are you assuming Goku went Kaio-Ken X20, when he could have gone X2, X3, X4 or X10? Goku being on the verge of collapse and then using X20 (which is heavily straining on his body outside of bursts) is ridiculous.
To add further, Vados was concerned over Goku Blue's full power. Her and Champa felt SS1 Kefla would fair fine, due to Goku's heavy exhaustion. Which was proven correct.
Peak SSB Goku > SS1 Kefla = Spirit Bomb = Exhausted SSBKK Goku > Infinite Zamasu
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The Spirit Bomb caused Jiren to struggle (who was said to have an energy unlike any before) and was also when Jiren struggled against the Spirit Bomb that Jiren was said to have energy unlike any before. Belmod and Kai were also concerned about the Spirit Bomb's power.Omegas03 said:
The Spirit Bomb was also the catalyst for Goku going UIS1, which is becoming Low 2-C.
Finally, a much stronger Goku was triggered into UIS2 by Kefla, who was stated to cause this by rivalling the Spirit Bomb.
I am sincerely curious about the justification to believe the Spirit Bomb isn't Low 2-C.
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"This power feels different from anyone we've ever faced before." from the very guy that was there for Infinite Zamasu. Jiren was surpassing Infinite Zamasu when he was resisting the Spirit Bomb.Omegas03 said:
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Jiren wasn't even moving at that point and just glared the Spirit Bomb away.
Prior to that he seemed to be struggling because he wasn't going at Low 2-C/above Infinite Zamasu output at that point.
Jiren (casual/against UIO1) >>>> Spirit Bomb >/= Jiren (very casual/against SSB Goku).
Prior to that he seemed to be struggling because he wasn't going at Low 2-C/above Infinite Zamasu output at that point.
Jiren (casual/against UIO1) >>>> Spirit Bomb >/= Jiren (very casual/against SSB Goku).
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Jiren wasn't even moving at that point and just glared the Spirit Bomb away.
And? Jiren was using the glare at the very end of the tournament. It's blatantly a technique, characters even consistently question what his glare even is.
Prior to that he seemed to be struggling because he wasn't going at Low 2-C/above Infinite Zamasu output at that point.
The way Shin was speaking, Jiren wasn't just 'above' Infinite Zamasu, he was at least considerably above Zamasu. To add further, the Spirit Bomb lasted a few more moments after Shin said this.
Jiren (casual/against UIO1) >>>> Spirit Bomb >/= Jiren (very casual/against SSB Goku).
The Spirit Bomb wasn't pushed away or destroyed by Jiren increasing his power. Vados even states the Spirit Bomb was reaching its limits due to the expansion of the energy between them.
Hell, if you want to argue it was Jiren that caused the Spirit Bomb to collapse we can see herethat Jiren widened his eyes just before the Spirit Bomb collapsed, and this was quite a while after Shin stated Jiren was 'unlike' any other power he had seen before.
If anything, Jiren powered up above Infinite Zamasu, the Spirit Bomb was only just reaching its limits and then Jiren powered up more to break said limits.
And? Jiren was using the glare at the very end of the tournament. It's blatantly a technique, characters even consistently question what his glare even is.
Prior to that he seemed to be struggling because he wasn't going at Low 2-C/above Infinite Zamasu output at that point.
The way Shin was speaking, Jiren wasn't just 'above' Infinite Zamasu, he was at least considerably above Zamasu. To add further, the Spirit Bomb lasted a few more moments after Shin said this.
Jiren (casual/against UIO1) >>>> Spirit Bomb >/= Jiren (very casual/against SSB Goku).
The Spirit Bomb wasn't pushed away or destroyed by Jiren increasing his power. Vados even states the Spirit Bomb was reaching its limits due to the expansion of the energy between them.
Hell, if you want to argue it was Jiren that caused the Spirit Bomb to collapse we can see herethat Jiren widened his eyes just before the Spirit Bomb collapsed, and this was quite a while after Shin stated Jiren was 'unlike' any other power he had seen before.
If anything, Jiren powered up above Infinite Zamasu, the Spirit Bomb was only just reaching its limits and then Jiren powered up more to break said limits.
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1. Agreed
2. Agreed its Transmutation and Weapon Creation
3. Agreed this would also go for Gogeta Toei and Xeno Goku?
I have no opinion on Anilaza
2. Agreed its Transmutation and Weapon Creation
3. Agreed this would also go for Gogeta Toei and Xeno Goku?
I have no opinion on Anilaza
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I have a Danmaku feat for Toei Vegeta
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- Thread starter
- #52
To be flat out honest,
The Spirit Bomb should be Baseline just like Infinite Zamasu. It's heavily implied that the amount of power that was in that Spirit Bomb would of worked on any villain that they faced, looking at the line up that's Merged Zamasu/IZ, Goku Black, Hit and U6 Warriors, and Golden Frieza. This makes reasonable sense too, It had power given from many top tier Super characters on the Dragon Team, notably Gohan, 17 and Frieza donated Genki to the Spirit Bomb. The Spirit Bomb, and Spirit Energy has even been shown to be even more powerful than fusion in the show times before, example Trunks Spirit Sword in the arc prior had enough energy to slice Zamasu into 2.
If the Spirit Bomb is Low 2-C, Who would get upgrades?:
SSJ Kefla (Should have an At least 3-A to Low 2-C)
If the Spirit Bomb was Low 2-C then Shin's and Whis' statements towards Jiren being the strongest have more weight. SSJ Kefla would also be rightfully Low 2-C since she bodied SSJBKKx20 Goku with a single kick. Her power was rising drastically and Whis stated that she even surpassed the Spirit Bomb. I think Whis using Goku's Spirit Bomb as a benchmark even solidifies the point that it deserves a Baseline rating.
SSJB Vegeta's Final Flash (SSJB Vegeta should be at Least 3-A, Low 2-C via Final Flash)
Both Goku who threw the Spirit Bomb and Belmod directly stated that his Final Flash has more power then the Spirit Bomb and there can even be a case where it even surpassed Omen 2 Goku since Belmod was shocked that he stated, "This is the power of a Saiyan?" Goku having fought Jiren before is even shocked that Vegeta was able to read Jiren's attacks, but if Jiren was holding back so much against Vegeta that he used less power than his initial fight with Goku, why would Goku be shocked that he was able to land a hit, he can read Jiren's power just fine and he's the one that tells us when Jiren displayed a hint of his true power.
Golden Frieza(For now an At least 3-A key is just fine for Frieza)
Not much to say for Frieza, he did eat Toppo's Hakai dead on and handled his own against Jiren decently albeit a weaker Jiren. I am fine with where he's at though we could make it At Least 3-A because of how much above baseline both Toppo and Jiren are.
17( 17 is 3-A but his Barriers should be Low 2-C)
This man has been through it all, he managed to help defeat Anilaza by figuring out his weak point and made past his blast of energy, funny enough when 17 smashed into Anilaza's head he actually put his barrier around his hand for his punch, maybe that could support his barriers have that sort of power. He took hits from GoD Toppo and took attacks that were even meant for SSJBE Vegeta from Jiren. NOT ADVOCATING HE'S ON THAT LEVEL, but theres obviously more to 17. Again his barrier and "Self Destruction" held back and stopped a Low 2-C attack.
And Anilaza, which I've explained above. Again a lot of the refutes against Anilaza back then were used against Kelfa and those were wrong.
so what's the TL;DR of all this?
'The Spirit Bomb should be Possibly Low 2-C' as Shin and Whis used it to judge Jiren's extremely casual power to be above IZ. In return all those who have feats and statements that would scale them higher than that Spirit Bomb should be Low 2-C which really isn't a lot of people. Those who have the potential to scale higher but don't have enough evidence (Goldey, Goheezy, Better than Apple) should have the at least 3-A rating for being able to hold their own against Low 2-Cs that scale way above Baseline.
The Spirit Bomb should be Baseline just like Infinite Zamasu. It's heavily implied that the amount of power that was in that Spirit Bomb would of worked on any villain that they faced, looking at the line up that's Merged Zamasu/IZ, Goku Black, Hit and U6 Warriors, and Golden Frieza. This makes reasonable sense too, It had power given from many top tier Super characters on the Dragon Team, notably Gohan, 17 and Frieza donated Genki to the Spirit Bomb. The Spirit Bomb, and Spirit Energy has even been shown to be even more powerful than fusion in the show times before, example Trunks Spirit Sword in the arc prior had enough energy to slice Zamasu into 2.
If the Spirit Bomb is Low 2-C, Who would get upgrades?:
SSJ Kefla (Should have an At least 3-A to Low 2-C)
If the Spirit Bomb was Low 2-C then Shin's and Whis' statements towards Jiren being the strongest have more weight. SSJ Kefla would also be rightfully Low 2-C since she bodied SSJBKKx20 Goku with a single kick. Her power was rising drastically and Whis stated that she even surpassed the Spirit Bomb. I think Whis using Goku's Spirit Bomb as a benchmark even solidifies the point that it deserves a Baseline rating.
SSJB Vegeta's Final Flash (SSJB Vegeta should be at Least 3-A, Low 2-C via Final Flash)
Both Goku who threw the Spirit Bomb and Belmod directly stated that his Final Flash has more power then the Spirit Bomb and there can even be a case where it even surpassed Omen 2 Goku since Belmod was shocked that he stated, "This is the power of a Saiyan?" Goku having fought Jiren before is even shocked that Vegeta was able to read Jiren's attacks, but if Jiren was holding back so much against Vegeta that he used less power than his initial fight with Goku, why would Goku be shocked that he was able to land a hit, he can read Jiren's power just fine and he's the one that tells us when Jiren displayed a hint of his true power.
Golden Frieza(For now an At least 3-A key is just fine for Frieza)
Not much to say for Frieza, he did eat Toppo's Hakai dead on and handled his own against Jiren decently albeit a weaker Jiren. I am fine with where he's at though we could make it At Least 3-A because of how much above baseline both Toppo and Jiren are.
17( 17 is 3-A but his Barriers should be Low 2-C)
This man has been through it all, he managed to help defeat Anilaza by figuring out his weak point and made past his blast of energy, funny enough when 17 smashed into Anilaza's head he actually put his barrier around his hand for his punch, maybe that could support his barriers have that sort of power. He took hits from GoD Toppo and took attacks that were even meant for SSJBE Vegeta from Jiren. NOT ADVOCATING HE'S ON THAT LEVEL, but theres obviously more to 17. Again his barrier and "Self Destruction" held back and stopped a Low 2-C attack.
And Anilaza, which I've explained above. Again a lot of the refutes against Anilaza back then were used against Kelfa and those were wrong.
so what's the TL;DR of all this?
'The Spirit Bomb should be Possibly Low 2-C' as Shin and Whis used it to judge Jiren's extremely casual power to be above IZ. In return all those who have feats and statements that would scale them higher than that Spirit Bomb should be Low 2-C which really isn't a lot of people. Those who have the potential to scale higher but don't have enough evidence (Goldey, Goheezy, Better than Apple) should have the at least 3-A rating for being able to hold their own against Low 2-Cs that scale way above Baseline.
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ProudLearner
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- #59
Reason why I say Weapon Creation specifically is based on our definition and what he did.AKM sama said:
The power to manifest and utilize weapons, whether this is from thin air, energy, or other materials in one's surroundings. A user may create a single weapo, or sets of them, potentially even creating and firing waves of weapons as projectiles.
The User (Janemba), created a single weapon (Double Edge Sword) from materials (Ogre Mace) in the surrounding area (Right in front of his foot)
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Ehhh. Redundant. Transmutation covers it.
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@Antvasima, of the 4 things in the OP. Demigra was agreed to have Chain Manipulation added. And Janemba already has weapon creation and transmutation so no changes needed. Danmaku for Android 17 and SSJ4 Goku also seemed self explanatory.
But the main thing was Anilaza. His Low 2-C upgrade was rejected, but it seems At least 3-A for taking on 5 really strong 3-A characters at once including Android 17 and SSB Goku (Who later became Low 2-C shortly after Anilaza was eliminated and Goku spared with Jiren) seems reasonable.
But the main thing was Anilaza. His Low 2-C upgrade was rejected, but it seems At least 3-A for taking on 5 really strong 3-A characters at once including Android 17 and SSB Goku (Who later became Low 2-C shortly after Anilaza was eliminated and Goku spared with Jiren) seems reasonable.
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Goku showed his Low 2-C powers only against Jiren later. There is no evidence he was using the same power against Anilaza since he was seen on pretty much the same grounds as the other four 3-A characters present there.AwkguyDB said:
Being even with five 3-As is still 3-A. The only way he gets an "At least 3-A" is if we assume Goku might have been going all out, which we disregard as reflected by his current rating.
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Actually, I agree with AKM Sama. I thought I misunderstood saying he agreed with that, but it was ProudLearner who suggested that. AKM simply said they needed some justifications altered.
ProudLearner
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I guess we can change Anilaza justification for 3-A.
What about A17?
He has fought supressed Jire in multiple occasions.
Should he get 3-A, possibly Low-2C?
Edit: I know we have been throught it last years CRT about it.
What about A17?
He has fought supressed Jire in multiple occasions.
Should he get 3-A, possibly Low-2C?
Edit: I know we have been throught it last years CRT about it.
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I only believe that 17 should get Possibly Low 2-C for his barriers.
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Would his barriers have Low 2-C AP? Because all he did was punch Anilaza. Is the the barriers doing? I agree on 17's barriers having Low 2-C Durability though.
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The only difference between "VS Anilaza" Goku and "VS Jiren alongside Vegeta" Goku was that Goku was using Kaioken
SSGSS Goku was visibly struggling alongside the rest of his team, and he didn't get any significant boosts or Zenkais between the 2 fights (other than Kaioken)
so unless you want to say that Kaioken can make a 3A character go Low 2C, SSGSS Goku should still be Low 2C, and Anilaza, as well as the other U7 fighters, should be Low 2C as well
SSGSS Goku was visibly struggling alongside the rest of his team, and he didn't get any significant boosts or Zenkais between the 2 fights (other than Kaioken)
so unless you want to say that Kaioken can make a 3A character go Low 2C, SSGSS Goku should still be Low 2C, and Anilaza, as well as the other U7 fighters, should be Low 2C as well
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Yeah, the Low 2-C barrier for 17 has also been discussed numerous times. And not even the bomb; given the fact that 17 tanks it, the AP of that bomb would have to be lower than his main durability. And Goku doesn't become Tier 2 in SSB until after Analiza is all well gone and he started fighting Jiren alongside Vegeta.
So, I'm for Anilaza's justification being elaborated, but I don't see him being anything beyond 3-A.
So, I'm for Anilaza's justification being elaborated, but I don't see him being anything beyond 3-A.
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