Dragon Ball Super: Universes/Timeline Tiering Revision

[Quantu]

So in this thread, the Room of Spirit and Time has been accepted as being a seperate structure outside of the universe. Now, this is a problem because we currently default the universes (which are affected by time travel) to separate space-times because the ROSAT is considered part of them in the first place.

Without proof that the individual universes can contain seperate Space-Times, the universes/macrocosms are reduced to 3-A, and the entire timeline potentially becomes Low 2-C.

This thread is to discuss if there is any further evidence that can be provided to prove that each universe is can be treated as Low 2-C and if not, whether a change in tiering is required following the last thread. As it stands, the cosmology is possibly in limbo because the current note uses the ROSAT as evidence for universes encompassing other space-times. So even if the universes/timeline remains the same tier, new justifications could still be needed.

Spoiler: Current Cosmology Note

We consider the universes in Dragon Ball alternate time-spaces relative to each other.... The reason for this is that Universe 7 by itself has already been shown to contain parallel space-time continuums within its globe, such as the Room of Spirit and Time, which is still affected by time travel; which proves that the new timelines can encompass other space-times as well, and thus the events in the Future Trunks Saga don't prove anything in the way of the universes being physically connected.

IF the cosmological structure is revised, it would likely lead to a downgrade of the cast. For example, Zen'o could become Low 2-C and every Universe Level + character could be downgraded to Universe Level. Or, a downgrade from the infamous "Half 2-C" AP could occur, with upscaling for Infinite Zamasu taking place. Basically, there could be some sort of change.

Agree with a change/downgrade: @Theglassman12 , @Planck69 , @Maverick_Zero_X

Disagree with changes: @DarkDragonMedeus

 

[ImmortalDread]

Following

 

[Omegabronic]

following, someone should contact some staff

also, for everyone here, remember to be civil, just a reminder since this topic will be controversial i feel

 

[ImmortalDread]

following, someone should contact some staff

also, for everyone here, remember to be civil, just a reminder since this topic will be controversial i feel

@Crabwhale someone mention peace, we need war instead

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I'm totally against it, so I disagree.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Also, even if it is from other thread, it is better to put all evidences in OP

 

[sanicspood]

followung

 

[Omegabronic]

I'm totally against it, so I disagree.

i think you need to give reasoning for it to count, don't know if it is a rule or anything tho

 

[Omegabronic]

@Crabwhale someone mention peace, we need war instead

nah, war is overrated

 

[Hasty12345]

I wholeheartedly agree with this thread. None of the universes are treated as separate spacetimes in any capacity, and are actually portrayed in a way directly opposed to this idea.

 

[Anime_Facts]

It is not necessary for ROSAT to be within universe 7 for the argument to work, it just needs to be within the timeline, and there is no evidence that it is not, there are no time rings referring to ROSAT

 

[Omegabronic]

It is not necessary for ROSAT to be within universe 7 for the argument to work, it just needs to be within the timeline

without it being within universe 7, now there is no reason to even assume that it is affected by time travel, which was why the other universes where considered space time besides them all being equally affected by time travel

, and there is no evidence that it is not

timeline is a space time, another space time would not be part of it, but as said above, that doesn't affect much

, there are no time rings referring to ROSAT

the rosat is not a timeline, i don't see why the time rings matter here

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

The important part in the note was the fact that Time Travel encompassed parallel space times. with the example being the ROSAT. it being within U7 or not is completely irrelevant.

The location of the ROSAT wasn't, and isn't relevant whatsoever. Idk why people are focusing on that.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

without it being within universe 7, now there is no reason to even assume that it is affected by time travel, which was why the other universes where considered space time besides them all being equally affected by time travel


timeline is a space time, another space time would not be part of it, but as said above, that doesn't affect much


the rosat is not a timeline, i don't see why the time rings matter here

Wouldn’t that mean it’s encompassed by a timeline if there’s no time ring of it

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

It’s either the RoSaT is encompassed within a timeline or it is it’s own timeline

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

It’s either the RoSaT is encompassed within a timeline or it is it’s own timeline

That. However, the latter completely contradicts the fundamental mechanics of the Dragon Ball cosmology.

 

[Omegabronic]

Wouldn’t that mean it’s encompassed by a timeline if there’s no time ring of it

what?

The important part in the note was the fact that Time Travel encompassed parallel space times. with the example being the ROSAT. it being within U7 or not is completely irrelevant.

The location of the ROSAT wasn't, and isn't relevant whatsoever. Idk why people are focusing on that.

being in universe 7 was the whole for the assumption that other space-time were affected in the first place, you would need to show evidence of space times being affected, if not we can't assume that the other universes are space-times

It’s either the RoSaT is encompassed within a timeline or it is it’s own timeline

it is an Earth sized dimension with a different space-time, alternate space time=/=alternate timeline

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

being in universe 7 was the whole for the assumption that other space-time were affected in the first place, you would need to show evidence of space times being affected, if not we can't assume that the other universes are space-times

It wasn't.

The point was :

"The ROSAT is a parallel space time, yet it's still affected by Time travel. Hence, we can't use the universes being copied as a counterargument"

Universe 7 being mentioned was only for emphasis, but the argument works fine without it because the ROSAT being a separate space time IS what you need to debunk.

 

[ImmortalDread]

alternate space time=/=alternate timeline

Huh? Space-time continuum is treated same as timeline in this wiki

 

[Omegabronic]

It wasn't.

The point was :

"The ROSAT is a parallel space time, yet it's still affected by Time travel. Hence, we can't use the universes being copied as a counterargument"

Universe 7 being mentioned was only for emphasis, but the argument works fine without it because the ROSAT being a separate space time IS what you need to debunk.

no? we only assumed that it was affected because it was considered part of universe 7, without it there is literraly 0 basis to say that it was affected in the first place, meaning that there is no proof of multiple space times existing within a timeline, specially since if they were, and now, they have no reason be affected if they are other space times + that being illogical in the first place

 

[Omegabronic]

Huh? Space-time continuum is treated same as timeline in this wiki

not really? a timeline is always a space-time, but a space time is not always a timeline, for example of db, a timeline consists of all 12 universes and are created when someone time travels, the rosat is its own thing

 

[ImmortalDread]

I am not arguing for the latter, but a timeline is treated the same as space-time continuum in wiki, whether you like it or not. And for the latter, the universes will be 3-A in this case.

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

The scene with Frieza implies that places in the same space would be considered part of the universe and to not exist in the universe it has to be a different dimension (as is the standard in like almost, every story). That would apply to the other universes by being considered different universes too.

 

[Omegabronic]

I am not arguing for the latter, but a timeline is treated the same as space-time continuum in wiki, whether you like it or not. And for the latter, the universes will be 3-A in this case.

oh i know, just saying that the rosat is not a timelime by db standards

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

no? we only assumed that it was affected because it was considered part of universe 7, without it there is literraly 0 basis to say that it was affected in the first place, meaning that there is no proof of multiple space times existing within a timeline, specially since if they were, and now, they have no reason be affected if they are other space times + that being illogical in the first place

No, Universe 7 was pure emphasis. Look :

If the ROSAT were to be located somewhere else, it would be still part of the bigger timeline.

And so, you'd still have a space time within a space time. Which is perfectly possible.

And now, the lower space time's history (the ROSAT's history) is still subjected to the influence of the higher time stream, so whatever happens to the bigger space time influences everything else. Copying, Destroying, etc. Your argument completely contradicts the very logic of the verse.

These are known, on this wiki, as "Hypertimelines".

And since someone brought it up before : No, they're not Low 1-C by default.


And btw, the same stuff applies to Frieza's dimension, unless we have proof it's located in some alternative timeline.

 

[Omegabronic]

The scene with Frieza implies that places in the same space would be considered part of the universe and to not exist in the universe it has to be a different dimension (as is the standard in like almost, every story). That would apply to the other universes by being considered different universes too.

different universes, but not different space times, the rosat being inside the universe was why we assumed that it was affected by trunks' time travel, without it we no reason to assume it was and no reason to assume other space times can be affected in db, so the other universes are not space times

 

[Antvasima]

@DarkDragonMedeus @SamanPatou @Starter_Pack @Elizhaa @Maverick_Zero_X @DemonGodMitchAubin

Your help would be appreciated here.

 

[Omegabronic]

No, Universe 7 was pure emphasis. Look :

If the ROSAT were to be located somewhere else, it would be still part of the bigger timeline.

And so, you'd still have a timeline within a timeline. Which is perfectly possible.

the rosat is not a timeline, it is an earth sized pocket dimension,

And now, the lower space time's history (the ROSAT's history) is still subjected to the influence of the higher time stream, so whatever happens to the bigger space time influences everything else. Copying, Destroying, etc.

do you have proof of this being the case in db?

And btw, the same applies to Frieza's dimension, unless we have proof it's located in some alternative timeline.

this dimension doesn't matter for this thread, it was part of the other thread that made the rosat not be part of the universe, it is not relevant here

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

different universes, but not different space times, the rosat being inside the universe was why we assumed that it was affected by trunks' time travel, without it we no reason to assume it was and no reason to assume other space times can be affected in db, so the other universes are not space times

The point is that the scene establishes the other universes as different dimensions from Universe 7, because what happens is that before even any mention of a RoSaT, the idea is that Frieza didn't exist in the universe due to being in different dimension, which clearly lays down that places that share the same space are considered part of the same universe and being independent of U7 warrants dimensional separation, so entirely different universes get defaulted to being different dimensions from U7.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

the rosat is not a timeline, it is an earth sized pocket dimension,


do you have proof of this being the case in db?

this dimension doesn't matter for this thread, it was part of the other thread that made the rosat not be part of the universe, it is not relevant here

The size doesn’t matter its it’s own space time proving space times can encompass other space timed

 

[Omegabronic]

The point is that the scene establishes the other universes as different dimensions from Universe 7, because what happens is that before even any mention of a RoSaT, the idea is that Frieza didn't exist in the universe due to being in different dimension, which clearly lays down that places that share the same space are considered part of the same universe and being independent of U7 warrants dimensional separation, so entirely different universes get defaulted to being different dimensions from U7.

when did anyone said anything about them not being different dimensions? the point is about them not being different space times

The size doesn’t matter its it’s own space time proving space times can encompass other space timed

when did anyone said the opposite? you guys are confusing things, since now there no reason to assume that the rosat was affected, meaning that now there is no reason to assume that other space-times are affect in db's time travel, meaning that now there is no reason to assume that the other universes are other space times

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

when did anyone said anything about them not being different dimensions? the point is about them not being different space times

Pretty sure different dimension and spacetime is synonymous, no?

 

[ImmortalDread]

No

 

[Omegabronic]

Pretty sure different dimension and spacetime is synonymous, no?

not at all, different spaces with the same time

if that was the case db would be 2-C since BoG

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

when did anyone said the opposite? you guys are confusing things, since now there no reason to assume that the rosat was affected, meaning that now there is no reason to assume that other space-times are affect in db's time travel, meaning that now there is no reason to assume that the other universes are other space times

That's a completely bulk logic. Even if you discard Hypertimelines (the proof for their existence you've asked for is the mere existence of the ROSAT, a space time, inside a bigger space time).

Second point : the way the Dragon Ball multiverse works contradicts your logic. We know that the history in Goku Black's timeline of origin was the same as the main timeline's , which implies the ROSAT is present within alternative timelines as well (people have clearly trained there before).

So no matter how you look at it, your argument does not work.

 

[Omegabronic]

That's a completely bulk logic. Even if you discard Hypertimelines (the proof you've asked for is the mere existence of the ROSAT, a space time, inside a bigger space time).

this is not the proof i asked, there is no evidence that the rosat was affected nor that it is inside the timeline

The way the Dragon Ball multiverse works contradicts your logic. We know that the history in Goku Black's timeline of origin was the same as the main timeline's , which implies the ROSAT is present within alternative timelines as well.

no, it implies that there are multiples similar dimension like the rosat, which is backed up by the super manga, and that other timelines access them

So no matter how you look at it, your argument does not work.

read above

 

[RedReaper616]

I think it should also be noted that the RoSaT is not a singular time dimension that exists within the DB Cosmology. According to Frieza, he got in 10 years. Now, the rate of which the HTC he use’s isn’t explained to us, so I’m not gonna reference him, but it’s explicitly noted to us in Moro Arc that different HTCs have different rates of acceleration, and while not elaborated on placement, they are definitively “cut off from the outside world.”

So there is bare minimum more than 1 RoSaT dimension, rather than multiple entrances to the same RoSaT.

Also, Bronic, uh…no? Goku Black’s past is identical to the past of the main timeline, with one point in time altered that lead to his existence that creates a living paradox sustained by his Time Ring. It’s not a different RoSaT or gateway in any way.

 

[Hasty12345]

Pretty sure different dimension and spacetime is synonymous, no?

not at all

 

[Omegabronic]

Also, Bronic, uh…no? Goku Black’s past is identical to the past of the main timeline, with one point in time altered that lead to his existence that creates a living paradox sustained by his Time Ring. It’s not a different RoSaT or gateway in any way.

i was just saying that it doesn't prove that the rosat was affected, since multiple of them exist

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

no, it implies that there are multiples similar dimension like the rosat, which is backed up by the super manga, and that other timelines access them

Do you even know how branching timelines work? Because your comment tells me that you don't.