Dragon Ball Super - Jiren and Co. Upgrade via Void Scaling

[ZillertheBucko]

If only we had some kind of standard explaining specifically why we can’t use destruction of things of an unknown dura for scaling AP
Hmmmm

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

You explained why it doesn’t have dura and then said “so it has some kind of dura”
Either way there’s nothing to suggest the hypothetical dura of the thing is anything near 2-C

You didn't understand my point at all.

Being empty space and lacking spatial dimensions are completely separate features.

 

[ImmortalDread]

If only we had some kind of standard explaining specifically why we can’t use destruction of things of an unknown dura for scaling AP
Hmmmm

You brought a brilliant idea, go ahead to staff discussion and create CRT

 

[Darksmash]

You brought a brilliant idea, go ahead to staff discussion and create CRT

 

[Maitreya12]

Agree: @Maitreya @The_real_cal_howard @LordTracer @XSOULOFCINDERX @Reiner @Zamasu_Chan @Fastestthingalive50 @Eseseso @luis3333 @ShakeResounding @DarkDragonMedeus @DarlingAurora @Sus @Lormac_CC @ObberGobb @Spinoirr @GodlyCharmander @BOEGVELD @Quantu @Lord_Farquaad69420 @FluffyCreatureZ @Apex_Predator_GX @CryoTheMayo

Disagree: @ZillertheBucko @Purgy @AguilaR202 @God900 @Darksmash @Dread @Yohata @SirAlex09

Neutral: @KLOL506 @thetechmaster36 @Nullflowerblush @HammerStrikes219 @Rikimarox2 @DivineAura44 @Zencha9 @Aachintya31

Ok this is all who I have so far.

Let me know if these are your correct positions or if I’m missing anyone

 

[ZillertheBucko]

You brought a brilliant idea, go ahead to staff discussion and create CRT

Wait I was being sarcastic but I thought we had a DC page, the only thing we have is a section in the AP page
“An alternative term for Destructive Capacity which has more direct meaning: The Destructive Capacity that an attack is equivalent to. A character with a certain degree of attack potency does not necessarily need to cause destructive feats on that level, but can cause damage to characters that can withstand such forces. As such it isn't proof of a low attack potency, if a character's attacks only cause a small amount of destruction.”

 

[Maitreya12]

Yes that’s what we call a high 3-A feat

And if the structure can withstand 2C energies without shaking, then shaking it is a 2C feat.

DC vs AP
it’s not consistent, and it doesn’t matter who shakes what if the feat itself isn’t 2-C

Yeah it would be since the feat is based upon how it’s the equivalent of the GOD’s fighting and resulting in 2 universes being destroyed, which is a 2C feat.

This is still unrelated to the world of void feat, which is still not 2-C

The feat would be 2C under that notion yes and that wasn’t the point of me bringing those other things up. They were simply meant to establish how this notion of them being 2C is supported within the series itself considering the fact that 2 GOD’s fighting results in a 2C feat and Jiren and Goku both have supporting evidence indicating they were GOD level and above even when heavily surpassed.

The point is that the notion is not unfounded and supported in the series itself.

 

[God900]

Agree: @Maitreya @The_real_cal_howard @LordTracer @XSOULOFCINDERX @Reiner @Zamasu_Chan @Fastestthingalive50 @Eseseso @luis3333 @ShakeResounding @DarkDragonMedeus @DarlingAurora @Sus @Lormac_CC @ObberGobb @Spinoirr @GodlyCharmander @BOEGVELD @Quantu @Lord_Farquaad69420 @FluffyCreatureZ

Disagree: @ZillertheBucko @Purgy @AguilaR202 @God900 @Darksmash

Neutral: @KLOL506 @thetechmaster36 @Nullflowerblush @HammerStrikes219 @Rikimarox2 @DivineAura44 @Zencha9

Ok this is all who I have so far.

Let me know if these are your correct positions or if I’m missing anyone

I can't believe already 3 Staffs agreed with this........

 

[Aachintya31]

Ok so a destruction God in training Toppo was able to do something casually which 3 GoDs weren't able to do at full power
Interesting.

 

[God900]

And if the structure can withstand 2C energies without shaking, then shaking it is a 2C feat.

You Lost me there, dude, it's an infinite nonexistent void. There is nothing of dura about it......tf

 

[Maitreya12]

I can't believe already 3 Staffs agreed with this........

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

 

[Maitreya12]

You Lost me there, dude, it's an infinite nonexistent void. There is nothing of dura about it......tf

An empty space still has durability.

The universe is essentially an empty space.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Agree: @Maitreya @The_real_cal_howard @LordTracer @XSOULOFCINDERX @Reiner @Zamasu_Chan @Fastestthingalive50 @Eseseso @luis3333 @ShakeResounding @DarkDragonMedeus @DarlingAurora @Sus @Lormac_CC @ObberGobb @Spinoirr @GodlyCharmander @BOEGVELD @Quantu @Lord_Farquaad69420 @FluffyCreatureZ

Disagree: @ZillertheBucko @Purgy @AguilaR202 @God900 @Darksmash

Neutral: @KLOL506 @thetechmaster36 @Nullflowerblush @HammerStrikes219 @Rikimarox2 @DivineAura44 @Zencha9

Ok this is all who I have so far.

Let me know if these are your correct positions or if I’m missing anyone

I also agree with this.

 

[Yohata]

Using your logic
Ssj god (red ) >>>> ssj blue
Since goku affected the universe with ssj god and merely affected a planet fighting frieza with ssj blue

 

[Sus]

Using your logic
Ssj god (red ) >>>> ssj blue
Since goku affected the universe with ssj god and merely affected a planet fighting frieza with ssj blue

This was responded to already, alot

Can people stop repeating the same 3 arguments all over again?

Btw, im back

 

[ZillertheBucko]

And if the structure can withstand 2C energies without shaking, then shaking it is a 2C feat.

no because it is ******* massive, and dragon ball characters are literally never doing this
if that was the case then every time goku fights on earth, he should be shaking the entire earth, but the earth can take hits from him without shaking, let alone an infinite empty space
this. is. goofy.

 

[Aachintya31]

CAN THIS BE DONE THROUGH QUICKLY THERE HAS BEEN ENOUGH STAFF AS WELL AS REGULAR MEMBER AGREEMENT
we should not ignore blatant feat.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

CAN THIS BE DONE THROUGH QUICKLY THERE HAS BEEN ENOUGH STAFF AS WELL AS REGULAR MEMBER AGREEMENT
we should not ignore blatant feat.

the logic is objectively incorrect, so no, this is not allowed to go through

 

[Sus]

no because it is ******* massive, and dragon ball characters are literally never doing this
if that was the case then every time goku fights on earth, he should be shaking the entire earth, but the earth can take hits from him without shaking, let alone an infinite empty space
this. is. goofy.

Its hilarious because this was answered so many times

Stop Repeating the exact same argument i beg you

 

[Aachintya31]

no because it is ******* massive, and dragon ball characters are literally never doing this
if that was the case then every time goku fights on earth, he should be shaking the entire earth, but the earth can take hits from him without shaking, let alone an infinite empty space
this. is. goofy.

You are indirectly proposing goku is below planet level
Need more solid statements.
You can try with something like 18 Detecting shaking of a 2C structure

the logic is objectively incorrect, so no, this is not allowed to go through

Lmao

 

[Sus]

objectively

 

[Maitreya12]

no because it is ******* massive, and dragon ball characters are literally never doing this
if that was the case then every time goku fights on earth, he should be shaking the entire earth, but the earth can take hits from him without shaking, let alone an infinite empty space
this. is. goofy.

The issue with your logic here is that you’re talking about instances where ki control is a viable option. The same cannot be said here because GOD’s either have poor ki control in general or as they power up their ki control becomes significantly worse considering the fact that they can’t control their ki enough to stop 2 whole universes from being destroyed.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Its hilarious because this was answered so many times

Stop Repeating the exact same argument i beg you

it's hilarious cause I haven't seen a single valid counterargument yet
I get that you guys have been saying a lot of stuff in response, but the valid part is more important than the saying stuff part
maybe if you gave a good argument (or gave up) then I wouldn't have to repeat myself

 

[Aachintya31]

Where did the shaking the void statement came from?

 

[Darksmash]

Wait, is it said anywhere that the 3 GoDs did not shake the void?

 

[Sus]

it's hilarious cause I haven't seen a single valid counterargument yet
I get that you guys have been saying a lot of stuff in response, but the valid part is more important than the saying stuff part
maybe if you gave a good argument (or gave up) then I wouldn't have to repeat myself

We explained why the stupid "but goku didn't destroy earth" argument makes no sense, we also explained why the gods did NOT replicate what goku did

I don't understand what do you want to hear

 

[Yohata]

Give me one evidence that the gods can't shake the world of void

Not shaking it doesn't mean they can't especially in DB

 

[ZillertheBucko]

You are indirectly proposing goku is below planet level

NO I AM NOT, YOU'RE MISSING THE ENTIRE GOD DAMN POINT OF WHAT I SAID
I am saying that using destruction feats in this way is stupid and completely fallacious. Planet level characters almost never destroy planets, universal characters barely even destroy buildings, so a god of destruction not shaking the world of void is literally NOTHING for scaling, it means nothing at all
just because someone uses less DC than another, doesn't mean their AP is lower, but the entire basis of the thread relies on the idea that AP and DC are the exact same. IT'S GOOFY

 

[God900]

Wait, is it said anywhere that the 3 GoDs did not shake the void?

Nah, someone above said that 3 Gods could destroy an equivalent of 3 Universes tho

 

[Sus]

Wait, is it said anywhere that the 3 GoDs did not shake the void?

After seeing the aftermath, the grand priest said that its ok and only needs to be fixed on some parts, implying that the clash didn't cause significant damage (such as threatening the entire structure)

 

[Darksmash]

After seeing the aftermath, the grand priest said that its ok and only needs to be fixed on some parts, implying that the clash didn't cause significant damage (such as threatening the entire structure)

I mean Jiren and Goku never threatened the whole structure either. They simply shook it.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

We explai-

THIS DOES NOT NARROW IT DOWN
everything you have said on this thread so far has been completely wrong, so why don't you show me the message in which you explain what you think is correct, so I can tell you why it's wrong

 

[Sus]

I mean Jiren and Goku never threatened the whole structure either. They simply shook it.

Which is more than the minor inconvenience the gods did

 

[Aachintya31]

After seeing the aftermath, the grand priest said that its ok and only needs to be fixed on some parts, implying that the clash didn't cause significant damage (such as threatening the entire structure)

Bruh the shaking of void statement was said by Android 18
Is it reliable?

 

[Sus]

THIS DOES NOT NARROW IT DOWN
everything you have said on this thread so far has been completely wrong, so why don't you show me the message in which you explain what you think is correct, so I can tell you why it's wrong

Ah yes ignore everything i said and just say im wrong giving 0 ******* explanation

 

[Maitreya12]

Give me one evidence that the gods can't shake the world of void

Not shaking it doesn't mean they can't especially in DB

1) Is there any proof the WoV was shaken in their fight?
2) Even if they did. That means to shake the WoV is equivalent to 3 GOD’s fighting which supersedes the required output of 2 GOD’s to perform the 2C feat. All that means is that instead of 3 GOD’s being < WoV shaking, they’d just be = to it which the 2C logic still applies.

 

[Darksmash]

Which is more than the minor inconvenience the gods did

Is it an inconvenience though? It was simply an observation and awe at their power. I don't remember it ever being seen as something to be worried about.

 

[God900]

Which is more than the minor inconvenience the gods did

Again. Any actual proof that the Gods used explicitly their "100%" or just suggestions?

"Taking it too far" is not even an argument, as it's too vague

 

[Sus]

Is it an inconvenience though? It was simply an observation and awe at their power. I don't remember it ever being seen as something to be worried about.

Exactly...

 

[DivineAura44]

I agree.
More evidence: whis confirms the rumor that jiren surpasses the GoDs in his most suppressed state pre omen 1 fight.
"I dare say... like a GoD. He is the one who reached that state, perhaps even surpassed it."
Also I see claims that the world of void was only shaken by both Goku and jiren. But this is wrong. The moment jiren starts walking, the world of void shakes and Goku is in base form.

So because Goku is in base he has no ki? That's just not the case.