Dragon Ball Super - Jiren and Co. Upgrade via Void Scaling

[CryoTheMayo]

Not even a single person has created a legitimate argument for the GoDs holding back. Meanwhile we have multiple statements indicating the GoDS were trying to test the durability, were trying to impress Zeno and demonstrate superiority over the other universes and a Supreme Kai stating they went overkill.

Unless someone can provide SOMETHING to indicate the GoDs held back I don't see how this upgrade could be contested. Especially when the arguments starting up again are just the same logic already argued over hundreds of posts.

 

[Reiner04]

Supreme Kai stating they went overkill.

Just to go more than what is required to test durability of stage that indicates.
Nothing much.

 

[JOLTxx]

You all saying THEY NEED NOT GO FULL POWER IS HYPOCRITAL. Otherwise during the baseball match, they engaged in a bloody combat ,nothing happened. If beerus and champa fought each other holding back , this would make universe 7 2-C , which is false. Saying angels stopped is the same case here, grand priest stopped them.

It's not hypocritical, it's fact. Bloody combat or not, just them throwing hands will endanger two universes.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Just to go more than what is required to test durability of stage that indicates.
Nothing much.

It doesn't matter, it's just another statement across multiple statements illustrating they used more power than they were meant to. Somebody actually show something that has them state or indicate they held back. If there's no actual evidence of it, then it's just an empty claim.

 

[KLOL506]

Why is the stage being mentioned again? It is completely irrelevant to the thread at hand.

 

[Reiner04]

It doesn't matter, it's just another statement across multiple statements illustrating they used more power than they were meant to. Somebody actually show something that has them state or indicate they held back. If there's no actual evidence of it, then it's just an empty claim.

Then it doesn't matter.

 

[Reiner04]

Why is the stage being mentioned again? It is completely irrelevant to the thread at hand.

Considering entire fight was just for it.

 

[Aachintya31]

It's not hypocritical, it's fact. Bloody combat or not, just them throwing hands will endanger two universes.

Its hypocritical in the sense, this is not full power. U7 and U6 weren't even remotely closed to be destroyed at the baseball match. Bloody combat implies its their full power and the near limit of their durability.

 

[JOLTxx]

Its hypocritical in the sense, this is not full power. U7 and U6 weren't even remotely closed to be destroyed at the baseball match. Bloody combat implies its their full power and the near limit of their durability.

Yet not at full power their fight was still endangering both universes. At what makes you think they were fighting at full power at the baseball match?

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Then it doesn't matter.

Given it's another contributing statement yes, it does matter.

 

[Damage3245]

Whis & Vados in that clip say "Their combat will inevitably lead to the destruction of the Universes" but that doesn't indicate it will happen immediately, or with a single powerful attack.

 

[Aachintya31]

At what makes you think they were fighting at full power at the baseball match?

The simple fact they became bruised and bloody.Its more evident than trying to prove zeno or proving superiority.

 

[Hasty12345]

Whis & Vados in that clip say "Their combat will inevitably lead to the destruction of the Universes" but that doesn't indicate it will happen immediately, or with a single powerful attack.

Is this the exact wording of the statement that the agreeing side are using to say “2 GoDs will destroy their universes?”

 

[Aachintya31]

Whis & Vados in that clip say "Their combat will inevitably lead to the destruction of the Universes" but that doesn't indicate it will happen immediately, or with a single powerful attack.

Yes. This doesn't make WoV remotely 2-C.

 

[Reiner04]

Its hypocritical in the sense, this is not full power. U7 and U6 weren't even remotely closed to be destroyed at the baseball match. Bloody combat implies its their full power and the near limit of their durability

Bloody, bruised, angry not caring anymore of anything or not under zeno eyes to holdback to do anything reckless? Typically way more than what wov point have for them to go all out.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Whis & Vados in that clip say "Their combat will inevitably lead to the destruction of the Universes" but that doesn't indicate it will happen immediately, or with a single powerful attack.

As far as I'm aware, timeframes don't really change anything in Tier 2

 

[JOLTxx]

Its hypocritical in the sense, this is not full power. U7 and U6 weren't even remotely closed to be destroyed at the baseball match. Bloody combat implies its their full power and the near limit of their durability.

Again they don't need to be at full power to destroy the universe. And the same should go for champa as well. It's no wonder if both fight their universes would be destroyed in the process regardless of bloody combat or not, they're forbidden to engage in any form of combat

 

[Aachintya31]

That's an overtime thing but still considered scalable to their AP because of tier 2 metaphysical interactions. However this shouldn't scale to actual cosmology of WoV.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Whis & Vados in that clip say "Their combat will inevitably lead to the destruction of the Universes" but that doesn't indicate it will happen immediately, or with a single powerful attack.

So what are you implying they were going to do? Fly to Universe 6 to destroy it? How are their attacks reaching other universes from Universe 7?

 

[Hasty12345]

As far as I'm aware, timeframes don't really change anything in Tier 2

Maybe not, but how it’s done IS important.

 

[Reiner04]

Given it's another contributing statement yes, it does matter.

I said it's just referred to them going more than what is necessary for testing durability of stage, you said it doesn't matter. We both are pretty clear to use this anymore. So the statement doesn't contribute in anyway

 

[JOLTxx]

The simple fact they became bruised and bloody.Its more evident than trying to prove zeno or proving superiority.

Zeno is revered and feared by the gods... I'd say it's more evident for them to go full power to please zeno than that little scuffle at the baseball game

 

[AKM sama]

If your whole argument is that the GoDs were going all out to test the stage and hence they should be used for scaling, then the stage inherently becomes EXTREMELY relevant point of discussion.

 

[Reiner04]

Zeno is revered and feared by the gods... I'd say it's more evident for them to go full power to please zeno than that little scuffle at the baseball game

Why would god's do anything reckless then? Rather than what is told to.
This indeed contrabitue that they weren't going all out to destroy wov.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

I said it's just referred to them going more than what is necessary for testing durability of stage, you said it doesn't matter. We both are pretty clear to use this anymore.

I'm arguing about people claiming the GoDs held back. If they went 'overkill' in the test, then by definition they were using more strength than required for the test. In other words, evidence that they weren't holding back properly. From that point alone we establish they weren't restraining in their fight. It's a statement that should be acknowledged.

Again, I haven't seen anyone post anything that indicates the GoDs held back to any significant extent. Hell, no real evidence they held back at all.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

If your whole argument is that the GoDs were going all out to test the stage and hence they should be used for scaling, then the stage inherently becomes EXTREMELY relevant point of discussion.

It's a good thing that Goku vs Beerus established their destructive clashes caused waves that would eventually destroy the universe then. Like the focal point of the fight isn't in immediate danger...like the entire point of holding the ToP in the WoV in the first place was so it wouldn't risk universes to fight.

 

[Reiner04]

I'm arguing about people claiming the GoDs held back. If they went 'overkill' in the test, then by definition they were using more strength than required for the test

Until this part we share same thought.

Again, I haven't seen anyone post anything that indicates the GoDs held back to any significant extent. Hell, no real evidence they held back at all.

You doesn't seem to be active enough here to realise that.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Until this part we share same thought.

You doesn't seem to be active enough here to realise that.

Well go ahead and post me something. I've been reading every single post in this entire discussion. Not a single person has demonstrated the GoDs were holding back. Just baseless claims.

 

[JOLTxx]

Whis & Vados in that clip say "Their combat will inevitably lead to the destruction of the Universes" but that doesn't indicate it will happen immediately, or with a single powerful attack.

Since when were timeframes relevant in tier 2? And Beerus is already implied to be able to destroy U7 with a single attack, the same should go for champa as well. Notice how they've never been shown to fight with ki attacks?

 

[JOLTxx]

Yes. This doesn't make WoV remotely 2-C.

It does. 3 gods fought in WOV and posed no apparent or significant effect to WOV unlike 2 gods fighting would to U6&7

 

[JOLTxx]

Why would god's do anything reckless then? Rather than what is told to.
This indeed contrabitue that they weren't going all out to destroy wov.

Even if they weren't intending to destroy WOV, their fight should've affected WOV significantly. When Beerus and champa fought, they weren't intending to destroy their universes yet it was getting affected.

 

[Aachintya31]

D[Q

If they went 'overkill' in the test, then by definition they were using more strength than required for the test. In other words, evidence that they weren't holding back properly.

Dude they could have blinked the stage with EE like toppo did. They didn't go all out.

Zeno is revered and feared by the gods... I'd say it's more evident for them to go full power to please zeno

They don't need to go full power. As much they have observed in the zeno expo. More power doesn't mean more enjoyment for the Omni king.

THE FACT THAT THE RING WAS NOT COMPLETELY ANNIHILATED BY THE BLAST IT IMPLIES IT'S NOT FULL POWER. 2C power = complete destruction of area within 2-C range

It does. 3 gods fought in WOV and posed no apparent or significant effect to WOV unlike 2 gods fighting would to U6&7

Beerus and champa didn't posed any significant damage to U6 and U7 despite going all bloody. I am sick of repeating this .

Since when were timeframes relevant in tier 2

They became relevant as soon as you start scaling cosmology of an area to 2-C.

 

[Aachintya31]

I am tired. Let the God tiers of this wiki decide what to do.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

The WoV is also a world of nothingness. There's nothing in there that would get destroyed, so that's not evidence for 2-C

Besides, there's no reason to assume they went all out (and thus leading to 2-C), when the GP only asked them to test the arena

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Dude they could have blinked the stage with EE like toppo did. They didn't go all out.

And when could Toppo 'blink' the stage away with EE? You got a statement with a character saying he nearly did that? That's not even going into the part where you can't even demonstrate that Toppo isn't stronger than them in the first place but I'll digress, that opens another can of worms that people struggle to get into.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

The WoV is also a world of nothingness. There's nothing in there that would get destroyed, so that's not evidence for 2-C

Besides, there's no reason to assume they went all out (and thus leading to 2-C), when the GP only asked them to test the arena

The upgrade's premise is that it requires 2-C power to shake the WoV because 2 GoDs fighting results in multiple universes going poof, yet three GoDs fought and didn't shake the WoV.

So it has nothing at all to do with destroying anything. Just the realm being shaken.

 

[Reiner04]

I mean, just looking at the video linked in the OP, you can see that none of the GoDs fighting were even out of breath let alone had a scratch. I'm surprised so many people agreed to it.

If your whole argument is that the GoDs were going all out to test the stage and hence they should be used for scaling, then the stage inherently becomes EXTREMELY relevant point of discussion.

Why would god's do anything reckless then? Rather than what is told to.
This indeed contrabitue that they weren't going all out to destroy wov.

The number of attacks don't matter.... what? If an attack with X amount of energy was able to damage the ring, and another energy attack was also able to damage the ring almost to the same extent, it should be around X.

The simple fact they became bruised and bloody.Its more evident than trying to prove zeno or proving superiority

@CryoTheMayo feel free to read all of them and Don't bother counter because even if you did, it still will be you performing burden of proof fallacy by saying "it is this because you can't prove otherwise".

 

[JOLTxx]

They don't need to go full power. As much they have observed in the zeno expo. More power doesn't mean more enjoyment for the Omni king.

You mind explaining this to them then?

THE FACT THAT THE RING WAS NOT COMPLETELY ANNIHILATED BY THE BLAST IT IMPLIES IT'S NOT FULL POWER.

Again the ring isn't relevant in this scaling. Idk why it keeps getting brought up, something that was getting destroyed by the shockwaves of their fists

Beerus and champa didn't posed any significant damage to U6 and U7 despite going all bloody. I am sick of repeating this .

They did in every instance that they fought it was shown how the universe started corroding or becoming unstable. And this was just physical combat without any ki attacks.

They became relevant as soon as you start scaling cosmology of an area to 2-C.

No they don't... Destroying or significantly affecting any 2-C structure in finite time is still regarded as 2-C

 

[CryoTheMayo]

feel free to read all of them and Don't bother counter because even if you did, it still will be you performing burden of proof fallacy by saying "it is this because you can't prove otherwise".

tl;dr no evidence and points argued hundreds of posts ago that went nowhere

 

[JOLTxx]

I am tired. Let the God tiers of this wiki decide what to do.

Tbh... Same