Dragon Ball Super - Jiren and Co. Upgrade via Void Scaling

[DivineAura44]

No they never destroyed the universe despite them going all out. Reality shattering is just in reference to them breaking into another dimension

Broly is valid he stated to be stronger than jiren

Nah Jiren solos

 

[Hasty12345]

so do we scale everyone who damaged the stage to 2-C given the stage withstood 2-C amounts of energy?

 

[Reio35]

Because it wouldn't make sense. The whole purpose was to test the durability of something. Why would they make it so it wouldn't be affected? They weren't looking for a fight. They were looking to test the stage.

It's confirmed by beerus the gods have ultra ego forms which they never used in that fight. Granted it's manga only

 

[Hasty12345]

I fail to see how we can say the GoDs have 0 ki control then say the stage isn’t 2-C. So I propose fatigued base Goku be 2-C for doing more damage to the stage than the 3 GoDs did.

 

[DivineAura44]

I fail to see how we can say the GoDs have 0 ki control then say the stage isn’t 2-C. So I propose fatigued base Goku be 2-C for doing more damage to the stage than the 3 GoDs did.

The stage would have worn down overtime.

 

[KLOL506]

No they never destroyed the universe despite them going all out. Reality shattering is just in reference to them breaking into another dimension

That's like saying "Beerus and Goku never destroyed the Universe so they're not Universe level". This is the dumbest argument against OP that I have ever seen in my life.

YOU DO NOT NEED TO DESTROY TO SCALE. JUST SIGNIFICANTLY AFFECT OR ALTER IT IN ANY SHAPE OR FORM. THAT'S WHY YOU CAN BE BELOW THE BASELINE OF TIER 2 AND YOU'D STILL BE WITHIN THAT SAME TIER. TIER 2 DOESN'T OPERATE ON THE SAME ENERGY JOULE METRIC AS TIER 3 AND BELOW.

 

[DivineAura44]

It's confirmed by beerus the gods have ultra ego forms which they never used in that fight. Granted it's manga only

If you know it was manga only why was this brung up?

 

[KLOL506]

It's confirmed by beerus the gods have ultra ego forms which they never used in that fight. Granted it's manga only

FOR THE LAST TIME, THIS IS NOT MANGA. THIS IS ANIME. STOP BRINGING IN MANGA STUFF INTO ANIME.

 

[Hasty12345]

The stage would have worn down overtime.

But you concede at one point the stage had 2-C durability?

 

[DivineAura44]

But you concede at one point the stage had 2-C durability?

I guess that would be fair, yes.

 

[LordTracer]

Wasn’t the shit about the stage already discussed?

 

[Hasty12345]

I guess that would be fair, yes.

So how are you going to argue a bunch of finite 3D characters could wear down a 2-C stage?

 

[Hasty12345]

Wasn’t the shit about the stage already discussed?

Idk, this thread went from 1 to 6 pages overnight, I’d happily be deferred to the relevant comments.

 

[DivineAura44]

So how are you going to argue a bunch of finite 3D characters could wear down a 2-C stage?

They weren't finite 3-D?

 

[thetechmaster36]

I fail to see how we can say the GoDs have 0 ki control then say the stage isn’t 2-C. So I propose fatigued base Goku be 2-C for doing more damage to the stage than the 3 GoDs did.

Are we seriously talking about the stage again?

It literally means nothing, we are not saying the stage is 2-C, lest we consider everyone who breaks or heavily damages a part of the stage to be 2-C as well, which would severely **** up the scaling and create so many inconsistencies that it's not even funny.

 

[Hasty12345]

Are we seriously talking about the stage again?

It literally means nothing, we are not saying the stage is 2-C, lest we consider everyone who breaks or heavily damages a part of the stage to be 2-C as well, which would severely **** up the scaling and create so many inconsistencies that it's not even funny.

So stage isn’t 2-C but GoDs have no ki control and their power extended out to the WoV and couldn’t perform any noticeable feat? So everywhere in the WoV is 2-C except the stage which their jobs was to try and destroy/damage?

this sounds like the most ridiculous argument that could be made.

 

[DivineAura44]

Are we seriously talking about the stage again?

It literally means nothing, we are not saying the stage is 2-C, lest we consider everyone who breaks or heavily damages a part of the stage to be 2-C as well, which would severely **** up the scaling and create so many inconsistencies that it's not even funny.

Then you'd be asserting the combined capacity of the gods isn't 2-C.

 

[Hasty12345]

Like can we actually just make Beerus and Champa’s 2-C feat 2-C? Why are we sitting here arguing this garbage?

 

[DivineAura44]

So stage isn’t 2-C but GoDs have no ki control and their power extended out to the WoV and couldn’t perform any noticeable feat? So everywhere in the WoV is 2-C except the stage which their jobs was to try and destroy/damage?

this sounds like the most ridiculous argument that could be made.

Why do you think the characters who wore it down were finite 3-D?

 

[Hasty12345]

Why do you think the characters who wore it down were finite 3-D?

Because we see characters who aren’t currently rated 2-C do more damage to the stage than the GoDs did, like Kefla, and base Goku, Frieza and Jiren (worn out).

 

[Maitreya12]

That's like saying "Beerus and Goku never destroyed the Universe so they're not Universe level". This is the dumbest argument against OP that I have ever seen in my life.

YOU DO NOT NEED TO DESTROY TO SCALE. JUST SIGNIFICANTLY AFFECT OR ALTER IT IN ANY SHAPE OR FORM. THAT'S WHY YOU CAN BE BELOW THE BASELINE OF TIER 2 AND YOU'D STILL BE WITHIN THAT SAME TIER. TIER 2 DOESN'T OPERATE ON THE SAME ENERGY JOULE METRIC AS TIER 3 AND BELOW.

My guy, my dude, my brother in Christ. I get it. I do.

….But just give yourself a hot minute from this thread rn. It’s over, it’s done. No arguments need to be had anymore.

 

[Maitreya12]

Anyways the stage argument is kind of like “why didn’t earth blow up when goku and Beerus fought” when they had universal AP and energy being thrown around. They really just go from 0 to 100 real quick.

 

[DivineAura44]

Because we see characters who aren’t currently rated 2-C do more damage to the stage than the GoDs did, like Kefla, and base Goku, Frieza and Jiren (worn out).

Yeah ofc they aren't currently rated 2-C. Virtually no one is. Base Goku, Frieza, and Jiren would have no problems breaking the stage after their stronger forms already weakened it.

 

[DivineAura44]

Anyways the stage argument is kind of like “why didn’t earth blow up when goku and Beerus fought” when they had universal AP and energy being thrown around. They really just go from 0 to 100 real quick.

Uh no it's not. That's just wrong. Those are 2 different problems with 2 different solutions.

 

[thetechmaster36]

So stage isn’t 2-C but GoDs have no ki control and their power extended out to the WoV and couldn’t perform any noticeable feat? So everywhere in the WoV is 2-C except the stage which their jobs was to try and destroy/damage?

Unless you want characters like Tien to end up being 2-C for breaking parts of the arena - which is completely illogical because that'd be the equivalent of scaling him to the GoDs, something that is never portrayed as such in any sense - the arena isn't 2-C. We see the arena getting ****** up multiple times in the battle between the three GoDs like it's a wet piece of paper. Hell, literally them punching IN THE AIR causes it to break apart into rubble. That in no way means that the arena is 2-C. Like, at all. Gimme one good reason why it should be that way.

Then you'd be asserting the combined capacity of the gods isn't 2-C.

Cool strawman lol

 

[Hasty12345]

Anyways the stage argument is kind of like “why didn’t earth blow up when goku and Beerus fought” when they had universal AP and energy being thrown around. They really just go from 0 to 100 real quick.

This isn’t an AP vs DC argument. The upgrade side is saying the GoDs CANNOT hold back, yet they couldn’t destroy the stage, AND you’re arguing they couldn’t effect the WoV. This is incoherent.

Beerus and Goku’s clash had Goku attempt to nullify the energy, and no other relevant counter argument fight included a GoD.

 

[Maitreya12]

Uh no it's not. That's just wrong. Those are 2 different problems with 2 different solutions.

….no actually they’re not. In fact it’s probably the most analogous example in the series itself.

2 GOD’s fighting results in 2 universes being destroyed because they lack fundamental ki control that mitigates their power from spreading across 2 universes.

Goku and Beerus fighting results in the universe being destroyed because they lack fundamental ki control that mitigates their power from spreading across the universe.

Goku’s solution to this was refining his ki control mid battle so he could neutralize the shockwaves being omitted from the clash. Goku just got better at using ki control during the fight.

These are perfectly analogous situations with an established answer in the series being the solution to said situations.

 

[Hasty12345]

Unless you want characters like Tien to end up being 2-C for breaking parts of the arena - which is completely illogical because that'd be the equivalent of scaling him to the GoDs, something that is never portrayed as such in any sense - the arena isn't 2-C. We see the arena getting ****** up multiple times in the battle between the three GoDs like it's a wet piece of paper. Hell, literally them punching IN THE AIR causes it to break apart into rubble. That in no way means that the arena is 2-C. Like, at all. Gimme one good reason why it should be that way.

Cool strawman lol

They literally have 2-C feats by the upgrades logic. So yes, I think they should be 2-C. No point in only going half way with the logic, it applies to everyone at the ToP. Not just those who you want upgraded.

 

[Hasty12345]

I can’t believe mods would soon rather let this be 2-C than an actual 2-C feat.

 

[Maitreya12]

This isn’t an AP vs DC argument. The upgrade side is saying the GoDs CANNOT hold back, yet they couldn’t destroy the stage, AND you’re arguing they couldn’t effect the WoV. This is incoherent.

Beerus and Goku’s clash had Goku attempt to nullify the energy, and no other relevant counter argument fight included a GoD.

….Yes the solution was ki control. But the GOD’s cannot do what goku did which results in the 2 universes being destroyed. Because they lack fundamental ki control that would prevent it from happening. The WoV withstanding 3 GOD’s fighting means it’s above the 2C feat.

It could either be all together or as they power up the GOD’s lose their ability to control their ki properly but the analogy remains the same.

 

[Reio35]

When beerus and champ were fighting they were only destroying the matter in the universe overtime. Possibly space-time as well.

The 3 gods fighting in the world of void only destroyed part of the stage. Tho we don't know if they can also destroy the world of void over time as well.


Topo and vegeta also destroyed a much larger portion of the stage then all 3 gods combined. Does that mean they also should upscale?

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

I can’t believe mods would soon rather let this be 2-C than an actual 2-C feat.

Huh? What 2-C feat?

 

[Maitreya12]

I can’t believe mods would soon rather let this be 2-C than an actual 2-C feat.

it would be a 2C feat though because the WoV can withstand 2C energy.

 

[DivineAura44]

….Yes the solution was ki control. But the GOD’s cannot do what goku did which results in the 2 universes being destroyed. Because they lack fundamental ki control that would prevent it from happening. The WoV withstanding 3 GOD’s fighting means it’s above the 2C feat.

It could either be all together or as they power up the GOD’s lose their ability to control their ki properly but the analogy remains the same.

We have been through this. Why are the GoDs using ki control if they WANT to destroy the stage...

 

[Maitreya12]

We have been through this. Why are the GoDs using ki control if they WANT to destroy the stage...

….what?

 

[DivineAura44]

I can’t believe mods would soon rather let this be 2-C than an actual 2-C feat.

Or maybe, just maybe, characters who scale to 2-C worn down the stage. I also wanna remind you that you'd be asserting the author is aware of the difference between 2-C and 3-A, which is dangerous territory.

 

[thetechmaster36]

They literally have 2-C feats by the upgrades logic. So yes, I think they should be 2-C. No point in only going half way with the logic, it applies to everyone at the ToP. Not just those who you want upgraded.

No, they do not, and your entire argument falls apart if you literally just watch the fight. The arena breaks very easily, and we can see that in the aftermath where there are rocks and dust littered everywhere across it. I guess we should treat the ground in the final part of the Gohan vs. Cell fight as 4-B because the Kamehameha clash couldn't expand much further after a little bit.

And like I said, if we are treating the arena as 2-C, we are treating the characters who break apart larger portions of it as comparable to the GoDs because their fight ended up tearing away at the arena. Base Goku comparable to the GoDs? Tien? Do you not see the inconsistencies in that sort of scaling?

Regardless, it's getting late here, so I'm gonna dip for the night.

 

[Reio35]

Or maybe, just maybe, characters who scale to 2-C worn down the stage. I also wanna remind you that you'd be asserting the author is aware of the difference between 2-C and 3-A, which is dangerous territory.

Their were characters destroying parts of the stage before goku even got ultra instinct

 

[Maitreya12]

Can this be closed now since it’s long since been argued and well goes over what’s needed to approve?

 

[ZillertheBucko]

So stage isn’t 2-C but GoDs have no ki control and their power extended out to the WoV and couldn’t perform any noticeable feat? So everywhere in the WoV is 2-C except the stage which their jobs was to try and destroy/damage?

this sounds like the most ridiculous argument that could be made.

this is exactly the point I made, and still stand by
which didn't work clearly so
let the L thread be an L thread, the staff decide all regardless of what logic dictates, and that's not changing, so just give it up