Dragon Ball Super Goku Profile Revision

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Calm down. This is not an attempt to change Goku's tier or anything. That is staying as is. The problem I have is with the structure of the profile itself.

To put it lightly, the current way that Goku's power is described in it is terrible. As you can see, it is all contained in only two Keys, both of which are ridiculously rambly and fuse and combine multiple Story Arcs and Power Arms into one thing.

The entire reason that Dragon Ball Super's Goku was given a separate profile was to allow for a better explanation of his power progression across each arc, which evidently was not done at all. Goku's profile should be broken down into Keys, for better readability and comprehension.

I have discussed this with The Everlasting, who also agrees with me, and this is what we've come up with:

Attack Potency: Universe level (As a Super Saiyan God, fought with a suppressed Beerus, and their clash both shook and threatened to destroy the universe. Absorbed a significant portion of his God Ki into his base form, and became capable of facing Beerus as a regular Super Saiyan. Later became much stronger by training with Whis and unlocking Super Saiyan Blue) | Universe level (Significantly grew in power over several years of training. Capable of enhancing his strength tenfold with Super Saiyan Blue Kaio-Ken x10) | Universe level (Comparable to Vegeta at this time, who managed to dominate Super Saiyan Rosé Goku Black after training extensively. Also capable of maintaining Super Saiyan Blue Kaio-Ken x20) | Universe level+ (Traded blows with a heavily suppressed Jiren, and shook the whole World of Void with his Ki alone. While Jiren was holding back, he was repeatedly described as the strongest enemy that Universe 7 had ever faced, and thus superior to Infinite Zamasu) | Universe level+ (After breaking his limits by achieving Ultra Instinct -Sign- a second time, he managed to fight against Jiren, who was finally showing a hint of his full power) | Universe level+ (Fought Jiren at full power even after Jiren broke his own limits, and managed to defeat him after becoming enraged)

Keys: Battle of Gods Saga/Resurrection F Saga | Universe 6 Saga | Future Trunks Saga/Universe Survival Saga (Pre-Ultra Instinct -Sign-) | Ultra Instinct -Sign- | Super Saiyan Blue (Post-Ultra Instinct -Sign-) | Mastered Ultra Instinct

Feel free to discuss any potential changes or additions.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Since I helped do this, I obviously agree.

 

[ALRF]

Supporting this

 

[Liger686]

I agree with this.

 

[The_Everlasting]

I should also mention that if people say stuff is being left out.

We don't need to describe every little power jump.

We just need a general idea of Goku's power in each arc. We don't need to mention every time Goku noticeably gets stronger.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Isn't BoG Saga Goku Multi-Galaxy+?

 

[Quantu]

I agree. Two keys that only revolve around one arc in a whole series feels pretty weird tbh, especially for Goku.

 

[SomebodyData]

IDK, given we are getting a new movie and there is a possibility of a continuation, this might just clog up the profile rather than help, not to mention, it looks extremely redundant. but I guess I'm okay with whatever everyone decides.

Also, wouldn't we have to do the same for Vegeta?

 

[ALRF]

Then a new page for said continuation is made

Just like how we have Dragon Ball Z Goku and Super Goku in different pages

My opinion though

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Guys. The number of keys in a profile shouldn't be a concern. Only how accurate it is.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Let's worry about the movie when it actually happens.

For all we know it won't provide anything new whatsoever for Goku.

 

[SomebodyData]

@Ever but neither does like, half the keys on the proposed profile.

@Matt I mean, it is accurate before, the only thing that changes is the reasoning for the most part, the proposed version is just divided.

@ALRF What would it be called? "Son Goku (Dragon Ball Super Part 2)"?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

No please. No more Goku profiles.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Multiple keys to show a progression of power with brief explanations is much cleaner than a single key with a pointlessly long, rambly explanation.

 

[SomebodyData]

Well I'm more worried that the page becomes redundant keys and the future of the profile (At this rate, it would be bigger than Z combined with Super after all before the division to begin with), but if you guys are okay with it, sure count me in.

 

[Theglassman12]

This seems alright.

 

[Promestein]

I agree. If things get too potentially redundant in the future we'll deal with that then.

 

[Stryk3r1337]

I agree.

 

[AKM sama]

I agree.

Minor nitpicks though:

• "Absorbed a significant portion of his God Ki into his base form"

It was stated that he absorbed all of it and the power fully merged with him. His ssj1 was stated to have surpassed his SSG (but that's not important).

• And the key "Mastered Ultra Instinct" is actually only "Ultra Instinct", just its complete version. The first one was incomplete so it was called UIO/UIS.

Suggessions:

• IMHO, the explanation of the first key should also include the super high density energy balls as those were the legit universal feats. How about adding this:

"Their combined attacks created a super high density energy ball which would've destroyed the universe if Beerus hadn't nullified it. A much powerful second combined energy ball was cancelled by Goku's punch."

• The explanation of SSB(post UIS) should also mention zenkai boosts, something like this:

"After receiving many zenkais and breaking his limits by achieving Ultra Instinct -Sign- a second time, he managed to fight against Jiren, who was finally showing a hint of his full power"

I agree with everything else including the need of more keys. Matt and Ever did a good job and I appreciate their time and effort put into this.

 

[Golden_Void]

"Super Saiyan Blue (Post-Ultra Instinct -Sign-)"

He used the form three times, only becoming SSB after the first two times. The keys need to be renamed/details edited.

"After breaking his limits by achieving Ultra Instinct -Sign- a second time, he managed to fight against Jiren, who was finally showing a hint of his full power"

The second time he transformed was against Kefla, who was compared to the spirit bomb by Whis, so he shouldn't have had any power difference between his first and second usage, especially since Whis also said he can't keep breaking his limits through the same level of power.

Battle of Gods Saga/Resurrection F Saga | Universe 6 Saga | Future Trunks Saga/Zen Exhibition Match | Ultra Instinct -Sign- | Post-Ultra Instinct -Sign- | Mastered Ultra Instinct

Something like this

Otherwise I feel we're giving a key for every form

 

[The_Everlasting]

I disagree with calling it the Zen Exhibition Match. Goku spent a significant portion of the Tournament of Power (Literally the first half) without getting his base Low 2-C power-up.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Yes.

 

[Golden_Void]

I guess, though the only thing that really sets it apart from being only the Black arc is the line where he can use kaiokenx20.

 

[Cropfist]

Isn't BoG Saga Goku Multi-Galaxy+?

This should be noted.

 

[Dark649]

Isn't BoG Saga Goku Multi-Galaxy+? This should be noted.

Actually he just retained the 3-A SS God Power, the 3-B+ was discussed to not be used/applied a long time ago.

 

[Vietthai96]

Actually Akira and Toei intent to use the:" absorb God Ki into base form" to create Saiyan beyond God which use God Ki in base form make it equal to SSG form while SSG form is exclusive to ritual, but they change this after U6 vs U7 arc, and when ToP come out, they decide to copy manga, reuse SSG form(except for Vegeta).

 

[TheRustyOne]

Saiyan Beyong God is stated to NOT have God Ki.

Saiyan Beyond God never used God Ki.

 

[TurboTriangle601]

@Poinciana

Then what's the point of "Saiyan Beyond God"? That just indicates that there's no such thing as god ki base and Goku just stays Large Star Level+.

If it never uses god ki, then "Saiyan Beyond God"'s purpose is completely defeated and we would just call it base form.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Hey calm down, I'm just trying to stop misinformation from spreading.

 

[TurboTriangle601]

Oh apologies if you interpreted my words this way. But ah well, It's just a minor argument.

And yes i am calm. Just wanted to give my three quarters and all...

 

[ByAsura]

Just a couple of major power ups. Could fight a strengthened hit without kaioken x10. Post future trunks arc. His god form was superior to his blue form when he fought it. Top arc.

Also I like this change. No offence to rice, but I didn't really like the old one, it lacked a bit too much information pre top.

 

[Vietthai96]

Many peoples confuse Saiyan beyond God with base form so they thing that Goku base form now is universal level threat

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

I agree with this change.

 

[Therefir]

There is no such thing as Saiyan Beyond God, Goku is 3-A in his base form.

 

[Vietthai96]

if that true then i think Goku is 2-C from SSJG to MUI

 

[Theglassman12]

if that true then i think Goku is 2-C from SSJG to MUI

That's not how it works at all. Unless he's shown to destroy beyond space and time for multiple universes, he's not going to be in 2-C.

 

[Vietthai96]

Uhm thank, i still get confuse with tiering system, sorry. But if base Goku is universal, the almost every fighter in ToP is universal, which make no sense because many of them can goe toe-to-toe with even SSJ Goku

 

[Theglassman12]

There's also the suggestion that Goku's holding back in the tournament, so that he can save his energy for the main threat.

 

[Vietthai96]

If that then he don't need to tranforms into SSJ to fight, just control his Ki to a level he need, unless you guys bring another suggestion that he transform........to showing off

 

[Theglassman12]

He only transforms against those that are legitimate threats. Not to mention the other Z-fighters are already in the tournament, so he's not doing all the work.