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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

Unless there is some wacky argument with anime buuhan being above baseline universal, on this wiki BoG Goku is vastly above baseline in universal.
 
What do you all think ?
Did gas die from frieza sucking the life out of gas and making him a skull or his body trying to become even stronger after getting hit by frieza thus reducing his age to zero?
Goku beared a similar stomach hit from moro
 
LNZO19 said:
Elaborate further. What is exactly questionable or flat out wrong?
Click to expand...
On the OPM side:

Starting off on a less important note, he says that the clash was stated to have the ability to vaporize the Earth. While I obviously don't doubt that it would have, that objectively, isn't actually what's stated (not even in the very image he showed), nor is it important considering that 1-Blast was surprised by the amount of energy despite having felt it prior, and 2-The actual feat is more impressive than vaporizing the Earth anyways, by multiple orders of magnitude, in fact. -Not really a big deal, just weird.

Also not a big deal but worth noting, he doesn't actually talk about Saitama's speed, he just says that Saitama "could be immeasurable" depending on the argument, but that in reality he probably isn't, then just doesn't bring up speed again.

Saying that the SPS destroyed "at least millions" is questionable. I do not doubt that it could have, but millions is certainly not the bare minimum. -Problem with his wording, again.

He says that Boros is stated to be able to destroy planets in his base form according to what the OPM Compus says, however this is an interpretation of, in reality, a totally vague statement. He's referring to a statement that Boros' latent energy is capable of destroying entire planets, which shows an image of Boros' in his Unreleased/Armored state. But that is not his base form, it is a suppressed Boros whose energy is sealed away, and to say that it applies to his base form by default is headcanon, it only says that his latent energy can destroy planets, which could, if anything, support the notion that CSRC is merely a planet busting attack. Also, he doesn't even show the statement? I could literally pull it up in like 20 seconds, so that was pretty lazy on his part. -This is questionable, some of it is outright wrong.

He also says that Boros' being star level at his peak is now consistent (or "more" consistent) and not a highball anymore, I disagree with that notion. Just because Saitama's full power is now confirmed to apparently be multi-solar system level bare minimum doesn't mean virtually anything in regards to how strong Boros was, considering that Saitama was massively suppressed against Boros still, and Saitama got stronger since then considering that he never actually has stopped growing. It is still absurdly inconsistent with other things in the series as well, and really can't be taken seriously, even calling it a highball is kind of generous. -This is highly questionable.

"We don't know how long Saitama can keep growing" This, and the fact that he refers to Blast as Bang, makes me wonder if he's actually an active OPM reader or if he's just trying to powerscale it because people wanted him to. The whole reason why he can grow so fast is because Saitama broke his limiter. He can grow forever, at least to any finite 3D level of power. Whether or not he could reach any finite 3D power in the span of one fight via sheer RE is debatable, though. -Outright wrong.

On the Dragon Ball side:

Mentions Broly going from base Vegeta to Blue Gogeta, which is true, but he's not accounting for the 3 different transformations that helped Broly get there. He already had Ikari, he got SSJ from the death of his father enraging him, whereas the only one he even got debatably through raw growth was FPSSJ, but it is still a transformation, in the end. It's not like he can just transform to a higher level whenever he feels like it or when he's pushed to that point, that's not how these forms work. Still, that doesn't mean Broly's rate of growth isn't massive. In base form, he goes from around base Vegeta level to above SSJ Vegeta in one round of combat, meaning he got at least 50x stronger in one round of highend MFTL+ combat. And in Ikari, he goes from slightly above base Goku, to being on par with SSJB Goku. Although I do find it a bit ridiculous that base Goku could keep up with him considering that Broly had surpassed SSJ Vegeta already while in base form and was comparable to SSJG Vegeta in Ikari, which implies that base Goku in the Broly movie was on par with SSJG Vegeta, very wonky scaling. Nonetheless, even Saitama's amplified rate of growth has no evidence that suggests it would surpass this level of growth, and his normal rate of growth is 100% inferior to that growth. So it's not that Seth's point was wrong, but I disliked the way he covered it by including transformations as apart of Broly's reactive evolution (he also says that him going from Vegeta-Gogeta was only a matter of minutes in all likelihood, but it was factually over an hour as he had an hour of beating down on Frieza while Goku and Vegeta were trying to pull off the fusion, nothing suggests Broly's growth just stopped here, although it could've slowed down of course). -This is flat out wrong.

Not a big deal, but him mentioning Namek Goku's power level was totally pointless and irrelevant. -This is...why?

His whole point with Buuhan is very questionable, but that's already being discussed.

As I said before, I'm aware that he is taking both of them at their maximums, but still, placing SSJG Goku against Beerus at high-universe level is a bit much. The first screenshot he posts of the supposedly infinite universe is arguably just blatant hyperbole, and is also arguably contradicted in the same paragraph, the second one he posts literally says in the highlighted section that it refers to the space around all of the celestial bodies in the universe, which literally confirms that the universe, in terms of the matter within it, is not infinite, in the very image he shows to claim it is infinite. And of course space is infinite, that isn't relevant. He also claims that Goku and Beerus would have destroyed a universal space-time. This is simply incorrect and unproven, an extrapolation off of a statement that can be interpreted as such, but is not factually meant to mean this, it would also imply that all the universes in Dragon Ball have different space-times, which is reaching even further. The very screenshot he posts says that it would become no more than a vacuum, and a vacuum literally refers to a space without matter. He contradicts his own argument with his own evidence. Though, at the very least, he does mention that infinite can just mean very great or massive, and says that he's doing it to be fair to Goku for the sake of argument. -Still, questionable to outright wrong, I don't get the point in highballing Goku to such an extent when it isn't necessary to prove that he is in fact much stronger.

Still, not an awful video, and I 100% agree with his consensus, but it has a lot of things I dislike.
 
Aachintya31 said:
What do you all think ?
Did gas die from frieza sucking the life out of gas and making him a skull or his body trying to become even stronger after getting hit by frieza thus reducing his age to zero?
Goku beared a similar stomach hit from moro
Click to expand...
Frieza killed him and he died because Gas cannot live when there is a giant hole in his body and he's already actively decaying like a zombie,
 
RinneItachi said:
Frieza killed him and he died because Gas cannot live when there is a giant hole in his body and he's already actively decaying like a zombie,
Click to expand...
yaa but did he die from aging (his life shortened to zero ) or because of hole in his body ( a similar hole was made in goku by moro but he didn't die) ?
 
Concerning the Buuhan thing .. it did happen in Dragonball Kai and both Kai and Super (Anime) were intended to follow the Manga closer and thus can be argued to be canon to each other. Not only that but they both use the same soundtracks and Super uses flashbacks from Kai rather than Z.

Secondly Toriyama said that the DBS( Manga) is the canon sequel to his manga . At no point does he mention the Anime.

My headcanon was always :

Manga ( Original) -> Manga ( Super)

Dragonball Anime -->Kai --> Super

Dragonball Anime -> Z Anime --> GT
 
Aachintya31 said:
yaa but did he die from aging (his life shortened to zero ) or because of hole in his body ( a similar hole was made in goku by moro but he didn't die) ?
Click to expand...
He was already dying, the fact that Frieza put a big hole in him probably just ended it quicker. I don't think it was due to aging, although that could've been apart of it as well.
 
RinneItachi said:
On the OPM side:

Starting off on a less important note, he says that the clash was stated to have the ability to vaporize the Earth. While I obviously don't doubt that it would have, that objectively, isn't actually what's stated (not even in the very image he showed), nor is it important considering that 1-Blast was surprised by the amount of energy despite having felt it prior, and 2-The actual feat is more impressive than vaporizing the Earth anyways, by multiple orders of magnitude, in fact. -Not really a big deal, just weird.

Also not a big deal but worth noting, he doesn't actually talk about Saitama's speed, he just says that Saitama "could be immeasurable" depending on the argument, but that in reality he probably isn't, then just doesn't bring up speed again.

Saying that the SPS destroyed "at least millions" is questionable. I do not doubt that it could have, but millions is certainly not the bare minimum. -Problem with his wording, again.

He says that Boros is stated to be able to destroy planets in his base form according to what the OPM Compus says, however this is an interpretation of, in reality, a totally vague statement. He's referring to a statement that Boros' latent energy is capable of destroying entire planets, which shows an image of Boros' in his Unreleased/Armored state. But that is not his base form, it is a suppressed Boros whose energy is sealed away, and to say that it applies to his base form by default is headcanon, it only says that his latent energy can destroy planets, which could, if anything, support the notion that CSRC is merely a planet busting attack. Also, he doesn't even show the statement? I could literally pull it up in like 20 seconds, so that was pretty lazy on his part. -This is questionable, some of it is outright wrong.

He also says that Boros' being star level at his peak is now consistent (or "more" consistent) and not a highball anymore, I disagree with that notion. Just because Saitama's full power is now confirmed to apparently be multi-solar system level bare minimum doesn't mean virtually anything in regards to how strong Boros was, considering that Saitama was massively suppressed against Boros still, and Saitama got stronger since then considering that he never actually has stopped growing. It is still absurdly inconsistent with other things in the series as well, and really can't be taken seriously, even calling it a highball is kind of generous. -This is highly questionable.

"We don't know how long Saitama can keep growing" This, and the fact that he refers to Blast as Bang, makes me wonder if he's actually an active OPM reader or if he's just trying to powerscale it because people wanted him to. The whole reason why he can grow so fast is because Saitama broke his limiter. He can grow forever, at least to any finite 3D level of power. Whether or not he could reach any finite 3D power in the span of one fight via sheer RE is debatable, though. -Outright wrong.

On the Dragon Ball side:

Mentions Broly going from base Vegeta to Blue Gogeta, which is true, but he's not accounting for the 3 different transformations that helped Broly get there. He already had Ikari, he got SSJ from the death of his father enraging him, whereas the only one he even got debatably through raw growth was FPSSJ, but it is still a transformation, in the end. It's not like he can just transform to a higher level whenever he feels like it or when he's pushed to that point, that's not how these forms work. Still, that doesn't mean Broly's rate of growth isn't massive. In base form, he goes from around base Vegeta level to above SSJ Vegeta in one round of combat, meaning he got at least 50x stronger in one round of highend MFTL+ combat. And in Ikari, he goes from slightly above base Goku, to being on par with SSJB Goku. Although I do find it a bit ridiculous that base Goku could keep up with him considering that Broly had surpassed SSJ Vegeta already while in base form and was comparable to SSJG Vegeta in Ikari, which implies that base Goku in the Broly movie was on par with SSJG Vegeta, very wonky scaling. Nonetheless, even Saitama's amplified rate of growth has no evidence that suggests it would surpass this level of growth, and his normal rate of growth is 100% inferior to that growth. So it's not that Seth's point was wrong, but I disliked the way he covered it by including transformations as apart of Broly's reactive evolution (he also says that him going from Vegeta-Gogeta was only a matter of minutes in all likelihood, but it was factually over an hour as he had an hour of beating down on Frieza while Goku and Vegeta were trying to pull off the fusion, nothing suggests Broly's growth just stopped here, although it could've slowed down of course). -This is flat out wrong.

Not a big deal, but him mentioning Namek Goku's power level was totally pointless and irrelevant. -This is...why?

His whole point with Buuhan is very questionable, but that's already being discussed.

As I said before, I'm aware that he is taking both of them at their maximums, but still, placing SSJG Goku against Beerus at high-universe level is a bit much. The first screenshot he posts of the supposedly infinite universe is arguably just blatant hyperbole, and is also arguably contradicted in the same paragraph, the second one he posts literally says in the highlighted section that it refers to the space around all of the celestial bodies in the universe, which literally confirms that the universe, in terms of the matter within it, is not infinite, in the very image he shows to claim it is infinite. And of course space is infinite, that isn't relevant. He also claims that Goku and Beerus would have destroyed a universal space-time. This is simply incorrect and unproven, an extrapolation off of a statement that can be interpreted as such, but is not factually meant to mean this, it would also imply that all the universes in Dragon Ball have different space-times, which is reaching even further. The very screenshot he posts says that it would become no more than a vacuum, and a vacuum literally refers to a space without matter. He contradicts his own argument with his own evidence. Though, at the very least, he does mention that infinite can just mean very great or massive, and says that he's doing it to be fair to Goku for the sake of argument. -Still, questionable to outright wrong, I don't get the point in highballing Goku to such an extent when it isn't necessary to prove that he is in fact much stronger.

Still, not an awful video, and I 100% agree with his consensus, but it has a lot of things I dislike.
Click to expand...
I'll just avoid stuff about Seth's wording since obviously I'm not Seth.

OPM Stuff:
Yeah Seth doesn't really mention Saitama's speed outside of the whole immeasurable debate, but I don't think he'd need to since dbs massively outspeeds anyways.

I do agree with the error on assuming that Boros's base form can destroy the planet. The whole star level thing was more of him appealing to OPM fans who believe that Boros can destroy stars based on the compass. If you believe this, it would be consistent with Saitama finding Boros strong but still far too weak to truly challenge him. I think this is insufficient evidence personally but it can be used as a form of argumentation to upgrade Boros a bit while still maintaining the natural progression of Garou being the next big bad stronger than Boros.

The Saitama growth thing was due to the fact that Seth is being pedantic. Seth only really says that we don't know the true scale of Saitama's growth outside of one fight and would need to see more.

DB Stuff:
The Broly fighting Frieza thing can be an explanation of why Broly was strong enough to fight Gogeta, but the problem is how strong do you think Frieza was. Would Frieza really push Broly that far to grow strong enough to fight Gogeta?

He's using the infinite size to keep the definition infinite consistent in the comparison between the verses. I think he said that since Saitama fans always use the literal definition of infinite he will be doing the same with the db statements. I'm not sure what Seth argues for spacetime destruction you'd have to ask him though.
 
LNZO19 said:
I'll just avoid stuff about Seth's wording since obviously I'm not Seth.

OPM Stuff:
Yeah Seth doesn't really mention Saitama's speed outside of the whole immeasurable debate, but I don't think he'd need to since dbs massively outspeeds anyways.

I do agree with the error on assuming that Boros's base form can destroy the planet. The whole star level thing was more of him appealing to OPM fans who believe that Boros can destroy stars based on the compass. If you believe this, it would be consistent with Saitama finding Boros strong but still far too weak to truly challenge him. I think this is insufficient evidence personally but it can be used as a form of argumentation to upgrade Boros a bit while still maintaining the natural progression of Garou being the next big bad stronger than Boros.

The Saitama growth thing was due to the fact that Seth is being pedantic. Seth only really says that we don't know the true scale of Saitama's growth outside of one fight and would need to see more.

DB Stuff:
The Broly fighting Frieza thing can be an explanation of why Broly was strong enough to fight Gogeta, but the problem is how strong do you think Frieza was. Would Frieza really push Broly that far to grow strong enough to fight Gogeta?

He's using the infinite size to keep the definition infinite consistent in the comparison between the verses. I think he said that since Saitama fans always use the literal definition of infinite he will be doing the same with the db statements. I'm not sure what Seth argues for spacetime destruction you'd have to ask him though.
Click to expand...
I just spoiler tagged it because it's slightly off-topic in addition to being a large message (also had some fairly major OPM spoilers), but you don't gotta do it if it isn't that big.

That's all fine.

"The Broly fighting Frieza thing can be an explanation of why Broly was strong enough to fight Gogeta, but the problem is how strong do you think Frieza was. Would Frieza really push Broly that far to grow strong enough to fight Gogeta?"

I don't think Broly would've necessarily stopped growing even with being stronger, it was just slowing his growth down. Although Broly certainly was surprised by Frieza's power when transforming, which initially forced Broly to back away, so I doubt the gap was beyond comparison.

Yeah I get what you mean, I still think it's very unnecessary though. I understand what he's trying to do, but he could've been much more basic about explaining why Goku is stronger, and in this case I think that the basic explanation would've been the better one. I believe his argument for the space-time destruction is interpreting Elder Kai's statement of "total annihilation" to mean destroying literally everything in the universe, including space and time, also implying that Seth thinks Universe 7 (and by extension all the numbered universes) have their own space-times...even though this is contradicted, especially by the fact that they are all encompassed within one space-time that we actually have confirmation of. So they would be 12 separate but linked space-times contained within an infinitely larger "super space-time", lmao. (This would also make Whis immeasurable speed seeing as he can literally just fly between them)
 
Since Goku is now in Fortnite, can’t wait for Spider-Man to do a 360 kamehameha while riding off a nimbus while using an amongus backbling while doing the get griddy emote
 
PNG for Cell Max.
Fal6ZVgX0AEgukL
 
Why does Goku have interdimensional range with telepathy but only universal range with IT for basically the same range feat?
 
Anime Dragon Ball Z/Kai canon to DBZ manga.


AnimeMe4.jpg


12: From time to time, il would happen that people whom I didn't even know were approaching me about the anime. Things were often said like: "Oh jeeze, between the manga and the anime, you must never take any time to let yourself breathe!". In reality, I had hardly worked at all on the anime, I had put confidence in my collaborators. I had enough to do just with the manga. I didn't want to work myself to death, you know...

Toriyama: I want to live until I'm 100 years old!

13: For example, drawing an image of a movement in a manga is relatively simple, but to animate this image, you had to decompose the movement and draw all the intermediary movements. That demands a colossal amount of work. (Ok, the example of Kame-sennin might not be the most appropriate...)

14: Of course, those who have read Dragon Ball have noticed that certain stories which are found in the anime didn't existe in the manga.

Oolong: What's this? I never saw that in the manga....

END: As one adventure in the manga corresponds to about 10 minutes of animation, and since one episode comprises on average 30 minutes, the entire series of Dragon Ball would have passed by very quickly. The team of animators therefore had to insert some original stories. I admire what they have done, that's a hell of a job!.

Toriyama: Dragon Ball, it's the anime and the manga!.

There also remake anime DBZ called DB Kai which is confimed this is Akira Toriyama version.

www.animenewsnetwork.com

Toei Confirms Dragon Ball Kai is Edited to Follow Manga

"Akira Toriyama Original Cut" re-airing to more closely adhere to manga's pacing
www.animenewsnetwork.com www.animenewsnetwork.com

I guess this is confirmed all of feat such like MFTL Namek Saga and Buuhan feat is canon to DBZ manga.
 
Tripleaccel555 said:
Anime Dragon Ball Z/Kai canon to DBZ manga.


AnimeMe4.jpg


12: From time to time, il would happen that people whom I didn't even know were approaching me about the anime. Things were often said like: "Oh jeeze, between the manga and the anime, you must never take any time to let yourself breathe!". In reality, I had hardly worked at all on the anime, I had put confidence in my collaborators. I had enough to do just with the manga. I didn't want to work myself to death, you know...

Toriyama: I want to live until I'm 100 years old!

13: For example, drawing an image of a movement in a manga is relatively simple, but to animate this image, you had to decompose the movement and draw all the intermediary movements. That demands a colossal amount of work. (Ok, the example of Kame-sennin might not be the most appropriate...)

14: Of course, those who have read Dragon Ball have noticed that certain stories which are found in the anime didn't existe in the manga.

Oolong: What's this? I never saw that in the manga....

END: As one adventure in the manga corresponds to about 10 minutes of animation, and since one episode comprises on average 30 minutes, the entire series of Dragon Ball would have passed by very quickly. The team of animators therefore had to insert some original stories. I admire what they have done, that's a hell of a job!.

Toriyama: Dragon Ball, it's the anime and the manga!.

There also remake anime DBZ called DB Kai which is confimed this is Akira Toriyama version.

www.animenewsnetwork.com

Toei Confirms Dragon Ball Kai is Edited to Follow Manga

"Akira Toriyama Original Cut" re-airing to more closely adhere to manga's pacing
www.animenewsnetwork.com www.animenewsnetwork.com

I guess this is confirmed all of feat such like MFTL Namek Saga and Buuhan feat is canon to DBZ manga.
Click to expand...
dawg that scan is fake
 
just watched the movie

straight peak

(also i think gohan stated that possibly goku nor vegeta could not beat cell max)
 
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