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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

Animegod12345 said:
Like I said this is false goku hasn't even seen beerus full power. So I'm not believing anything goku says unless whis himself confirmed it because like before goku's a laughable source.
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Once again, he's not a laughable source, he's the second best source, he's the only who actualy fought Beerus and copied his technique in the manga.
 
Doesn’t really matter if he hasn’t seen his full power, he’s guessing he’s stronger than Beerus based on what he’s seen Beerus do.
 
Beerus probably used like 5% of his power

also imma bit disappointed that Vegeta didn’t get more upset then he showed for this chapter
 
ZERO7772 said:
It's not like the anime is ******** universe busting feat on every arc either.
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At least the anime has had a couple of universe destruction statements since the Beerus Saga. What other universe busting statement has the manga had aside from that one?
 
If you want to make the argument, any time they mention Galaxy, according to the Daizenshuu is still a quarter of the universe and ironically isn't actually the size of a galaxy. A Nebula is a Galaxy in Dragon Ball terms.

Sure, that might not be what was intended with those statements, but that's still a valid way to read it if you wanted.
 
It's just dumb that the manga is making current Goku and Vegeta seem extremely shocked and impressed by a basic planet level Ki blast. At first I was hoping it's just to demonstrate how little ***** Beerus gives about pretty much everything, but nope. At least when they said stupid outlier stuff in the DBS anime, it could still be reasoned that what was happening had some other meaning, or that it was an irrelevant oversight, but this is blatantly "Beerus effortlessly destroys a planet and Vegeta for some reason acts as if its the most impressive feat he's seen". Like, do they forget that Vegeta was LITERALLY going to destroy the Earth in the Saiyan Saga? Or are we acting as though Goku and Vegeta in just their base forms wouldn't treat the Saiyan Saga Galick Gun as even a simple Ki blast?

I doubt Toriyama had anything to do with this specific nonsense. He's practically a senile old man at this point, but I doubt he would forget his own series to this extent. It's gotta be Toyotaro pulling this stuff. But even then, I just can't get why. It's literally an objective fact that planet busting is old news for Dragon Ball. Even plenty of the casual Dragon Ball fans should know that. Barely relevant way back in the Frieza Saga. And while it was still weird, I can understand the manga putting the non-GoD characters at galaxy levels and such. But PLANET level? Again, they were literally talking about planet level in the Saiyan Saga.

Of course, most rational people will disregard this as an outlier, but I'm not particularly excited to see all the downplay that spawns from it.
 
It's an objective fact that the PREVIOUS VILLAIN FROM THREE OR SO CHAPTERS AGO who is probably WEAKER than this Beerus is above planetary considering the Galaxy statement for Moro's explosion. And also Zamasu's statement of destroying the Galaxy as well.

Honestly, the only thing that I can think of is that they felt something seriously major from that more than the feat itself being shown. Or the decoration planets have some crazy durability in comparison to normal planets.
 
I think the logic behind it is just that people don't use logic. They just think "wow!! planet explosion real big explosion! he so strong!" so now its still impressive even though a stray Ki blast should hold the power of annihilating the Earth many billions of times over in the current series.
 
I wish Toyotaro had a guy who said "Uh, do you remember any of the feats and statements throughout literally the entire series back to the start of Z?".
 
I mean, granted, they can't just have Beerus up and just annihilate multiple Galaxies to show off, so a planet is the safest bet, but it does make it look super funny.
 
And I mean, I already brought it up, but I just can't emphasize enough how stupid this is based just on the fact alone that Saiyan Saga Vegeta was an irrefutable planet buster.

He said he would destroy the Earth in literally every canon and dub ever afaik. And in none of them did Goku act as if it was an incomprehensible feat that he doubted Vegeta could pull off. And the most reliable statement is that Vegeta would specifically reduce the planet to ashes.
 
I get where you're going, but I mean...they could just have him not using a show of destructive power, but just demonstrating his power directly on Vegeta, as he did right after blowing up a planet.
 
ZetaMarishi said:
I mean, granted, they can't just have Beerus up and just annihilate multiple Galaxies to show off, so a planet is the safest bet, but it does make it look super funny.
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This. ^

Like, I get it guys. It's extremely dumb, I agree, but they won't have Beerus destroy the universe just to impress Goku and Vegeta. It wouldn't make any sense.

It's just a low-end feat, so let's not overreact too much lol. These things happen all the time for most series.
 
Honestly, I agree with that (The whole 'Just use it on Vegeta' thing), but I'm just saying, it would be awkward for him to just up and glass a few galaxies. Sure, Whis could rewind it, but it wouldn't really serve the story too well, and it would put a pause on it for a page or two. Sure, that's not the worst break, but it's still an awkward break.

They wanted a cool shot and didn't think entirely about the power scaling. There's enough Galaxy and beyond stuff to just make this funny rather than anything else. Again, they can feel his ki, that's probably more of what they're reacting to. That and him just opening a can of whoop ass on post-Yardrat SSJBE Vegeta.
 
If a show of destructive power beyond planet busting wouldn't make sense, which I agree with, then just, like, don't do that? It's a lot worse than doing something so illogical and unnecessary. And I don't care about what Toyotaro did in specific, I care about what the results will be. There'll be so many people that downplay DB using this.
 
RinneItachi said:
If a show of destructive power beyond planet busting wouldn't make sense, which I agree with, then just, like, don't do that? It's a lot worse than doing something so illogical and unnecessary. And I don't care about what Toyotaro did in specific, I care about what the results will be. There'll be so many people that downplay DB using this.
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People are going to argue in bad faith with Dragon Ball no matter what. The last arc also gave us Goku punching Moro and making a shockwave move across the planet and that was supposed to be seen as impressive.

We know Goku is above that, but that's another example that could be used to downplay dragon ball even HARDER than this Beerus example.

EDIT: Best thing we can hope for is that if the anime comes back in the future, they give us more impressive showings and statements.
 
I'm not saying he should've destroyed galaxies literally at all, I'm saying it shouldn't have been him destroying a bunch of stuff at all.

They definitely didn't think whatsoever about powerscaling at all. I mean, it being funny is subjective. I just find it annoying. And no, it's not his Ki they were reacting to, or else he would've just flared it to make them piss themselves. What we see is them clearly being impressed by him destroying a planet. Hell, that's all Goku sees and is reacting to anyways, not his power level.
 
And I literally said I agreed with you. But that's not the world we got. And yes, it was meant to be impressive, it was a showing of Goku's power that had greater aftereffects than most of them.
 
It "not being the world we got" is irrelevant to the point, which is criticism of Toyotaro. I guess criticism on any series is irrelevant and unnecessary because the series was different from what we got. Not really, no one seemed particularly impressed by the shockwave itself. The closest thing being Beerus saying that he fights in a godlike way, which wasn't relevant to his power in specific anyways. It was a cool feat that looked strong for the sake of looking strong, unlike this feat where they're straight up saying that Goku and Vegeta are still struggling with planetary somehow.
 
Vegeta pretty much just got mildly angered and then got shitstomped. Was hoping for something more interesting and dramatic but there goes Toyotaro I guess.
 
At the end of a day, it's a lowball feat that honestly, one can file away as ki control. Just because Beerus was showing off his technique doesn't mean that he couldn't control it to do less damage than it should. They weren't thinking about power scaling and it shows.

And honestly, that Beerus statement probably does hold as much weight than Goku and Vegeta being impressed by that. It's just easier to rationalize it away because of the more vague terminology.

But I do agree that he should probably have someone tell him what's supposed to be kind of bog standard in dragon ball at this point. It is a weak point of Toyotaro when, again, literally the last villain was at BARE MINIMUM a Galaxy level threat, to have them be that impressed with a planet level feat and have no other things behind it other than Vegeta getting annihilated.
 
It's not really surprising at this point, Dragon Ball generally goes for a more simplistic way of story telling and while it has moments of complexity and depth it's usually straightforward and to the point at least IMO.
I think what makes the manga bland to me is that honestly Toyotaro just isn't as visually creative as Toriyama and how he writes and draws his scenes make them feel stagnant
 
I think Toyotaro is getting better at that, at least. I mean, I wouldn't call him in any way comparable to Toriyama at this point, and I wouldn't be surprised if he never reached those heights, but it does feel like that he's getting better at that part, at least.
 
On a more positive note, it seems like the "new" technique Vegeta will learn is indeed Hakai. I'm honestly really happy about that. It'll be a very good addition to his arsenal, and I think the anime might even give him Hakaiashin mode like Toppo.
It seems like Vegeta is slowly being groomed to take up Beerus' mantle as a GoD after he retires or passes. Whether Vegeta will take on that role is anyone's guess, but that is clearly Beerus and Whis' intention from the looks of it. Very exciting stuff for Vegeta imo.
 
Also on the planet destroying point, I understand that it's meant to be visually impressive but how can you make it impressive when these are feats that have been done for years at this point? Even when Goku and Vegeta first trained with Whis, Beerus sneezed away an entire planet so it seems pointless to show a very similar feat
 
ZetaMarishi said:
I think Toyotaro is getting better at that, at least. I mean, I wouldn't call him in any way comparable to Toriyama at this point, and I wouldn't be surprised if he never reached those heights, but it does feel like that he's getting better at that part, at least.
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Yes, his art is constantly improving gradually, but yeah he's not at Toriyama's level yet. Not even close, especially when it comes to paneling.
 
Vegeta with Hakai and Forced Spirit Fission. He's diversifying a bit from his usual self, so that's pretty nice. He might even get to use that kind of thing more than Goku did, so that's cool.
 
Disregarding it as a Ki control feat is a direct misinterpretation of it but the feat is irrelevant regardless because it's an outlier, yes. But that's not my point. I'm criticizing Toyotaro for his ridiculous levels of inconsistency.

The implications were that Goku appeared to be very graceful and skilled, rather than "lol really strong he hit hard". But even if it could be argued as possibly the other way, saying it holds as much weight as this is just blatantly wrong. One is a vague implication that can be interpreted multiple ways, the other is straight up telling us what the series wants to say.
 
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