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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

CryoTheMayo said:
I don't recall if this was talked about before but I'm curious about this.

The manga shows what appears to be universes floating atop floating stones as as spheres, like in the anime. But unlike the anime (which also only shows six spheres to my recollection) the manga also shows Zeno playing with the universes as much smaller spheres as chess pieces. And the Zenos state they each have 'five left', meaning they were playing with each of the 12 universe spheres here. And they're minuscule.

So what the hell are those six, relatively, GIANT spheres floating outside of Zeno's palace? The actual macrocosms each have their own colour and unique swirl patterns within them and are, once again, utterly insignificant compared to the other six spheres. In the anime those giant spheres have identical colours and swirls (implying they are identical) whereas the manga depicts them as all the same colour but having unique swirls.

My thought thought is that maybe these are the six destroyed universes but if that's the case, why would there be spheres left? And why would they be so massive compared to the macrocosms? The macrocosms appear to fit in Zeno's palm whereas those six giant spheres appear as large as his head, if not larger.

Does anyone have ideas on what these spheres could mean?
Click to expand...
Possibly the dimension Zen'ō is in is above 4D or something like that
 
CryoTheMayo said:
I don't recall if this was talked about before but I'm curious about this.

The manga shows what appears to be universes floating atop floating stones as as spheres, like in the anime. But unlike the anime (which also only shows six spheres to my recollection) the manga also shows Zeno playing with the universes as much smaller spheres as chess pieces. And the Zenos state they each have 'five left', meaning they were playing with each of the 12 universe spheres here. And they're minuscule.

So what the hell are those six, relatively, GIANT spheres floating outside of Zeno's palace? The actual macrocosms each have their own colour and unique swirl patterns within them and are, once again, utterly insignificant compared to the other six spheres. In the anime those giant spheres have identical colours and swirls (implying they are identical) whereas the manga depicts them as all the same colour but having unique swirls.

My thought thought is that maybe these are the six destroyed universes but if that's the case, why would there be spheres left? And why would they be so massive compared to the macrocosms? The macrocosms appear to fit in Zeno's palm whereas those six giant spheres appear as large as his head, if not larger.

Does anyone have ideas on what these spheres could mean?
Click to expand...
Anything? That's just decoration.

Since you can get to Zeno's planet by flying (with a little dimensional travel)

Those are not literal universes, otherwise anyone who can go to Zeno's palace would for some reason become giants.

EDIT: The most you could say about the chess thing, etc., is that Zeno can control/project himself big to manipulate the universes. Like he did with the anime using planets.
 
Phsccarvalho said:
Since you can get to Zeno's planet by flying (with a little dimensional travel)
Click to expand...
Flying? Whis has dimensional travel, we have discussed this in the past, that place there is outside the 12 Universes, said in a special manga guide

No being that does not have dimensional travel can reach a place like this
 
omegabronic said:
What if......it is only decoration?
Click to expand...
I doubt that but I can't objectively say it isn't decorative. I just don't see such an obvious detail being present while also being...just decorative. The similarities with the universe spheres seems intentional and we've seen the universe spheres outside of the chess pieces beforehand and they have clear similarities.

Phsccarvalho said:
Anything? That's just decoration.

Since you can get to Zeno's planet by flying (with a little dimensional travel)
Click to expand...
Where is this depicted in the anime or manga? I only recall people reaching the realm via dimensional travel or teleportation. The one instance I can think of is DBH Goku being stated to have flown there but DBH Goku also has immeasurable speed.
Phsccarvalho said:
Those are not literal universes, otherwise anyone who can go to Zeno's palace would for some reason become giants.
Click to expand...
That's not especially uncommon in fiction.
Phsccarvalho said:
EDIT: The most you could say about the chess thing, etc., is that Zeno can control/project himself big to manipulate the universes. Like he did with the anime using planets.
Click to expand...
I'm less concerned about the chess pieces and more concerned about the pillar spheres that seem to each depict a cosmos, yet there are only six of them and they differ from the contents of other universes. They lack the same colors or same swirls of the universe spheres as depicted in the chess pieces or in the explanations of the multiverse by Whis in the anime and manga alike.

They seem distinct from the depicted 12 Universes yet are similar in composition as spheres that appear to contain cosmic bodies. That stands out to me as strange.



To clarify, I'm not trying to cook some sort of revision here. It's just speculation about the cosmology.
 
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Can someone help me? In Dragon Ball Super Super Hero movie at the exact moment 14:20 is us telling Pan to focus we think to control ki (in my translation it is this), in English it is desire, can anyone see if in Japanese it is thoughts or desires?
 
LuffyRuffy46307 said:
Can someone help me? In Dragon Ball Super Super Hero movie at the exact moment 14:20 is us telling Pan to focus we think to control ki (in my translation it is this), in English it is desire, can anyone see if in Japanese it is thoughts or desires?
Click to expand...
In the DBS Manga, Piccolo states Pan cannot force her Ki out, she must 'will it' to control it. Original Japanese. So perhaps drop the Japanese version in the translations thread and see what they have to say?
 
CryoTheMayo said:
I doubt that but I can't objectively say it isn't decorative. I just don't see such an obvious detail being present while also being...just decorative. The similarities with the universe spheres seems intentional and we've seen the universe spheres outside of the chess pieces beforehand and they have clear similarities.


Where is this depicted in the anime or manga? I only recall people reaching the realm via dimensional travel or teleportation. The one instance I can think of is DBH Goku being stated to have flown there but DBH Goku also has immeasurable speed.

That's not especially uncommon in fiction.

I'm less concerned about the chess pieces and more concerned about the pillar spheres that seem to each depict a cosmos, yet there are only six of them and they differ from the contents of other universes. They lack the same colors or same swirls of the universe spheres as depicted in the chess pieces or in the explanations of the multiverse by Whis in the anime and manga alike.

They seem distinct from the depicted 12 Universes yet are similar in composition as spheres that appear to contain cosmic bodies. That stands out to me as strange.



To clarify, I'm not trying to cook some sort of revision here. It's just speculation about the cosmology.
Click to expand...
What do you think it is? A some type of space-time continuum or what?

I'm more inclined to thought it is a decorative and nothing more. But, I could be wrong.
 
NishizumiShiho said:
What do you think it is? A some type of space-time continuum or what?

I'm more inclined to thought it is a decorative and nothing more. But, I could be wrong.
Click to expand...
A few possibilities:
  1. Those are the true universes and the depictions with colors or as chess pieces are just for visuals or decoration. However we only see six of them.
  2. These are somehow related to the six destroyed universes (as there are specifically six)
  3. In relation to the second option, perhaps these are infant universes being developed after Universes 13-18 were destroyed?
  4. They are realms of higher order than the 12 Universes that we haven't even seen yet, possibly being transcendent of them but still below the Zeno Realm
  5. They are other multiverses
My personal guess is 3, that they are new universes being developed after 13-18 were destroyed. It lines up with the specific number (6 universes destroyed, 6 spheres in Zeno's Realm).
 
CryoTheMayo said:
A few possibilities:
  1. Those are the true universes and the depictions with colors or as chess pieces are just for visuals or decoration. However we only see six of them.
  2. These are somehow related to the six destroyed universes (as there are specifically six)
  3. In relation to the second option, perhaps these are infant universes being developed after Universes 13-18 were destroyed?
  4. They are realms of higher order than the 12 Universes that we haven't even seen yet, possibly being transcendent of them but still below the Zeno Realm
  5. They are other multiverses
My personal guess is 3, that they are new universes being developed after 13-18 were destroyed. It lines up with the specific number (6 universes destroyed, 6 spheres in Zeno's Realm).
Click to expand...
That's a cool theory, ngl. I'm more inclined to belive its either the third or fourth option.

If the answer is the third, then we know how the Macrocosm in Dragon Ball was made and produced.

If the answer is the fourth, then Zen'ō realm transcended everything in the Macrocosm along with the Subspace and Neutral Space.
 
Last edited:
CryoTheMayo said:
  1. Those are the true universes and the depictions with colors or as chess pieces are just for visuals or decoration. However we only see six of them.
  2. These are somehow related to the six destroyed universes (as there are specifically six)
  3. In relation to the second option, perhaps these are infant universes being developed after Universes 13-18 were destroyed?
  4. They are realms of higher order than the 12 Universes that we haven't even seen yet, possibly being transcendent of them but still below the Zeno Realm
  5. They are other multiverses
Click to expand...
6 - they are just aesthetic objects that represent the universes since both the pillars and the chess versions were never indicated or referred to as actually being universes or anything like that.
 
NishizumiShiho said:
That's a cool theory, ngl. I'm more inclined to belive its either the third or fourth option.

If the answer is the three, then we know how the Macrocosm in Dragon Ball was made and produced.

If the answer is the fourth, then Zen'ō realm transcended everything in the Macrocosm along with the Subspace and Neutral Space.
Click to expand...
If they are infant universes then it seems logical to assume the floating stones they are above are somehow related to how the universes are created. Perhaps Zeno and the Grand Priest didn't create the universes themselves, perhaps those stones are somehow capable of doing it.

Another attribute of the Zeno Realm I find interesting is how, inside Zeno's palace, you can see pillars reaching up into the 'sky' (where we see planets and seemingly stars) which evokes the feeling that these pillars are holding up creation. It reminds me a bit of the biblical firmament, which holds up the stars.

Phsccarvalho said:
6 - they are just aesthetic objects that represent the universes since both the pillars and the chess versions were never indicated or referred to as actually being universes or anything like that.
Click to expand...
Bruh I'm just speculating about things in the Zeno Realm. I already agreed that they could be purely aesthetic and that I can't prove otherwise.
 
CryoTheMayo said:
If they are infant universes then it seems logical to assume the floating stones they are above are somehow related to how the universes are created. Perhaps Zeno and the Grand Priest didn't create the universes themselves, perhaps those stones are somehow capable of doing it.

Another attribute of the Zeno Realm I find interesting is how, inside Zeno's palace, you can see pillars reaching up into the 'sky' (where we see planets and seemingly stars) which evokes the feeling that these pillars are holding up creation. It reminds me a bit of the biblical firmament, which holds up the stars.


Bruh I'm just speculating about things in the Zeno Realm. I already agreed that they could be purely aesthetic and that I can't prove otherwise.
Click to expand...
That could be the case. It would be cool though if the stones somehow created and nurtured the new infant Universe before they get released tp the Neutral Space aka the wild.

But if the stones created the Universe, who created the stones?

technically, there's no proof that it's a decorative either wwwwww
 
NishizumiShiho said:
But if the stones created the Universe, who created the stones?
Click to expand...
Zeno's daddy who will introduce the Super Multiverse for Dragon Ball Super Duper.
NishizumiShiho said:
technically, there's no proof that it's a decorative either wwwwww
Click to expand...
That's also true. There's nothing saying one way or the other. If it were confirmed to be decorative we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

I just think there are some cool possibilities here. Like maybe the Zeno Realm is hinting at things that will be revealed properly later. And even if not, it's still just nice to admire the design and contemplating what went through Toriyama and Toyotaro's minds when they drew it this way.
 
CryoTheMayo said:
Zeno's daddy who will introduce the Super Multiverse for Dragon Ball Super Duper.

That's also true. There's nothing saying one way or the other. If it were confirmed to be decorative we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

I just think there are some cool possibilities here. Like maybe the Zeno Realm is hinting at things that will be revealed properly later. And even if not, it's still just nice to admire the design and contemplating what went through Toriyama and Toyotaro's minds when they drew it this way.
Click to expand...
I'll send my job application to Toei when I'm finally goes to work in Japan. I will supervise the release of guidebook and stated everything is canon and expand Dragon Ball cosmology to massive degree.
 
omegabronic said:
funny aside, wouldn't this retcon them scaling to them in the ToP?
Click to expand...
Perhaps. They always say "this guy is as strong as a god of destruction/he's at the level of a god"

Soon after, Goku and company say that they still haven't overcome the gods of destruction, etc.

I don't remember much about granolah's wish since I only see the manga above, but wouldn't it involve beerus? And yet we have this 'indication' in the film that they haven't overcome the gods of destruction.
 
Phsccarvalho said:
I don't trust people who don't like Beerus and Whis. One of the best things about DB was inventing these characters and leaving them as recurring ones. I just don't like these continuous retcons.
Click to expand...
I love Beerus and Whis, for me they are one of the best new characters that Akira Toriyama invented

Retcons This always happens in DB
 
Fezzih_007 said:
This cabs don't really say that trought? Goku is just saying the universe is Full of powerfull guys, not that they are stronger than him.
Click to expand...
In fact it is very clear, the Gods of destruction are at the top that Goku and Vegeta want to reach, from what I can understand and even Goku has not surpassed Beerus in power
 
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