Nullflowerblush
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Eh. He is barely a tertiary character.
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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100
- Thread starter Warren_Valion
- Start date
Nullflowerblush
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Also, everybody scaling to Jaco is >255.686325 Tons, and everybody scaling to SSJ Kale is >over 1,000 tons.
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Aren’t people in the Saiyan Saga and above considered stronger than Jaco?
Nullflowerblush
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Do we allow backscaling from the Super manga?
That, and I only personally consider Lifting Strength scalable when a character is explicitly stated to be stronger than said character. Like, yes, obviously, Goku is infinitely more powerful than Jaco, but Jaco could always have higher Lifting Strength.
Besides, y'know, 40 tons.
That, and I only personally consider Lifting Strength scalable when a character is explicitly stated to be stronger than said character. Like, yes, obviously, Goku is infinitely more powerful than Jaco, but Jaco could always have higher Lifting Strength.
Besides, y'know, 40 tons.
Nullflowerblush
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There is Bardock carrying the Attack Ball over his shoulder, too, which does scale to the original series, but is, in all likelihood, an outlier.
There are, like, two Class K calculations (three, counting the Jaco feat), and then a dozen statements where characters are petrified at the thought of having to wear twice their body weight or, again, Goku needing Super Saiyan to lift 40 tons.
Although, in that latter instance, databooks have clarified that, first and foremost, being in the air made the task harder, and, secondly, Heaven yields a gravitational pull a hundred-times greater than that of Earth. But, like, that still means he needed Super Saiyan to pull off a Class M feat.
For comparison, the Mercenary Tao calculation is 484 tons.
There are, like, two Class K calculations (three, counting the Jaco feat), and then a dozen statements where characters are petrified at the thought of having to wear twice their body weight or, again, Goku needing Super Saiyan to lift 40 tons.
Although, in that latter instance, databooks have clarified that, first and foremost, being in the air made the task harder, and, secondly, Heaven yields a gravitational pull a hundred-times greater than that of Earth. But, like, that still means he needed Super Saiyan to pull off a Class M feat.
For comparison, the Mercenary Tao calculation is 484 tons.
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Ah just realized it’s from the dbs manga for some reason I didnt read it properly and assumed it was from the Jaco the galactic patrolmen
If there’s a lot of feats that scale higher than 40 tons then it would make 40 tons the Outlier im pretty sure
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I actually was questioning this myself. How much do we allow? Like, Z Manga Goku has the immune system/disease resistance given by the Jaco the Patrolman manga, but Toei’s doesn’t. Then there’s the fact Toei Goku also seems to lack a lot of the mental abilities that Z Manga Goku has listed, even when he’s replicated some of the same feats (like intercepting King Kai’s telepathic call, or appearing to help Gohan). Like, Toei Goku doesn’t even have his mildly extended lifespan inherent to all Saiyans.
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Nullflowerblush
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Jaco the Galactic Patrolman is a prequel to the original series.
This only applies to Jaco the Galactic Patrolman.
There are two.
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Yeah, but would it not retroactively upgrade the Toei variation considering it is merely the Manga put to anime form (plus extra events)? I’ve always viewed it as the Manga informs the anime, but the anime doesn’t inform the Manga. This also makes me question why nearly none of the guide statements are used for Toei Goku, such as how Goku read Krillin’s mind, or how Goku sharpened his mind to speak without his voice “regardless of distance.”
Sure…if you forget that the two aging statements made by Toriyama in interviews that is corroborated by the Jaco the Patrolman manga, instead of the vice versa. So Toei Goku should still totally have that longevity.
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Iirc the extinction bomb statement and longevity statement arguments were “refuted” by claiming Toriyama had no authority over the toei anime which I now realize is false and that he only had authority over the manga but either way there’s a bunch of those statements for longevity in the Z anime either way so I have no idea why that wasn’t accepted
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Toei doesn't have that because it is a different universe then the one that thr statement was made
Fezzih_007
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No, because we don't use exclusive manga content to upgrade the anime, since is different continuity.
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no, the anime has way too much differences and it is its own thing, just like how we don't scale the abilities of 616 spiderman to ultimate spiderman, different universes require proof for them to be applied
Eden_Warlock99
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That's why SSJ is actually a x78 multiplier in the Toei continuity
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Okay, but how does this apply to events in the anime? For example, Jaco the Patrolman is obviously canon to DBS, and through the DBS anime we know that History of Trunks has retroactively been made canon for the Anime’s continuity.
Since the rules are “Manga Exclusive” doesn’t count, how does that math out when that Exclusive content now to some degree related to the current canon that has connected itself to what was once apart of the non-canon Toei events?
I assume the idea is just solely adding HoT without considering how Jaco’s events could logically include the rest of Toei?
Further, what about things in the new Super Anime/Manga? Like SSJ improving perception/sight?
Sidebar: We’re totally adding that in a CRT eventually, right?
Since the rules are “Manga Exclusive” doesn’t count, how does that math out when that Exclusive content now to some degree related to the current canon that has connected itself to what was once apart of the non-canon Toei events?
I assume the idea is just solely adding HoT without considering how Jaco’s events could logically include the rest of Toei?
Further, what about things in the new Super Anime/Manga? Like SSJ improving perception/sight?
Sidebar: We’re totally adding that in a CRT eventually, right?
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Nullflowerblush
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No?
Different continuities.
In the TV anime's continuity, Bardock – The Father of Goku remains the prequel.
'Cuz nobody is doing threads like I am.
hm?
Less "retroactively been made canon" and more "adapted".
Besides, Jaco the Galactic Patrolman is canon to the Super anime because Jaco the Galactic Patrolman is canon to the original series.
whhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhy would that affect the tv anime?
Nullflowerblush
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That reminds me, the Wiki still uses the Planet Vegeta destruction calculation from the outdated Episode 19 flashback.
Eden_Warlock99
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Pretty sure the broly movie one is not calculable
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DBS is manga DB canon and not toei canon
My dude, things shared between the two, like the guides are shared, things exclussive to one are not to the other, inreally don't see the point you are making
any proof that the events of the manga prequel, launched years after the toei anime, would be canon to said anime? This is like saying that DB minus is canon to toei anime
Retroactively applies to OG DB manga, but not to the Toei continuity
Not unless you have proof that these elements from one universe are equal in the othet alternate universe
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Huh, what else could we use then?
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Nullflowerblush
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For the Bardock the Father of Goku movie you could argue that got retconned too because it was also canon to the manga before DB Minus and there’s statement saying it applied to the manga
Im referring to the extinction bomb crt when I mentioned that Toriyama mentioned that saiyans were immune to the extinction bomb and it was argued Toriyama doesn’t have authority over the anime and only manga so that statement couldn’t apply to toei
Eden_Warlock99
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It's real funny how Ginyu Fight Goku ends up being stronger than Planet Vegeta's destruction in the anime just via multipliers
Nullflowerblush
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KLOL509 replied to Kulf Boba's calculation stating that the timeframe was impossible to determine because the bulk of the explosion occurred off-screen and there are multiple cuts in-between shots, but every subsequent cut carries over the continuity from the last, like the travelling of shockwaves across space and towards Frieza and the direction of the sparks.
Only Bardock's last stand is referenced.
I meant the whole "Toriyama does has authority over the anime" thing.
BlastX
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Wait what? Why?
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In the manga we have 2 visual that is similar to DBS broly's scene, we can say what the author intention was sure, but the manga never says that the events of the special are the cannon ones
Toryama said that the galactic patrol couldn't do anything agains the saiyans or freeza, and since they have the bomb, then the 2 must be able to resist that, but we have no proof of a galactic patrol nor the extinction bomb in the toei continuity
Eden_Warlock99
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More consistent with his Power Level, pog
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I mean that’s it’s outright stated to be canon in the manga iirc it was either in a guide or by Toriyama itself or both
I’m confused are you saying he does have authority over the anime or not?
Which 2 visuals? The Bardock special was literally stated to be canon to the manga I’m not saying it still is but it was it got retconned though
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No, Toriyama explicitly referenced the Extinction Bomb in an interview in V-Jump. If Guides and Interviews are freely allowed to be used for both Anime and Manga, then the Toei Continuity Saiyans should definitely have the same resistance.
He’s referring to Executor. According to Executor, most—If not all—Of the Toei stuff had a portion of Toriyama’s influence.
This is as small as merely character designs, to writing up a whole weakness for Toei Namekians (whistling hurting their ears due to how advanced/sensitive their hearing is), to the entirety of the Toei Cosmolgy was influenced by Toriyama, made by him so they can make their filler. While each piece of Toei can’t be properly discerned for exactly how much Tori involvement is in it, if we restrict ourselves to solely what Tori has involved himself in, it suddenly becomes a clusterfuck. Mind you, as referenced by Executor, over East they (as in the people who work with him) have the mindset of anything influenced by Toriyama is fair game, and thus DBZ:K could be considered “the true story.”
Also, it should be noted that Toriyama retroactively adds data in interviews, which should also be considered by the logic given. Like S-Cells, the SSG Legend, etc.
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I meant to type 1 instead of 2, by outside of the manga, with later on in the manga comfirming how this was not the case
Nullflowerblush
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Nullflowerblush
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Ah, I remember the days when claims had sources backing them up.
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Not when the interview was in relation to the main continuity/DBS
Key point being "portions" we know that he helped, but we don't know all that he did and didn't had a hand into, also how this relate to a thing informed years after the toei animr endee exactly?
I ask you to prove this last part
How would it become a "cluster ****" we would be being acurate
and DBK clearly isn't since it uses the bardock special and has mira and towa in it, both of which do not fit into the main cannon showed in dbs brolt and the main cannon, besides, what they consider matters not much when they aren't akira talking
Don't see how this matters here?
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We would need to determine which parts
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See Executor’s post. Almost anything that had at least some Toriyama involvement is considered “fair game” at least in Japan.
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I’m telling you what Executor claimed. If you want sources/proof you’ll have to ask him.
Because trying to figure out the level of influence Toriyama had with each Toei work is near impossible.
Sure, but the point remains all the same.
I’m just pointing out how interviews should still apply to Toei.
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Also this is important. How do we even figure out “how much” influence is enough for it to be considered valid. If, for example, we decided that just passing notes and rough drafts isnt enough, then DBS anime and manga are both noncanon by this standard.
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