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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

TiltedFN said:
wait omega are you using ssjg multipliers? And the new grade multipliers?
Click to expand...
i am planning a new thread to implement them, also the grade 3 multiplier was accepted as a power multiplier and not a speed one as far as i know, no one brought it up for speed in the thread that is applying it at least, so i still need that figured out before posting the follow up thread, but i am planning on making the thread implementing the newly accepted multipliers, and change the scaling a bit, don't you worry, but i need null's cell saga scaling thread to finish first, i don't want to take attention away from that thread
 
ProfectusInfinity said:
Looking over the article, there seems to be a claim that characters "warp through space" when they enter the hyperbolic time chamber. This is expanded on to explain the concept of hyperspace. Essentially, under the folding model of hyperspace (which is defined as higher dimensional space), two distant points in dimensional space can converge in a higher dimension to allow easy travel, the same way folding a paper (2-D) into a crunch (3-D) brings all points of the 2-dimensional space together. This is why hyperspace is star wars is defined as a higher dimensional space: it's a space that converges distant points in space-time within a higher dimension to allow swift travel. Here are some problems.

1. The higher dimensional space stuff in the article was reffering to the very action of warping as they enter the hyperbolic time chamber. It's not saying the HTC is higher dimensional itself, just that they pass through hyperspace to reach it.

2. The article is not a guidebook, it's part of a series on the official Dragon Ball website where they interview people who are both well-read on Dragon Ball and scientifically-accredited to explore Dragon Ball mechanics. Some points of the "Ask The Experts" articles discuss real-world science, while others have the interviewee make assertive claims regarding Dragon Ball mechanics. Although I see why the statements in these articles can be considered canon, I feel like they could be nitpicked hard by Dragon Ball opponents.

3. I feel like "hyperspace" in itself might not be enough to be tiered without being accompanied by qualitative superiority statements. There's one statement confirming that the HTC is infinite in size while just its atmosphere is earth-sized, so take from it what you will. I'll see if I can find the scans.

Edit: All right, there are 3 statements on the HTC being infinite.

The first one has it described as endless.

The second one is a little vague...

And from what I'm told, the third one might actually be a wiki scan rather than anything official.
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we have statement in verse saying how it is actually Earth sized, which holds more weight than thirtiary canon, in this wiki at least
 
Huesito88 said:
But are these multiplers going to be accepted for Game Heroes though =/?
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heroes is easier, when you reach levels of infinity in speed i am sure the "too inflated with no feats coming even close to that level, therefore not usable by our multiplier page" doesn't work, as far as i have seen at least
 
Looks like guides that aren't from a hard to translate launguage that will generate an entire debate involving semantics isn't reliable enough, and should just be rated as "possibly" huh. What the ****
 
TiltedFN said:
I'm going to go with all of them, upgrades keep getting rejected and downgrades accepted because of staff. Like 6 pages just for some staff who never participated in it to just drop in and say "i agree" without addressing counter arguments, and some just straight up ignoring everything, it seems this is getting common with dragon ball, and i know some person is gonna flame me for saying this, but its literally true.
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A few years ago that's exactly what the Sonic supporters on the Wikis went through to the point we kinda had to owned being dunked on and accepting the negative internet stigma surrounding both the franchise and it's fans, it had gotten to the point being insulted, mocked and sometimes even harassed (both on and offsite) was the accepted norm rather than any semblance of actual constructive discussion, that said certain past Sonic supporters were far from blameless themselves and only proved the negative rep was deserved but they got dealt with (not to dig up ancient history or anything). Bleach and Ben 10 supporters also received the short end of a stick from VSBW for a long time in the past (especially Bleach supporters) until times and mindset changed.

All I'm saying is don't give up!
 
The_Axiom_of_Virgo said:
A few years ago that's exactly what the Sonic supporters on the Wikis went through to the point we kinda had to owned being dunked on and accepting the negative internet stigma surrounding both the franchise and it's fans, it had gotten to the point being insulted, mocked and sometimes even harassed (both on and offsite) was the accepted norm rather than any semblance of actual constructive discussion, that said certain past Sonic supporters were far from blameless themselves and only proved the negative rep was deserved but they got dealt with (not to dig up ancient history or anything). Bleach and Ben 10 supporters also received the short end of a stick from VSBW for a long time in the past (especially Bleach supporters) until times and mindset changed.

All I'm saying is don't give up!
Click to expand...
Yeah well its hard when all you get is a "disagree fra". But you do got a point.
 
The_Axiom_of_Virgo said:
A few years ago that's exactly what the Sonic supporters on the Wikis went through to the point we kinda had to owned being dunked on and accepting the negative internet stigma surrounding both the franchise and it's fans, it had gotten to the point being insulted, mocked and sometimes even harassed (both on and offsite) was the accepted norm rather than any semblance of actual constructive discussion, that said certain past Sonic supporters were far from blameless themselves and only proved the negative rep was deserved but they got dealt with (not to dig up ancient history or anything). Bleach and Ben 10 supporters also received the short end of a stick from VSBW for a long time in the past (especially Bleach supporters) until times and mindset changed.

All I'm saying is don't give up!
Click to expand...
Honestly the day people actually accept these biases exist and try to do something about them instead of pretending they don't is when nature will start to heal
 
CloverDragon03 said:
Honestly the day people actually accept these biases exist and try to do something about them instead of pretending they don't is when nature will start to heal
Click to expand...
Yeah but when you have certain people that try their hardest to side with staff and insist that these biases don't exist and it's just us that is the problem, that is where all progression stops, it's very annoying. A lot of cope and denial in the air that it does exist.
 
omegabronic said:
i think that blaming the wiki itself every time a downgrade is approved or an upgrade is denied also doesn't do any favors to anyone
Click to expand...
How can you expect me to believe something isn't up with how convenient it's all been lately? And I'd say it's less so the wiki at large and more so a select few people

Y'all are kinda proving my point
 
CloverDragon03 said:
How can you expect me to believe something isn't up with how convenient it's all been lately? And I'd say it's less so the wiki at large and more so a select few people

Y'all are kinda proving my point
Click to expand...
massive upgrade to cosmology that made all of dbs 2-C? like, if this wiki really has such hate to DB, how could such a massive upgrade have passed? like, i get where you are coming from, but we can't exaggerate, there are blame on both sides i would say
 
omegabronic said:
massive upgrade to cosmology that made all of dbs 2-C? like, if this wiki really has such hate to DB, how could such a massive upgrade have passed? like, i get where you are coming from, but we can't exaggerate, there are blame on both sides i would say
Click to expand...
I'm not gonna act like there isn't bias for Dragon Ball, I'd give a few examples but I'd be crucified for labeling them as such, but the former has really been showing lately imo. Hell, I doubt I'd be on board for this Low 1-C DBS thing, but for crying out loud barely anyone read through Profectus's very noteworthy post and the thread was forcibly closed just because
 
omegabronic said:
massive upgrade to cosmology that made all of dbs 2-C? like, if this wiki really has such hate to DB, how could such a massive upgrade have passed? like, i get where you are coming from, but we can't exaggerate, there are blame on both sides i would say
Click to expand...
Not to mention we allow cross scaling between blatantly different continuities, we still consider age old data books valid when portrayal wise DBS just ignores a lot of it.

the 2 recent examples are pretty dumb and blatant bs, DB also has some intrinsic favouritism and certain allowances other verses don’t get.
 
CloverDragon03 said:
I'm not gonna act like there isn't bias for Dragon Ball, I'd give a few examples but I'd be crucified for labeling them as such, but the former has really been showing lately imo. Hell, I doubt I'd be on board for this Low 1-C DBS thing, but for crying out loud barely anyone read through Profectus's very noteworthy post and the thread was forcibly closed just because
Click to expand...
yeah, i agree with you in that part, i honestly see where you are coming from, more staff should have taken time to read his post, it is a staff thread for meat's sake, time limit is not a problem, staff can take their time, but to use the "bias argument" as an excuse for every time a downgrade happens or upgrade gets rejected is also not a good thing at all, honestly people should do as sonic supporters did back in the day and just try to get better themselves ratter than blaming the wiki, it will take a while, but with time the reputation gets better and the bias, from both sides, will get lower, it worked for sonic, can work for db as well, i truly believe that things can get better
 
omegabronic said:
massive upgrade to cosmology that made all of dbs 2-C? like, if this wiki really has such hate to DB, how could such a massive upgrade have passed? like, i get where you are coming from, but we can't exaggerate, there are blame on both sides i would say
Click to expand...
Correct me if I’m wrong, as I’m not as familiar with this wiki as you lot…

But I’m pretty sure the only reason this was accepted was become the hyperbolic time chamber was removed from the macrocosm. There is a note stating on the Dragon Ball profiles that the 12 macrocosms are space-times, and the enveloping timeline doesn’t prove they share a time axis as the macrocosms have demonstrated a capacity to hold parallel space-times. In order to prove the macrocosms aren’t 3-A, you’d have to prove they house at least 1 parallel space-time. Without the HTC, the wiki had no choice but to hear out the 2-C arguments that had been buried for so long.

In other words, 2-C macrocosm wasn’t a product of goodwill. It was only accepted because 3-A macrocosm was an even worse prospect for the site.
 
ProfectusInfinity said:
Correct me if I’m wrong, as I’m not as familiar with this wiki as you lot…

But I’m pretty sure the only reason this was accepted was become the hyperbolic time chamber was removed from the macrocosm. There is a note stating on the Dragon Ball profiles that the 12 macrocosms are space-times, and the enveloping timeline doesn’t prove they share a time axis as the macrocosms have demonstrated a capacity to hold parallel space-times. In order to prove the macrocosms aren’t 3-A, you’d have to prove they house at least 1 parallel space-time. Without the HTC, the wiki had no choice but to hear out the 2-C arguments that had been buried for so long.

In other words, 2-C macrocosm wasn’t a product of goodwill. It was only accepted because 3-A macrocosm was an even worse prospect for the site.
Click to expand...
it was accepted simply because of the Toei continuityDBGT becoming accepted as another timeline in the verse, making them have similar cosmologies and the statements of 1 applying to the other, Toei chars were 2-C an entire month before DBS iirc
 
Hasty12345 said:
Not to mention we allow cross scaling between blatantly different continuities, we still consider age old data books valid when portrayal wise DBS just ignores a lot of it.

the 2 recent examples are pretty dumb and blatant bs, DB also has some intrinsic favouritism and certain allowances other verses don’t get.
Click to expand...
- After years everyone 2-C with several continuous space-time.

- Massive speed update.

- ssj2 500x multiplier

- Cross-scaling between DBGT and DBS, in addition to being able to use Spanish and decades-old guides.

But the wiki hates and is prejudiced against DB, I know.

Seriously, until recently every crt that added 1 more spacetime continuum to the cosmology was being accepted.

But now that some downgrades and unaccepted updates have come, DB is once again hated by the wiki.

Seriously, obviously some staff members can be prejudiced and biased, it's impossible to be 100% impartial, it goes for anyone.

But blaming the entire wiki for some downgrades and unaccepted updates after so much has been accepted after literal years is pretty childish in my view.

Seriously, on topics like the 3-A finite/infinite downgrade the supporters instead of trying to summarize all the counterarguments in one message or at least really trying to really counterargument, were badmouthing the OP's arguments, saying that they don't do sense that they are wrong and so on, without giving any decent counter-arguments. Only at the FINAL when the crt had already been ACCEPTED did the real counter-arguments begin.

And in the Omega downgrade thread on spacetimes, I was told that supporters promised him a summary of the counterarguments but that never happened, they never sent it.

But of course "Wiki hates dragon ball"
 
Phsccarvalho said:
- Cross-scaling between DBGT and DBS, in addition to being able to use Spanish and decades-old guides.

But the wiki hates and is prejudiced against DB, I know.

Seriously, until recently every crt that added 1 more spacetime continuum to the cosmology was being accepted.

But now that some downgrades and unaccepted updates have come, DB is once again hated by the wiki.

Seriously, obviously some staff members can be prejudiced and biased, it's impossible to be 100% impartial, it goes for anyone.

But blaming the entire wiki for some downgrades and unaccepted updates after so much has been accepted after literal years is pretty childish in my view.

Seriously, on topics like the 3-A finite/infinite downgrade the supporters instead of trying to summarize all the counterarguments in one message or at least really trying to really counterargument, were badmouthing the OP's arguments, saying that they don't do sense that they are wrong and so on, without giving any decent counter-arguments. Only at the FINAL when the crt had already been ACCEPTED did the real counter-arguments begin.

And in the Omega downgrade thread on spacetimes, I was told that supporters promised him a summary of the counterarguments but that never happened, they never sent it.

But of course "Wiki hates dragon ball"
Click to expand...
Cross-scalling is actually awesome for the verse and it's nice it got accepted. But EML being a Spanish guide is not any reason for it to not be considered. This is literally in every first page of all 50 volumes.

"DRAGON BALL The legend of manga

2007 by BIRD STUDIO/SHUEISHA Inc. Original Text and Design was created in Japan in 2007 by SHUEISHA Inc., Tokyo. Text by KISOUSHA Inc., Tokyo, Japan. (Yoshihiko Tozawa, Natsuo Funatsu, Yuichi Shimizu) Designed by BANANA GLOBE STUDIO Co.Ltd., Tokyo, Japan. Based on Akira Toriyama's -DRAGON BALL

1984 by BIRD STUDIO/SHUEISHA Inc. All rights reserved.

Translation rights in Spanish Language licensed by Shueisha Inc.

to Editorial Salvat, S.L. In Spain."
 
ChronoULT said:
Cross-scalling is actually awesome for the verse and it's nice it got accepted. But EML being a Spanish guide is not any reason for it to not be considered. This is literally in every first page of all 50 volumes.

"DRAGON BALL The legend of manga

2007 by BIRD STUDIO/SHUEISHA Inc. Original Text and Design was created in Japan in 2007 by SHUEISHA Inc., Tokyo. Text by KISOUSHA Inc., Tokyo, Japan. (Yoshihiko Tozawa, Natsuo Funatsu, Yuichi Shimizu) Designed by BANANA GLOBE STUDIO Co.Ltd., Tokyo, Japan. Based on Akira Toriyama's -DRAGON BALL

1984 by BIRD STUDIO/SHUEISHA Inc. All rights reserved.

Translation rights in Spanish Language licensed by Shueisha Inc.

to Editorial Salvat, S.L. In Spain."
Click to expand...
And when I said it was to disregard something man?

I made the list of major updates and things DB has had recently. One of them was the inclusion of this magazine in Spanish, I never said it wasn't valid.

And again, didn't I bad-mouth cross scaling? You're admitting yourself that you're super awesome for the verse and it was great to be accepted. But it seems that for some DB supporters, even though things like this are accepted and continue to be accepted, the wiki hates dragon ball.

That's exactly it, you guys are extremely antagonistic to anything that threatens DB whether it's a downgrade or an unaccepted update. I didn't say anything about the issue of the validity of things, but you still had to for some reason prove that it's valid, and I never asked that.
 
Phsccarvalho said:
- After years everyone 2-C with several continuous space-time.

- Massive speed update.

- ssj2 500x multiplier

- Cross-scaling between DBGT and DBS, in addition to being able to use Spanish and decades-old guides.

But the wiki hates and is prejudiced against DB, I know.

Seriously, until recently every crt that added 1 more spacetime continuum to the cosmology was being accepted.

But now that some downgrades and unaccepted updates have come, DB is once again hated by the wiki.

Seriously, obviously some staff members can be prejudiced and biased, it's impossible to be 100% impartial, it goes for anyone.

But blaming the entire wiki for some downgrades and unaccepted updates after so much has been accepted after literal years is pretty childish in my view.

Seriously, on topics like the 3-A finite/infinite downgrade the supporters instead of trying to summarize all the counterarguments in one message or at least really trying to really counterargument, were badmouthing the OP's arguments, saying that they don't do sense that they are wrong and so on, without giving any decent counter-arguments. Only at the FINAL when the crt had already been ACCEPTED did the real counter-arguments begin.

And in the Omega downgrade thread on spacetimes, I was told that supporters promised him a summary of the counterarguments but that never happened, they never sent it.

But of course "Wiki hates dragon ball"
Click to expand...
Yeah but a lot of those upgrades were either after years of trying, or were like pulling teeth to get accepted. And when people do say 'wiki hates dragon ball', it's usually never that statement verbatim, it's in reference to certain mods and standards. Painting with such a large brush and then using it to throw the same stone you are accusing supporters of doing doesn't feel honest.

I've done my very best to keep this sorta talk to a minimum, I've told people to try and stay respectful and to properly conduct themselves. But when I see how the opponents and certain mods conduct themselves with no consequences, as well as several downgrade threads using already bunk arguments coming again and again, when I hear people complaining about I go, 'yeah, I get it.'

I'm still of the opinion it isn't super productive, but replying to a comment talking about favoritism is obviously gonna get someone to defend it. Using that as a gotcha is dishonest.

5C Roshi, 2C DBS, multipliers, all extremely difficult to get through. And guess what, a lot of people made getting all that stuff accepted extremely difficult. So are people gonna be frustrated and defensive? Yeah.

Pointing to upgrades and using that as a way to dismiss some very legit grievances is lame and only furthers the divide.
 
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