Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

[RinneItachi]

I mean, unless you want 3-A Krillin, 3-A 18 isn't happening. I think it's better to treat Ribrianne vs Goku an outlier than saying Krillin and 18 an Universal via scaling to her.

If the Shosa fight is all that suggests Krillin and 18 being on par, that's not enough evidence, I'd say. 18 was casually stomping Shosa, who caught her off guard when pushing her back. Her and Krillin only fought together for a brief period and easily defeated Shosa in a scene that was clearly supposed to just be meant to show their affection. Anyways, 18 was fighting alongside the others against Aniraza, dodging and also tanking attacks from Aniraza just as well as them, which, according to scaling, would mean that 18 could tank and shrug off an attack that would obliterate Krillin. Goku says that they'll also have to make up for 18's knockout, which further implies that she was actually useful in the fight, whereas Krillin would be irrelevant. 18 and 17 were also sort of made out as being comparable if not roughly equal in that episode, which would make sense narratively.

It's also really not too absurd to claim that Krillin is 3-A, considering how he could perform against Gohan and Goku, even if they were heavily suppressed. Kachi Katchin destruction was always kind of weird anyways, with Gohan in the Buu Saga not actually attacking the Katchin at full power (they just used it as a test for a likely unreinforced Z-Sword with no one expecting that the Katchin was stronger), and on top of all that, we don't actually know how much stronger Kachi Katchin is, so if anything, the whole Katchin scaling isn't really concrete.

Even when it comes to the argument of absurdity, I'd say it actually leans in Krillin's favor. Is it more ridiculous to claim that Krillin is 3-A than it is to claim that Krillin is literally less than 0.0001% of base Goku's power, especially when considering what we actually see in the show?

 

[Dragomer]

Anyway, anything interesting that's DB related happening lately?

 

[BlackeJan]

Vegito vs Kefla

I actually want y'all opinion on this but in the yt comment section, people think a ToP Base Vegito would mop the floor with Kefla and with the recent retcon of potaro earrings and fusion dance having the same strength, do y'all think Base Vegito would win against Kefla?

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Base Kefla > Vegito Blue.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Vegito vs Kefla

I actually want y'all opinion on this but in the yt comment section, people think a ToP Base Vegito would mop the floor with Kefla and with the recent retcon of potaro earrings and fusion dance having the same strength, do y'all think Base Vegito would win against Kefla?

Basing it on Battle of Gods logic, Kelfa.
Basing it on Super: Broly logic, Kefla.

 

[Dragomer]

Base to base, Vegito should win, Goku was strong enough to fight with Kale and Caulifla at the same time while tired as a SSJ.

If you add Kefla transformation, it's different because we literaly have no idea of how strong it make you compared to your base.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

According to the Battle of Gods Saga, Super Saiyan God is stronger than Potara Fusion with Vegeta, with base Kefla ragging on God Goku.
According to Super: Broly, the Fusion (Metamoran/Potara, I guess) is comparable to Goku and Vegeta in their Blue forms, with SSJ Kefla ragging on Blueku.

 

[Dragomer]

According to the Battle of Gods Saga, Super Saiyan God is stronger than Potara Fusion with Vegeta, with base Kefla ragging on God Goku.
According to Super: Broly, the Fusion (Metamoran/Potara, I guess) is comparable to Goku and Vegeta in their Blue forms, with SSJ Kefla ragging on Blueku.

Battle Of God said that Vegito at that point would lose to what Goku saw of Beerus. Fusion isn't a set power up, just like Super Saiyan, Goku being stronger with SSJG Ritual just boost Vegito just as much.

So no, what BOG said was that Vegito pre-SSJG ritual < SSJG Goku, that's all, post ritual Vegito would obviously be stronger than SSJG Goku since he literaly use his power to make his own.

 

[RinneItachi]

According to the Battle of Gods Saga, Super Saiyan God is stronger than Potara Fusion with Vegeta, with base Kefla ragging on God Goku.
According to Super: Broly, the Fusion (Metamoran/Potara, I guess) is comparable to Goku and Vegeta in their Blue forms, with SSJ Kefla ragging on Blueku.

Not how that works, but Dragomer already talked about it. Kefla was up against a severely weakened God Goku as well btw.

Again, Goku was severely weakened. It was straight up said that if SSJBKK Goku hit Kefla like two times he would win, despite even being severely weakened. She just managed to pull a trick on him. Keep in mind that he was so weakened, he could specifically only last for two hits in his SSJBKK state. If Goku fought Kefla at full energy, he would probably stomp her, not counting the Kefla that fought UI Goku, who was rapidly increasing in strength.

Base Gogeta was able to keep up with Broly, SSJ Gogeta being a match for him. So SSJ1 Vegito alone would be superior to SSJB Goku and Vegeta at their best in the ToP. SSJB would probably be able to tangle with Jiren, unless you think he was, like, billions of times stronger than Goku and Vegeta.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Goku was weakened but still managed to overpower ssj2 Caulifla in base after a zenkai.

 

[Dragomer]

The logic is simple, Kale and Caulifla at base < Goku who is not much stronger than Vegeta so presumably, they are weaker than him too.

So Caulifla and Kale + Potara fusion should be inferior to Goku and Vegeta + Potara fusion. So base to base, Vegito should win.

Base Vegito beating Kefla SSJ2 or SSJ berserk 2 or whatever her form is called is more iffy tho.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Depends on if it's black arc Vegito or a hypothetical ToP arc one.

 

[RinneItachi]

It's arguable. If Gogeta was able to keep up with Broly fairly well before turning SSJ, that implies he would be at least comparable to SSJB Goku and Vegeta at the time, as they were barely keeping up with Broly, even together. If a heavily weakened SSJBKK Goku could two shot SSJ2 Kefla or whatever that form was, and base Vegito would be fairly comparable to a full energy SSJBKK Goku, that would mean base Vegito could very likely stomp Kefla, pre-UI Goku, and would definitely stomp Kefla in SSJ. He would curbstomp Kefla even at her peak if he went higher though, let alone in SSJB.

 

[RinneItachi]

Depends on if it's black arc Vegito or a hypothetical ToP arc one.

Vegito vs Kefla

I actually want y'all opinion on this but in the yt comment section, people think a ToP Base Vegito would mop the floor with Kefla and with the recent retcon of potaro earrings and fusion dance having the same strength, do y'all think Base Vegito would win against Kefla?

The topic is about this question, where he said "ToP Base Vegito".

 

[RinneItachi]

Kefla would curbstomp Black Arc Vegito. We're all talking about a hypothetical ToP Arc Vegito.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

oh

 

[RinneItachi]

Watched the Goku Vs. Kefla fight again. SSJB Goku was actually on par with normal SSJ (Berserk) Kefla, who was extremely impressed despite being pretty arrogant, and SSJBKK Goku was much stronger, he just couldn't last long because he was still weakened and got kicked in the face after a Kamehameha. Base Vegito alone would be able to fight with her, if not defeat her easily. Anything above base would be massive overkill.

 

[ZetaMarishi]

ToP era Vegetto in base probably does well against Kefla, but I imagine she overall wins, assuming she can get to her SSJ2 Berserk state.

If he transforms, though, then he wins. She has no way to catch up, especially if he decides to go overkill and goes either SSJG or SSJB.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Her ssj2 berserk form is no joke. She went from slightly above blue level to UIO level in one transformation.

 

[Dragomer]

Is the Dragon Quest anime worth watching?

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

As someone who's read the manga and currently watching the new anime, the anime is a bit fast paced which works to it's advantage, and in some cases, it's disadvantage (episode 6...).

I personally recommend the manga but if you wish to watch the anime, that's fine too. Dai no Daibouken has kind of that OG Dragon Ball charm to it while still retaining a bit of it's own identity. Overall I really like it and recommend you give it a watch/read, but don't expect it to be some revolutionary series that changes everything hehe (so basically keep your expectations mild).

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

Also, I thought Hit was gonna get a possibly Low 2-C for a tournament of power key?

 

[Nullflowerblush]

We need to upgrade Battle of Gods Saga Goku to Low 2-C already.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

We need to upgrade Battle of Gods Saga Goku to Low 2-C already.

Oh no

 

[RinneItachi]

We need to upgrade Kid Goku to 2-A already.

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

So question for y'all, in all DB media canon or non canon who would you say some of the best versatility for hax?
Mine pick would be Xeno Majin Buu as he has his own powers, plus Demon God Dabura and Janemba's powers

 

[LordTracer]

We need to upgrade Battle of Gods Saga Goku to Low 2-C already.

You can try, I doubt you’ll succeed though.

 

[Roun12]

So question for y'all, in all DB media canon or non canon who would you say some of the best versatility for hax?
Mine pick would be Xeno Majin Buu as he has his own powers, plus Demon God Dabura and Janemba's powers

We generally consider Time Power Unleashed Mechikabura to be the most haxxed Dragon Ball character because absorption lol.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

You can try, I doubt you’ll succeed though.

To be fair, Elder Kai stated Goku and Beerus would turn the universe into a void, with void typically meaning nothing at all is within it.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

We need to upgrade Battle of Gods Saga Goku to Low 2-C already.

Good luck with that

 

[Rikimarox2]

We need to upgrade Battle of Gods Saga Goku to Low 2-C already.

Dew it


It will probably turn into an assfest, but that's why it is fun.

 

[AKM sama]

To be fair, Elder Kai stated Goku and Beerus would turn the universe into a void, with void typically meaning nothing at all is within it.

In that same passage of speech he also described how they were gonna do it, and it was by destroying the planets, stars, and everything in the universe. So the context implies that by void, he just meant emptying the universe of all matter, not the definition we use here.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Thank yoooou. Saved me a CRT.
Now I can move onto the Kamikaze Fireballs.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

In that same passage of speech he also described how they were gonna do it, and it was by destroying the planets, stars, and everything in the universe. So the context implies that by void, he just meant emptying the universe of all matter, not the definition we use here.

Ok Mr. Merger of 3-A and low 2-C.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

oh yeah, let's merge 3-a and low 2-c. i want that.

 

[AKM sama]

Yes, we should do it


soon

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

IDK if I've posted this or not (short term memory loss) but this is hands down one of my favourite DB animations, mainly because it's a different spin on the "good guys beating the bad guys" kind of ordeal like Goku Black vs Future Gohan and it was so tense watching a far more powerful Golden Frieza beat up and cripple Goku multiple times.
Though as a question, how strong do you all think Golden Frieza would be if he trained for 15+ years like in this what if?

 

[LordTracer]

Yes, we should do it


soon

I can’t tell if this is a joke or not, but if it isn’t, I fully support it

 

[RinneItachi]

Frieza covered the gap between his Namek Saga self and his RoF Saga self with only 4 months of training. Frieza's final/base form could keep up with base RoF Goku, also meaning that Golden Frieza should be a similar increase to SSJB. Base RoF Goku>BoG SSJG Goku.

Buu Saga base Goku>Buu Saga base Vegeta. Vegeta curbstomped Pui Pui, who had Supreme Kai worried and on guard, with Vegeta utterly amazing Supreme Kai at his effortless defeat of Pui Pui. Supreme Kai should be able to effortlessly godstomp Frieza, in his own words, so Buu Saga base Vegeta should also be able to effortlessly godstomp Namek Saga Frieza, with Goku scaling above that in just his base form. You also have base Goku being implied as at least close to, possibly above Piccolo, who should be far stronger than when he fought 17, who would obviously one shot Frieza as well. Further supporting the base Saiyan's being superior to Frieza by the Buu Saga.

Even disregarding the fact that Frieza even without Golden Form went from star level to UNIVERSE level in just 4 months of intense training, scaling still gives a good idea of how massively stronger Frieza got in just 4 months of training.

Then you have the fact that his strength increased exponentially just by doing image training for a relatively small period of time, while literally being completely restrained aside from still being able to think.

So after 15+ years of nothing but training, especially if he was training with Cell almost the whole time, Frieza would be able to probably curbstomp the Gods of Destruction, and I'd see him being around Angel level if not beyond it, speaking purely hypothetically of course.

There's no doubt that he would annihilate SSJ4 Goku with a flick of his wrist though.

 

[ZetaMarishi]

Oh boy, canon Dragon Ball back to only one or two people at Tier 2

In all honesty, that just makes more sense to me in general, so that sounds fine if it were to happen.

Also yeah, Freeza's potential be insane. I'm doubtful that he'll always make the same gains that he made in the time since he was brought back up until where he's at now, but it'd still be pretty nutty growth by the end of it.

He'd butcher SSJ4 Goku with zero difficulty. Hell, the anime Freeza can already do that.