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Here's the CRT ( https://vsbattles.com/threads/goku-...the-down-low-dragon-ball.146281/#post-5531465 ), and here's the scan ( ).
The fact Piccolo didn't look at Goku at all when he attacked makes me doubt it was a reaction feat.
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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100
- Thread starter Warren_Valion
- Start date
The fact Piccolo didn't look at Goku at all when he attacked makes me doubt it was a reaction feat.
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Exactly, I also don't think his namekian hearing comes into play since after Goku vanishes, he makes absolutely no sound whatsoever (and as explained in the CRT, the technique is explicitly meant to be quiet) and also to make little to no disturbances in the air (so he also likely wasn't relying on his sense of touch), so enhanced senses likely also isn't the cause.
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Yeah also Goku and Piccolo are basically throwing everything they got each other power and skill wise
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Aren’t piccolo and goku relative here? Thr scans doesn't state he was fte to piccolo? Is it possible piccolo could just see him?
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Like I said, Piccolo was only looking straight the entire time Goku was vanished and attacked him without looking (and remember, he can't sense, hear, or feel him cause of the vanishing technique). When Piccolo looked over to where Goku landed, he was surprised to see that he wasn't there and was unable to even react when Goku appeared next to him and taunted him. It's a speed based technique combined with stealth, not Goku just going invisible.
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If piccolo could see Goku moving around then he doesn’t have to look at him to hit him, as he would already know where he’s ending up. Piccolo is surprised to see that Goku moved because he lost track of him, in the scans we see him turn his head to find Goku because he’s shocked he already got up and moved. If he isn’t tracking him outside of sight he wouldn’t try looking for him after he moves but go back to trying to find him via whatever means he did. Goku only got the drop on him once Piccolo wasn’t looking at him. Piccolo knocks him back and only looks towards Goku position once he hears that he vanished again, only then did Goku get behind him.
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But this is both assuming that he could actually see Goku move and that Goku was only moving within his line of sight, two pretty big assumptions.
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And it's also highly unlikely Goku was only moving in his line of sight since every time Goku has ever tried to surprise attack his enemy in og Dragon Ball, he goes all around the opponent, including behind them. So why would he this time now only move in front of the enemies line of sight when he's trying to surprise attack Piccolo (unless we're also saying that Goku is purposefully baiting Piccolo to hit him, which is also unfounded).
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Idk man, for me at least, I just don't see the point of Goku using the technique if Piccolo was simply capable of reacting to him. Goku is aware that Piccolo can keep up with him and has comparable speeds to his own even when moving at high speeds, so there would be little to no point in Goku using that technique unless a) he's baiting Piccolo, but then that means he's letting himself get hit for the bait, or B) Goku for some reason is only moving around in Piccolos line of sight instead of going in all directions (which would be very stupid on Goku's part, and while he isn't smart usually, he's not an idiot in battle). A is possible but there's little to nothing that hints at that, and b is just stupid.
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or maybe C, goku was doing it effectively, piccolo is just that much of a chad to ignore it
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Basedor maybe C, goku was doing it effectively, piccolo is just that much of a chad to ignore it
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Wtf… this is the weirdest shit I’ve seen that’d just make Buu vs Goku fight more consistent someone needs to make a crt about this and there should be a crt regarding all the top characters who have 2-C justifications or 2-C feats but aren’t rated as such since ive seen a lot of top characters like that if someone does I recommend checking the DB vs battle page and finding the top characters from there
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Yeah. Damn Goku fought a lot of opponent's with this lol
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Y'all like literally I'm about to upgrade like almost everyone in the ToP to 2-C now.
DBS Tournament of Power Upgrades and Revisions.
Okay a whole bunch of these profiles are outdated being in pre 2-C/3-A days so there’s gonna be a lot of potential upgrades
Bergamo, Basil, Lavender
Bergamo should be 2-C
Bergamo stated to be the strongest warrior out of Universe 9 off rip meaning without his Crusher ability he should be stronger than Comfrey who matched Shosa who’s AT LEAST LOW-MULTIVERSE Level
Fought against a Base Goku who was instructed not to hold back and was able to endure a barrage of Goku’s direct punches. He easily overpowered that Base Goku and pushed him to Super Saiyan.
In the Tournament of Power he no sold a combined attack from Base Gohan and Piccolo with the human Z fighters
Bergamo states that in his first fight against Goku that he only used Goku’s power against him and kept back his true power.
Bergamo may be missing Damage Boost
Bergamo is able to power up his fist and kicks to be twice the power of the energy given to him meaning its not his own ki being amplified but the stolen power being doubled.
Lavender should be 2-C
He and his brothers are the strongest of Universe 9 meaning he should be stronger than Comfrey who matched a
2-C Shosa in battle
He was able to keep up with Base Gohan and fight a SSJ Gohan, even matching his Kamehameha, who was still displaying amazing power while poisoned
No sold a combined team attack from the likes of Base Gohan and Piccolo
Keeping up with Base Goku and cornered him and Base Vegeta with the rest of his team with them needing to go SSJ to take the upper hand.
Lavender should have Breath Attack
One of the mechanisms for his Poison is used through his mouth.
Limited Sense Manipulation
Can induce blindness to his opponents via his poison.
Basil and Majin Buu should be 2-C
Basil is a member of the Trio De Danger who are the strongest of Universe 9 and should be comparable to his brothers meaning he should be stronger than Comfrey who matched a
2-C Shosa in battle
Narirama who was troubling 2-Cs like Cabba, Dyspo, Shosa, Ribrianne, Rozie, had his arms broken by Basil and Hit.
Basil also no sold an attack by Base Gohan and Base Piccolo
Majin Buu would scale to Basil obviously and pretty much was getting 2-C justifications from Super Hero which were getting reviewed here
Napapa
Held his own against Basil and stopped his Shining Blast.
Nearly forced SSJ Caulifa off the edge.
Decori possibly 2-C
Decori was one of the individuals that no sold a combined team attack with Shosa, Comfrey (who matched Shosa) and the Trio De Danger who should each be stronger than Shosa
Transformation, Limited Darkness Manipulation and resistance to Extreme Cold for Decori
Decori can transform into a large white haired tentacle monster and she is able to manipulate the shadows of her opponents to prevent them from moving.
Majora and Krillin should be 2-C
Both are comparable to Android 18 with Majora literally having it in his description and Krillin should scale via his fight against Gohan, against Base/SSJ Goku, against Shosa and recently his fight against Cell Max. LLet’sface it you all knew this day would come.
Damon should get a possibly 2-C instead of unknown
His AP description is literally against all 2-C fighters (Defeated Piccolo, moved Android 17 and Base Goku via the element of surprise)
Botamo maybe 2-C but definitely 2-C Durability
Botamo is said to be superior to a full Base Goku who when fighting is comparable to when Whis had them in heavy suits (In which he was able to attacks from Beerus)
Botamo tanked the combine attack of Base Gohan and Piccolo and later with Auta Magetta pushed SSJ Vegeta on the defensive.
Cocette, Casserale, Kettol, Tupper and Zoiray should all be 2-C
literally all of their AP descriptions
DBS Tournament of Power Upgrades and Revisions.
Okay a whole bunch of these profiles are outdated being in pre 2-C/3-A days so there’s gonna be a lot of potential upgrades
Bergamo, Basil, Lavender
Bergamo should be 2-C
Bergamo stated to be the strongest warrior out of Universe 9 off rip meaning without his Crusher ability he should be stronger than Comfrey who matched Shosa who’s AT LEAST LOW-MULTIVERSE Level
Fought against a Base Goku who was instructed not to hold back and was able to endure a barrage of Goku’s direct punches. He easily overpowered that Base Goku and pushed him to Super Saiyan.
In the Tournament of Power he no sold a combined attack from Base Gohan and Piccolo with the human Z fighters
Bergamo states that in his first fight against Goku that he only used Goku’s power against him and kept back his true power.
Bergamo may be missing Damage Boost
Bergamo is able to power up his fist and kicks to be twice the power of the energy given to him meaning its not his own ki being amplified but the stolen power being doubled.
Lavender should be 2-C
He and his brothers are the strongest of Universe 9 meaning he should be stronger than Comfrey who matched a
2-C Shosa in battle
He was able to keep up with Base Gohan and fight a SSJ Gohan, even matching his Kamehameha, who was still displaying amazing power while poisoned
No sold a combined team attack from the likes of Base Gohan and Piccolo
Keeping up with Base Goku and cornered him and Base Vegeta with the rest of his team with them needing to go SSJ to take the upper hand.
Lavender should have Breath Attack
One of the mechanisms for his Poison is used through his mouth.
Limited Sense Manipulation
Can induce blindness to his opponents via his poison.
Basil and Majin Buu should be 2-C
Basil is a member of the Trio De Danger who are the strongest of Universe 9 and should be comparable to his brothers meaning he should be stronger than Comfrey who matched a
2-C Shosa in battle
Narirama who was troubling 2-Cs like Cabba, Dyspo, Shosa, Ribrianne, Rozie, had his arms broken by Basil and Hit.
Basil also no sold an attack by Base Gohan and Base Piccolo
Majin Buu would scale to Basil obviously and pretty much was getting 2-C justifications from Super Hero which were getting reviewed here
Napapa
Held his own against Basil and stopped his Shining Blast.
Nearly forced SSJ Caulifa off the edge.
Decori possibly 2-C
Decori was one of the individuals that no sold a combined team attack with Shosa, Comfrey (who matched Shosa) and the Trio De Danger who should each be stronger than Shosa
Transformation, Limited Darkness Manipulation and resistance to Extreme Cold for Decori
Decori can transform into a large white haired tentacle monster and she is able to manipulate the shadows of her opponents to prevent them from moving.
Majora and Krillin should be 2-C
Both are comparable to Android 18 with Majora literally having it in his description and Krillin should scale via his fight against Gohan, against Base/SSJ Goku, against Shosa and recently his fight against Cell Max. LLet’sface it you all knew this day would come.
Damon should get a possibly 2-C instead of unknown
His AP description is literally against all 2-C fighters (Defeated Piccolo, moved Android 17 and Base Goku via the element of surprise)
Botamo maybe 2-C but definitely 2-C Durability
Botamo is said to be superior to a full Base Goku who when fighting is comparable to when Whis had them in heavy suits (In which he was able to attacks from Beerus)
Botamo tanked the combine attack of Base Gohan and Piccolo and later with Auta Magetta pushed SSJ Vegeta on the defensive.
Cocette, Casserale, Kettol, Tupper and Zoiray should all be 2-C
literally all of their AP descriptions
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And the other argument literally makes this assumption? I said this is possible, we don’t know if Piccolo could see Goku or not, but to assume he could or couldn’t is nothing but an assumption.
JohnCenaNation
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I am so sorry to say this, but I am completely against Human Z-Fighters being 2-C considering that the Dragon Ball staffs and officials openly admitted that the Human Z-Fighter were weaker than both Goten and Trunks during the Tournament of Power. Goten and Trunks has no feats or scaling that put them at 2-C considering that SS3 Gotenks got no diffed by casual base Duplicate Vegeta.
https://www.kanzenshuu.com/translat...-artisans-who-made-the-universe-survival-arc/
Nullflowerblush
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yea
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This makes sense but if Decori should be stronger than Shosha that should be 2-C
And if Botamo is stated to be superior to goku that should be enough for 2-C as well considering UES as well
Majora could be edited since Majora was just forgotten from that one android 18 crt tbh
Also don’t forget to do Sanka Ku and Catopesra into the section for their ap descriptions
Well it’s what he thought Toriyama was intending and he didn’t flat out say goten and trunks are stronger so that’s already an issue and the series entirely contradicts this as well series>WoG also it could refer to their Bp when they turn into gotenks as well which is something they do a lot in super and Vegeta even comments that goten and trunks would be no help in the U6 tournament unless they fused which they weren’t allowed to do so there’s multiple answers to this interview question
is this even WoG toriyama didn’t even state this lmao
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bruh is that even supported in the actual tournament of power, how can we use that as justification?
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you have my support, are you gonna make a crt?
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Humans should know their place as fodder and keep dreaming of tier 4.
JohnCenaNation
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WoG > Human Z-Fighters' feats over a friendly spar, Booster Gold has more feats of causing many Solar System level characters go "oomph" and "ow" with regular blows through out his comic runs but he isn't any much stronger than Batman even with his future technologies. If you are going to upgrade the Human Z-Fighters from them causing slight discomfort to 2-C characters over friendly spars, might as well make Booster God 4-B while you are at it.
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but krillin literally has feats for it bruh, idk about tien but didnt he take hits from a serious base gohan?
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All of Krillinsfeats are against characters who are holding back, or don’t measure up to 2-C by legitimate scaling.
JohnCenaNation
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It's more justifying then scaling Human Z-Fighters over a friend spar of causing 2-C characters slight discomfort.
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Did you ignore my whole post?
idk who booster god is and I don’t really care either 2-C is consistent for Krillin he doesn’t have any anti feats for being 2-C that would make sense with him being High 4-C and friendly spars? We’re scaling Krillin to people he held his own against in t.o.p and if you’re mentioning Goku Krillin actually damaged Goku and forced him to go SSJ until he went SSJB to test Krillin mentally but that’s not even the argument for 2-C either way so that doesn’t matter at all
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Hell I mean Gohan shouldn’t be 2-C until he reawakens Ultimate, quote end quote his ‘old power’ meaning that he was stuck at his previous 4-B peak until he finished training with piccolo, and actually only became 2-C when he fought against SSB Goku, the only argument making him 2-C before that is a friendly spar with SS1 Goku as if Goku didn’t have the ability to hold back massively.
JohnCenaNation
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I mean WoG also mentioned Goku transformed against the Z-Fighters during their friendly spar only for cosmetic purposes just to test their strength. Meaning Goku in this scenario would no different from SSB Goku dying to Sorbet's laser since he wasn't trying to hurt anyone due to Ki control.
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Goku held back in blue, he sure as hell can hold back in SS1 and base forms; Krillin has no legitimate claims for scaling to 2-C.
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How is he WoG again? This isn’t even Toriyama and could you send this scan of that statement and I don’t know how Sorbet vs Goku compares to a spar
His argument for 2-C is holding his own against Majora and damaging her who’s 2-C and again I literally stated this isn’t even the argument that’s being used
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Base Vegeta would one shot SSG Goku in BoG so Base Copy Vegeta stomping SS3 Gotenks says nothing. Not to mention the USS is nearly a year after Copy Vegeta.
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Goku explicitly went Super Saiyan to overpower Krillin's energy wave. If Goku could have escaped without transforming he would have done so.
Super Saiyan Goku > Krillin's Energy Wave > Base Goku = 2-C
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It fails because Krillin only edges out a victory through trickery, 18 being the same class of android as 17 makes her liable to suffer offscreen power increases such as when the latter started as pre tourney SSB levels, but later in the same tournament was showing relative parity to Post UI2 SSB KK20.
BS argument characters can hold themselves back to the point they’re exherting visible effort at their current level see P.Cell vs MSS1 Goku.
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I don’t recall 17 ever being stated to be rivaling 18’s power and vice versa and Android 18 never was on the same level as ssjb kkx20 goku one of Krillin’s justifications is for the Majora reasoning who should be 2-C therefore granting him 2-C
JohnCenaNation
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"I was only in charge of the 17th episode, but Goku, who was scouting around, was fighting not to defeat him, but to find out who he was. Isn't it to get the motivation of the opponent who became blue? That's how I interpret it. We apologize for any misleading expressions." - Yoshitaka
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Bruh… I literally said this isn’t the main argument for 2-C Krillin and it comes from Majora……..
Fezzih_007
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Are we really discussing Krillin multiverse buster?
JohnCenaNation
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In what way does Majora scales to Android 18? All he did was surprise attacked her once after he surprised both Krillin and Android 18 that he is blind and got a warning kick from Android 18. Majority of the time, he was busy fighting Krillin. I don't think Majora and Android 18 actually swap hands with each other to say to the least that they relatively scale to each other.
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