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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

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“And if you use the “God Bird’s” power in that time you can also drastically reduce the time it takes to do all of this. If that happens then the balance of the original universe will be disrupted and obliterated wouldn’t it?

(Explicitly stated that the god birds power just speeds up the time for the copy Universe and doesn’t help make it) Nah both time power and dark ki are needed to make it
 
DBS anime multipliers based on SSG being 500*500 through Vegito scaling.

Multipliers :

Base Goku RoF 100 ( Surpassed his Godly empowered SS1 and destroyed an attack 2x its power while brought down to base during BoG) with

SSB : 1,250,000,000
Base Black: 50,000 ( a match for SS2 Goku even before adapting )

SSR Black : 625,000,000,000x

Enraged SSB Goku: 625,000,000,000x

Vegeta Post HTC : 625,000,000,000x

SSB Vegito: 7.8125e+18 ( assuming base = SSB)

Hit on rematch: 625,000,000,000x ( Killed SSB Goku, whom through Black arc showings grew 500x times his U6 tourney PL far overcoming the need for KK10)

Top SSG Goku initially 625,000,000,000x ( intercepted an attack meant to defeat Hit)

UI 1 Goku : 7.8125e+18

SSB post UI 2: 7.8125e+18

SSB Gogeta: 9.765625e+25

TUI: 9.765625e+25


Multipliers


SSG: 250,000- 500x SS3

SSB: 12,500,000- 50x SSG

UI : 3.125e+12 - 250,000x SSB

MUI: 1.5625e+14- 50x UI
 
Ki attacks definitely do have weight to them at least when the user wants them to. We see characters throwing and being push by them all the time.

Also planning a dragon ball overhaul
 
BlackeJan said:
i think it’s because Jiren was tired as hell and since Base Goku <<<<<<< Jiren everyone thought it didn’t make a bit of sense that Goku could keep up
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Hasn’t the Saiyans shown spontaneous power ups during and after fights though? I mean look at the black Saga.
 
TimmyTurnero said:
Hasn’t the Saiyans shown spontaneous power ups during and after fights though? I mean look at the black Saga.
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I mean it would explain why Base Goku could keep up with Ikari Broly who in mid transformation from his Base form no sold SSJG Vegeta's attack. Also with Jiren being stronger than 17 who has infinite stamina it would definitely vouch for a SSJB amp to Base Goku
 
omegabronic said:
How can you have "layered" analitical prediction? Like, you are predicting something analiticaly, in fact, you can't "resist" someone analising you i am sure
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Maybe like, If the person is so skilled or have a Very unique fighting style, is make hard to predict them, so they get a resistance i guess?
 
omegabronic said:
How can you have "layered" analitical prediction? Like, you are predicting something analiticaly, in fact, you can't "resist" someone analising you i am sure
Click to expand...
I guess it probably works like someone can’t use AP on something but then you use AP and it works because you have a layered version of AP
 
Fezzih_007 said:
Maybe like, If the person is so skilled or have a Very unique fighting style, is make hard to predict them, so they get a resistance i guess?
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That is just you being very skilled, it is not a supernatural resistance that makes you unable to be predicted by anyone, again, how exactly do you "resist" someone analizing you?

TheGodOfICE777 said:
I guess it probably works like someone can’t use AP on something but then you use AP and it works because you have a layered version of AP
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This is not layered "AP" it is simply have more power than the other person and now can destroy it, just like how a lion can destroy a watermelon but an ant can't
 
omegabronic said:
How can you have "layered" analitical prediction? Like, you are predicting something analiticaly, in fact, you can't "resist" someone analising you i am sure
Click to expand...
It says on the Precognition page that it is categorised into Divination and Analytical Prediction. The notable description being:

"Divination struggles with Acausality, for example, while Analytical Prediction is less bothered, only to be trumped by things like a resistance to Information Analysis. Analytical Prediction also only factors in what the user themselves knows and understands,"​
​
So Analytical Prediction is limited by the user's own knowledge/understanding and can be trumped by resistance to Information Analysis. Manga Goku actually has this under his Granolah Saga Ultra Instinct key because Granolah (Who has Information Analysis/Analytical Prediction) couldn't perceive Goku's vitals.

Notably, Information Analysis is an ability with layers. It can be stronger or weaker than other forms of it. So unless I'm misunderstanding something it can be layered with multiple levels of effectiveness, along with multiple layers of resistance.

As a side note it's worth noting that Goku has Analytical Prediction via Hit and a resistance to Information Analysis via Granolah yet Vegeta claims Jiren's Explosive Power makes you 'unreadable' and (as I posted before) Freeza's own Explosive Power made him unreadable to TUI Goku, and that's his control of power not his raw speed. So I'd argue Explosive Power users should have resistance to Information Analysis.
 
CryoTheMayo said:
It says on the Precognition page that it is categorised into Divination and Analytical Prediction. The notable description being:

"Divination struggles with Acausality, for example, while Analytical Prediction is less bothered, only to be trumped by things like a resistance to Information Analysis. Analytical Prediction also only factors in what the user themselves knows and understands,"​
​
So Analytical Prediction is limited by the user's own knowledge/understanding and can be trumped by resistance to Information Analysis. Manga Goku actually has this under his Granolah Saga Ultra Instinct key because Granolah (Who has Information Analysis/Analytical Prediction) couldn't perceive Goku's vitals.

Notably, Information Analysis is an ability with layers. It can be stronger or weaker than other forms of it. So unless I'm misunderstanding something it can be layered with multiple levels of effectiveness, along with multiple layers of resistance.

As a side note it's worth noting that Goku has Analytical Prediction via Hit and a resistance to Information Analysis via Granolah yet Vegeta claims Jiren's Explosive Power makes you 'unreadable' and (as I posted before) Freeza's own Explosive Power made him unreadable to TUI Goku, and that's his control of power not his raw speed. So I'd argue Explosive Power users should have resistance to Information Analysis.
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As a special abbility sure, but how can you resist someone looking at you and drawing a conclusion based on what they are seeing? I suppose thst this is fiction, but still sounds weird
 
omegabronic said:
As a special abbility sure, but how can you resist someone looking at you and drawing a conclusion based on what they are seeing? I suppose thst this is fiction, but still sounds weird
Click to expand...
Depends on how they are reading you. Hit was able to trick Dyspo because he changed the sound or whatever of he's muscles. Some characters can have a "chaotic nature" and that can make them hard to read.
 
omegabronic said:
As a special abbility sure, but how can you resist someone looking at you and drawing a conclusion based on what they are seeing? I suppose thst this is fiction, but still sounds weird
Click to expand...
Depends on how the specific instance of it works. One version is with Game logic where a character can 'Observe' or 'Scan' another character and see their stats but then there is some skill that another character can use to hide their stats or change them. With Granolah, he can read the blood flow and various vitals of other people to predict where they will move and identify weak points, Ultra Instinct counters that due to its instinctive movements but Granolah's ability functions on reading blood flow, how would that work on a totally artificial being like a robot or a golem? It wouldn't. He might be able to read some other signs but he won't be able to predict their movements based off blood that they don't even have.

So how does Goku's Analytical Prediction work? Well his is less directly reliable but would work on totally artificial beings, giving it broader use. Why? Because it's purely mental. He studies Hit's fighting style and can predict what he is going to do, even if he Time Skips 0.1 seconds into the future. He could apply that to almost any other opponent except...well, would that work on Kid Buu? A chaotic monster that has no sense of reason? What actions could Goku predict there? His Analytical Prediction might not work at all on Kid Buu.

So then consider 'Explosive Power' and its 'unreadable' movements. How does that work here? Well, it lets the user go from 0 to 100 to 0 in an instant. Jiren could match UI Goku's movements with it and Freeza is just totally unreadable to TUI Goku. That would imply Goku can't predict them mentally (his experience and battle smarts) or physically (UI instincts). Could Granolah's Analytical Prediction work? Well he could probably perceive their blood flow but that doesn't translate to reading their power fluctuations, so there would be elements he can't understand or predict.

In that sense, Analytical Prediction and Information Analysis can range from a magical power to see literal stats (but not predict moves) to having special eyes able to read a person's vitals and predict what they are about to do based off blood flow (but not know their power) to being capable of just predicting what a person will do with their experience, talent and mind (but unable to see stats or their vitals). Magic, physical ability or just your mastery as a fighter can count as a form of these analytical abilities.

Eliminate the preconception that Analytical Prediction/Information Analysis means you can perceive all information and comprehend all information and it starts to become clear. It's just a broad category of analytical abilities and how they work and how they can be resisted varies on how that analysis is done and what that analysis provides. In the end all it means is "They have an ability to get more information, than other characters can, in some way." and resisting that is simply "They have an ability to hide more information than other characters can, in some way."
 
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