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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

TiltedFN said:
because everybody has pretty much made their mind about what the crack of time is, just a beyond baseline 2-A construct. Thats what got the thread disagreed on for low 1-C. And i don't think that is going to change tbh, and there has been no new evidence in like forever.
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Ah beyond baseline 2-A sized construct is a funny thing if only if that actually existed
 
TheGodOfICE777 said:
Low 1-C Crack of Time is more important tbh I feel like Low 1-C canon db will get denied but Low 1-C CoT is actually reasonable if we had one higher plane statement nobody would be against it lol
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It is easier for DBS to receive an upgrade to low 1-C than DBH, there have been many attempts at DBH and to this day it has been rejected.
 
Let me remind all those who are afraid of the impossibility of Low 1-C Dragon Ball that at one point in time we had 3-A Beerus and now many years later we have a 2-C Buuhan. The Vice Shout feat was forever considered either an outlier of "Tier 3 with Wank" AND NOW ITS LOW MULTIVERSAL. DBH went from being Low 2-C/2-C with it being really decent in 2-A and being filled with hax and only a mere statement away from being Low 1-C and the series not ending anytime soon. The REAL Problem with these threads is that we do such a poor job addressing the dumbest of Counter Arguments and bring up very bad examples and try to pull the "WELL THIS VERSE HAS IT..." Card
 
AwkguyDB said:
Let me remind all those who are afraid of the impossibility of Low 1-C Dragon Ball that at one point in time we had 3-A Beerus and now many years later we have a 2-C Buuhan. The Vice Shout feat was forever considered either an outlier of "Tier 3 with Wank" AND NOW ITS LOW MULTIVERSAL. DBH went from being Low 2-C/2-C with it being really decent in 2-A and being filled with hax and only a mere statement away from being Low 1-C and the series not ending anytime soon. The REAL Problem with these threads is that we do such a poor job addressing the dumbest of Counter Arguments and bring up very bad examples and try to pull the "WELL THIS VERSE HAS IT..." Card
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Exactly, people should make preparations first, organize the points in groups, and explain in detail the points, if the logic is solid other verses examples should not be nescessary at all
 
Like let's run through upgrades in here, we can make sandboxes right? We can bring it up here and then address the arguments. Me and a few others did that for DBH which is why those threads were so quick to get accepted and applied (I made the Laggs and Kamioren pages and did the overhaul on Trunks, Hearts and Cumber when upgrades got accepted)
 
We also used to list out the order of priority of the upgrades too.
As far as I can see there are several DB CRTs that are still awaiting staff approval:

My SSJG multiplier
Size of the Afterlife Calc
Null's Cell Saga scaling chain
2-C Goten and Trunks/ Majin Buu
Goku's Resistances
 
AwkguyDB said:
Like let's run through upgrades in here, we can make sandboxes right? We can bring it up here and then address the arguments. Me and a few others did that for DBH which is why those threads were so quick to get accepted and applied (I made the Laggs and Kamioren pages and did the overhaul on Trunks, Hearts and Cumber when upgrades got accepted)
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You got discord?
AwkguyDB said:
We also used to list out the order of priority of the upgrades too.
As far as I can see there are several DB CRTs that are still awaiting staff approval:

My SSJG multiplier
Size of the Afterlife Calc
Null's Cell Saga scaling chain
2-C Goten and Trunks/ Majin Buu
Goku's Resistances
Click to expand...
Goku resistances is applied
 
Something I find a little interesting is that Goku and Vegeta clearly don't recognise Freeza's transformation with them even asking how Freeza killed Gas when it seems like Freeza did transform into Black when killing Gas. Notably Goku was in TUI when that happened, and UI gives the user vastly superior agility so his own perception should be significantly superior to Vegeta.

That does tie into Vegeta recently mentioning Explosive Power from Jiren and tying it into characters like Freeza but the thing is that Jiren's version only let him match UI Goku's movements whereas Freeza can seemingly transform and revert so insanely fast that not even TUI Goku can perceive it happening or understand how Freeza could have even done it in the first place. Meaning Freeza's power control is so advanced that his power is truly unreadable to even a UI-user.

You could argue that's just Black Freeza's raw speed in the actual attack but my point is that Freeza had to go from Base -> Black -> Base in such a ridiculously short burst that not even Ultra Instinct is capable of perceiving the power changes, and if the colors are accurate then Freeza's aura doesn't even change and he's already reverting the moment his arm is through Gas's chest.

There is also the point that Goku has a hardening ability via UI yet Black Freeza deals the same amount of damage to him as Vegeta. That could be plot convenience, Vegeta being more durable, Freeza just having that level of control punching at the same time or Freeza being so fast that Goku couldn't even harden his body in time.

So, Freeza can go 0 to 100 to 0 so fast that even TUI Goku (Who has Analytical Prediction, enhanced agility, Instinctive Action, resistance to Information Analysis) can't even perceive it and possibly so fast physically that Goku can't act in time to harden.
 
CryoTheMayo said:
Something I find a little interesting is that Goku and Vegeta clearly don't recognise Freeza's transformation with them even asking how Freeza killed Gas when it seems like Freeza did transform into Black when killing Gas. Notably Goku was in TUI when that happened, and UI gives the user vastly superior agility so his own perception should be significantly superior to Vegeta.

That does tie into Vegeta recently mentioning Explosive Power from Jiren and tying it into characters like Freeza but the thing is that Jiren's version only let him match UI Goku's movements whereas Freeza can seemingly transform and revert so insanely fast that not even TUI Goku can perceive it happening or understand how Freeza could have even done it in the first place. Meaning Freeza's power control is so advanced that his power is truly unreadable to even a UI-user.

You could argue that's just Black Freeza's raw speed in the actual attack but my point is that Freeza had to go from Base -> Black -> Base in such a ridiculously short burst that not even Ultra Instinct is capable of perceiving the power changes, and if the colors are accurate then Freeza's aura doesn't even change and he's already reverting the moment his arm is through Gas's chest.

There is also the point that Goku has a hardening ability via UI yet Black Freeza deals the same amount of damage to him as Vegeta. That could be plot convenience, Vegeta being more durable, Freeza just having that level of control punching at the same time or Freeza being so fast that Goku couldn't even harden his body in time.

So, Freeza can go 0 to 100 to 0 so fast that even TUI Goku (Who has Analytical Prediction, enhanced agility, Instinctive Action, resistance to Information Analysis) can't even perceive it and possibly so fast physically that Goku can't act in time to harden.
Click to expand...
i was thinking about that to, he transformed and de transformed so fast that his body and energy couldn't even keep up with it, like what the ****? Hes literally perception blitz levels above goku and vegeta just casually.
 
Can someone send scans for DBH abilities about PowerNull? I'm discussing with a person on Versus thread with Xeno Goku, and his is asking for Scan to why is passive.
 
TiltedFN said:
i was thinking about that to, he transformed and de transformed so fast that his body and energy couldn't even keep up with it, like what the ****? Hes literally perception blitz levels above goku and vegeta just casually.
Click to expand...
Yeah and I could be wrong but I'm not so sure power control scales up with your physical speed. So I don't think Freeza's power being that fast is a power difference, it should just be a pure difference in control (like how Vegeta explained recently). Jiren was able to fight Ultra Instinct on par thanks to it but Freeza's power seems to explode so fast that it just hard counters Ultra Instinct.

In theory I'm not so sure if UI Goku could even begin to act in response to Black Freeza's power, even if they were speed equalised. His power is just so unreadable that Goku's body likely wouldn't even respond.
 
CryoTheMayo said:
Yeah and I could be wrong but I'm not so sure power control scales up with your physical speed. So I don't think Freeza's power being that fast is a power difference, it should just be a pure difference in control (like how Vegeta explained recently). Jiren was able to fight Ultra Instinct on par thanks to it but Freeza's power seems to explode so fast that it just hard counters Ultra Instinct.

In theory I'm not so sure if UI Goku could even begin to act in response to Black Freeza's power, even if they were speed equalised. His power is just so unreadable that Goku's body likely wouldn't even respond.
Click to expand...
And this opens up so many possibility's for frieza, being able to transform nigh instantly, and react to and counter attacks without his opponents even realizing wth is going on, he fixed his stamina drain also.
 
TiltedFN said:
And this opens up so many possibility's for frieza, being able to transform nigh instantly, and react to and counter attacks without his opponents even realizing wth is going on, he fixed his stamina drain also.
Click to expand...
Notably if Freeza has this level of control then he presumably also has Spirit Control which could open up technique options. Imagine Freeza with this level of power control using Instant Transmission or something.

Thing is, if this does hard counter Ultra Instinct then it seems the only way for a UI user to challenge Freeza is by having Explosive Power on the same level. I'm just not so sure that Goku is even going to develop it, the SH movie made it look like only Vegeta is going to do it.

Either way Freeza was like this in Granolah. He's had another 2ish years by the time of SH and he still has a HTC to play with. Kinda scary to think of what he could have developed since then.
 
CryoTheMayo said:
Notably if Freeza has this level of control then he presumably also has Spirit Control which could open up technique options. Imagine Freeza with this level of power control using Instant Transmission or something.

Thing is, if this does hard counter Ultra Instinct then it seems the only way for a UI user to challenge Freeza is by having Explosive Power on the same level. I'm just not so sure that Goku is even going to develop it, the SH movie made it look like only Vegeta is going to do it.

Either way Freeza was like this in Granolah. He's had another 2ish years by the time of SH and he still has a HTC to play with. Kinda scary to think of what he could have developed since then.
Click to expand...
yeah i have no idea how frieza is going to be taken down, only option is fusion, but even with that, frieza saw their new forms and is aware of fusion, yet still left them alive, i want to get off this superhero arc so badly.
 
TiltedFN said:
yeah i have no idea how frieza is going to be taken down, only option is fusion, but even with that, frieza saw their new forms and is aware of fusion, yet still left them alive, i want to get off this superhero arc so badly.
Click to expand...
It'd feel strange if Fusion worked. If Freeza knows about it, claims to 'know everything' and is preparing specifically to never lose to the saiyans again he should have prepared for Fusion by now. He could even access the Moro Saga data from OG-73 and learn about Vegeta's Spirit Fission.

Honestly, Toyo is writing himself into a corner here. Freeza is too powerful, too talented, too resourceful and too knowledgeable to fall to any of the usual tricks or toys that the saiyans have. And the time skip between Granolah and SH is too large, especially with a HTC available. I feel like the only option is Broly mastering his power.

Oh and the SH arc? Yeah I'm so pessimistic at this point I expect them to announce another 4 month hiatus after its done.
 
CryoTheMayo said:
It'd feel strange if Fusion worked. If Freeza knows about it, claims to 'know everything' and is preparing specifically to never lose to the saiyans again he should have prepared for Fusion by now. He could even access the Moro Saga data from OG-73 and learn about Vegeta's Spirit Fission.

Honestly, Toyo is writing himself into a corner here. Freeza is too powerful, too talented, too resourceful and too knowledgeable to fall to any of the usual tricks or toys that the saiyans have. And the time skip between Granolah and SH is too large, especially with a HTC available. I feel like the only option is Broly mastering his power.

Oh and the SH arc? Yeah I'm so pessimistic at this point I expect them to announce another 4 month hiatus after its done.
Click to expand...
yeah like i don't even think beerus could beat him tbh, toyo is gonna have to buff the SHIT out of goku, vegeta, and broly, or give frieza a massive weakness, which i couldn't even begin to fathom what that would be.
 
TiltedFN said:
yeah like i don't even think beerus could beat him tbh, toyo is gonna have to buff the SHIT out of goku, vegeta, and broly, or give frieza a massive weakness, which i couldn't even begin to fathom what that would be.
Click to expand...
The Omni-Kings force them to battle in an epic game of basketball (with no Ki) and Freeza's height cripples him.
 
CraigTucker said:
Nah he gets beat by Ultra Ego Vegito
Click to expand...
Nah, gohan turns into calvo form and beats him with his pinky
images
 
Honestly jokes aside True Ultra Demon Vegito form and the other form with a janemba tail is the only form that actually look good
 
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