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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

Db downgrade threads a so toxic, a bunch of people there look like 14 year olds, but saying that it is over before the op could counter argue, like, tf dudes? Can't you disagree without being condencending as shit?
 
omegabronic said:
Db downgrade threads a so toxic, a bunch of people there look like 14 year olds, but saying that it is over before the op could counter argue, like, tf dudes? Can't you disagree without being condencending as shit?
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Will I agree civility needs to be enforced more, I'm the one guy whose been trying to keep everyone in check, it would be ridiculous to say that's everyone, and to frank, the CRT sucks. I can understand some people's frustration at DB constantly being hassled with downgrades. Its a little tone deaf at this point to be appalled and clutch pearls like 'where is this coming from' when it took over 3 years to get DBS to 2C. Again, not justifying it, I agree with you, but don't generalize even if your a DB opponent or supporters.
 
XXBenShapiroXx said:
Will I agree civility needs to be enforced more, I'm the one guy whose been trying to keep everyone in check, it would be ridiculous to say that's everyone, and to frank, the CRT sucks. I can understand some people's frustration at DB constantly being hassled with downgrades. Its a little tone deaf at this point to be appalled and clutch pearls like 'where is this coming from' when it took over 3 years to get DBS to 2C. Again, not justifying it, I agree with you, but don't generalize even if your a DB opponent or supporters.
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I think a pretty massive part of it is a kneejerk reaction to trying to downgrade Dragon Ball to 3-A, even titling it 'Dragon Ball: 3-A Macrocosm'. Not to mention the contents of the revision are so massive and widereaching for the franchise you'd expect multiple separate revision threads for the different arguments he makes in the post. Not lumping them all together into one abomination.

Now this might be 'toxic' from me but given the contents of the revision and the title? I honestly looked at it and thought "Yeah, this guy is ragebaiting."
 
CryoTheMayo said:
I think a pretty massive part of it is a kneejerk reaction to trying to downgrade Dragon Ball to 3-A, even titling it 'Dragon Ball: 3-A Macrocosm'. Not to mention the contents of the revision are so massive and widereaching for the franchise you'd expect multiple separate revision threads for the different arguments he makes in the post. Not lumping them all together into one abomination.

Now this might be 'toxic' from me but given the contents of the revision and the title? I honestly looked at it and thought "Yeah, this guy is ragebaiting."
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its frustrating because its the same shit we have been through already, no actual counters, arguing semantics yet again and lacking the knowledge of spacetime, obviously that doesn't warrant insults, but its tiering nonetheless.
 
TiltedFN said:
its frustrating because its the same shit we have been through already, no actual counters, arguing semantics yet again and lacking the knowledge of spacetime, obviously that doesn't warrant insults, but its tiering nonetheless.
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Dude, he hasn't even made a response yet, how tf can anyone say that
He "has no counters"? Like, will it kill you people to just talk normally like normal persons and not be condecending? Is that asking too much?
 
omegabronic said:
Dude, he hasn't even made a response yet, how tf can anyone say that
He "has no counters"? Like, will it kill you people to just talk normally like normal persons and not be condecending? Is that asking too much?
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i didnt mean it like that, i meant in the actual OP, the counters werent good, i just worded that wrong. Im not talking about how he hasn't responded yet. You need to chill, i wasnt being rude or anything.
 
CryoTheMayo said:
Assuming Vegeta's comment on physical limits is here to stay, they should already be on par with Beerus, The Angels and even the Grand Priest in raw physical power. The issue with them is that they need to learn to make the most of their power and wield it to its maximum potential. Freeza would be the closest to the Angels because he hit that physical limit but also has had extensive training in Explosive Power and 2 more years with a HTC to refine his control further, he basically only lacks something like Ultra Instinct's skill and agility.

Granted this does bring up the point of Ultra Ego but my guess is that it simply uncaps Vegeta's Ki capacity and it expands while using it. That'd mean Vegeta can uniquely increase his raw stats beyond his physical limits whereas Goku's Ultra Instinct is stuck with capped stats in exchange for mastering his body. There's also the implication that Goku's Ki avatar is Goku's Ki expanding past his physical limits.

Either way 'physical limit' doesn't mean their power can't grow any further, just that their physical training won't do much for them.
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Yeah I get that but it’s still relying on transformations. They not ONCE beat anyone in base form which is honestly sad
 
CryoTheMayo said:
I know everyone is going insane in that thread but I have a question, are there any abilities or upgrades that 'Explosive Power' could give us? The basic idea is going from 0 to 100 to 0 which makes your moves unreadable and maximises stamina. It'd apply to Jiren, Broly, Moro, Gas and Freeza (Vegeta when he properly learns it).
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It would give you resistance to prediction at the most.
 
Damage3245 said:
I'm 99% sure this guideline would go against it:
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Regardless, the multiplier should have sufficient enough backing to be accepted, like with the Super Saiyan multiplier.
However, a good statement alone is not enough to get a high multiplier accepted. The amount of extra evidence one has to provide to get larger multipliers accepted is proportional to the size of the multiplier. For lower multipliers, like things much less than times 100, evidence can take the form of a clear increase in combat strength against priorly equal or superior opponents.
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(i.e., Second Grade Trunks ~< Super Vegeta <<< [no-sell range] suppressed Perfect Cell < less suppressed Perfect Cell <<< [no-sell range] Super Trunks < even less suppressed Perfect Cell < full power Super Trunks)
 
I'm hesitant to using characters to determine power boost because I mean I think power increases that were 2x were deemed as inconceivable. What I would love to do is try to gather all statements of every form that doesn't have a multiplier and see if we can gauge whether it's a big increase or small increase. I did some research of my own using the DB and DBS Manga to see what could be inferred. Nothing solid but info nonetheless.
​
Super Saiyan 2 ​
Consistently SSJ2 on its own has been viewed as a not too significant increase when compared to greater power.​
​
Babidi in comparison to Boo remarks that there wasn't much of a change at all between SSJ1 and 2. (DB Chapter 473 ~ Goku meets Boo)​
​
Beerus was unimpressed in the manga and questioned if that was all Goku had to offer. Later in the spar against Trunks and Goku, Beerus had to make sure if it was SSJ2 version to which Whis responded with "Most Likely" clearly showing that they don't see a huge difference between SSJ1 and SSJ2. (DBS Chapter 2 ~ Goku's Defeat and DBS Chapter 14 ~ SOS From The Future)​
​
Zeno was even confused on if he changed or not stating he felt no real difference between SSJ and SSJ2 (DBS Chapter 29 ~ Toppo, Universe 11 God of Destruction Candidate!)​
​
Only when its powered up by rage (in the case of Gohan's initial SSJ2 transformation and Vegeta's Rage against Beerus) or special training (In the case of Trunks) does it seem to garner some level of attention.​
​
Super Saiyan 3​
SSJ3 is pretty much viewed as otherworldly and is the Pinnacle of Saiyan strength outside of character specific amps and transformations being taken account. In canon with its mere power being felt throughout the Universe, the residual ki shaking the entire planet itself, in the movies shaking even the Massive Afterlife. This power is almost always looked at as a massive or impressive increase:​
​
All of the Z cast were in utter shock at the increase and incredible power of the SSJ3 transformation, from Roshi not even recognizing Goku in comparison to his prior power, Gohan mentioning that it was impossible for it to be Goku, Kibito also mentioning that his ki being felt from the Kaioshin Realm was unbelievable. (DB Chapter 474~The Limit, Super Saiyan 3)​
​
Babidi now concerned that Majin Boo, his once invincible monster in comparison to SSJ2s, would be destroyed by this new power (DB Chapter 474~The Limit, Super Saiyan 3)​
​
Vegeta in the Buu Saga remarked he couldn't even come close to SSJ3's power though he fought evenly matched with Goku's SSJ2 ​
(DB Chapter 509~Battle For The Universe)​
​
Beerus remarking that the form was a "not bad" increase on the lackluster SSJ2 (DBS Chapter 2~Goku's Defeat)​
​
Trunks mentions that the power of SSJ3 seemed "impossible", meaning the increase has to be far greater than the jump between SSJ and SSJ2 and maybe one can make the argument of being better than the gap between Base and SSJ2. (DBS Chapter 14 ~ SOS From The Future​
​
Zeno now states that Goku looks scarier and more entertaining in his SSJ3 state than in his SSJ2 form. (DBS Chapter 29 ~ Toppo, Universe 11 God of Destruction Candidate!)​
​
So overall though we don't have definitive multipliers we do have consistent responses that should give SSJ3 afar greater a boost than any other transformation prior.​
​
Super Saiyan God ​
SSJG has been pretty much the gap closer between Goku and Vegeta and god tier fighters. This power put them feat wise in the realm that was typically attributed to only Destroyers. Where SSJ3 appeared other worldly in most cases, SSJG is just in a realm seemingly unreachable (at first).​
​
Goku states SSJG is a world of power he's never felt before, putting SSJG higher than even his fusion into SSJ Vegito (only regarding to that power at the time since Vegito is exponential depending on both of the fusion participants' potentials) this should actually put SSJG at a 50x SSJ3 at least actually. (DBS Chapter 4 ~ Battle of Gods)​
​
Beerus and the other gods seem to be impressed with Goku's initial SSJG power fearing the entirety of the Universe would be destroyed simply by the mere clashing in power and Beerus touting that it has been the hardest he's ever tried in a battle (which I know isn't saying much but in comparison to SSJ3 its something I guess.) (DBS Chapter 4 ~ Battle of Gods)​
​
SSJG Goku was roughly greater than a tenth of the power of incomplete Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta in the manga and took a Goku who in SSJ was getting worn out by a Hit that clapped SSJB Vegeta to him basically stomping Hit till he increased his Time Skip abilities.​
(DBS Chapter 13 ~ A Winning Universe Decided)​
​
Goku states in his fight with Toppo that pass SSJ3 he would be in an entirely different world of power once transformed into SSJG and Beerus mentions that he's actually a match for Toppo who himself powered up with god ki from his Base form which was stomping SSJ3. Meaning the gap between SSJ3 - SSJG is greater than the difference of Base Toppo and Toppo with divine energy. (DBS Chapter 29 ~ Toppo, Universe 11 God of Destruction Candidate!)
​
This is pretty much what I can dig up on the forms using the DBZ and DBS Manga, I'm sure there's statements and feats in the anime and the non canon material like GT and the movies not to mention video games and stuff.​
 
XXBenShapiroXx said:
Dude Luffy missed a massive CRT, bro gonna wake up miffed. Quick, everyone actually act like the CRT got accepted and start asking him 'where were you?' when he gets back. 💀
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💀 That thread was utter garbo. Had this guy made it first over the High 3-A thread he may have had some staff support because we didn't have like 4 CRT backing up the rating.
 
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