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He asked Gohan to gather all of his power and fire a very strong attack that's literally what he said, which clearly shows that a full powered ultimate Gohan (after eating the senzu) surpassed Orange Piccolo
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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100
- Thread starter Warren_Valion
- Start date
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Looking at it that way, it's better to understand, good explanation. I want to see now how the level of mystic / bestial gohan and piccolo orange will be compared to goku and vegeta. I saw that Akira mentions that piccolo Orange had reached the level of goku, if this is taken literally in the manga, it will be glory days for the namekuseijin.
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The holding back excuse doesn't really make sense when She almost smacked Toppo out of the ring when he fully saw the attack coming, who as we know at max power was definitively above a CSSB Goku just prior to the ToP.
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It's been so long since piccolo hasn't reached the goku level, the last time was there in the cell saga.
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Are piccolo and Gohan gonna have a manga profile ?
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Vados had mentioned that no one in the arena could with kefla, which I consider hyperbole. If that was the case it would make kefla be above a suppressed jiren who already had beat up Goku and hitto at the same time lol.
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Orange Piccolo should be at least on the same level as UI Goku in Moro. It's a bit hard to say how he scales in terms of Granolah because SH was produced and released alongside the Moro Saga instead and Toyotaro seems to be tip-toeing around scaling SH and Granolah top tiers. Gohan Beast I'm not even going to bother touching until the next arc scales him.
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Jiren had taken a kamehameha at close range and didn't even feel it.
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^^^^^
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Seeing the characters' power levels, I just think how op universe 7 currently is compared to other universes lol. If there was a power 2.0 tournament, universe 7 would have so many strong fighters, from granola to broly that hadn't appeared at the top.
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I would like to, but I don't know if anyone would be willing to create it, and I don't even know if it's allowed.
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Except she did zero damage to Toppo or Vegeta in that scene. All she did was knock them away. And that's her going berserk at maximum power. Vegeta even later shows up and breaks down how Kale is flawed and can be defeated, showing he already knows how to defeat her. Later than that, he fights Toppo one-on-one and they bruise and bloody eachother badly, showing they can harm eachother whereas Kale's maximum power left them unharmed. There's also the entire part where Vegeta and Toppo are consciously holding back to avoid running out of stamina in the tournament.
So overall your only evidence is Kale not harming them, just smashing them away when they weren't going all out.
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Speaking of DBS: Super Hero in the manga continuity, Vegeta emulating Jiren's conservative fighting style is iffy considering the principle of Ultra Ego
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A ToP 2.0 is dependent on things like how the other universes developed since the ToP, if the other four universes had some secrets and whether or not the erased six universes were brought back and were even stronger than U11.
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At the very least the Gammas are comparable to SSJB Goku and Vegeta either Moro Arc or Broly Movie.
Which regardless should put Ultimate Gohan and Orange Piccolo around or over SSJBE levels of power of that time and putting Beast Gohan in the UI levels (Moro Arc going off the manga) at the very least.
Thus Goku and Vegeta should be FAR STRONGER considering the jump from the Granolah Saga and the amount of time spent training with Whis and Broly.
Which regardless should put Ultimate Gohan and Orange Piccolo around or over SSJBE levels of power of that time and putting Beast Gohan in the UI levels (Moro Arc going off the manga) at the very least.
Thus Goku and Vegeta should be FAR STRONGER considering the jump from the Granolah Saga and the amount of time spent training with Whis and Broly.
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I disagree. The biggest flaw with Ultra Ego is that the user takes a lot of damage and exhausts themselves over a long battle. Jiren's 'Explosive Power' style basically lets you maintain stamina in long fights and you learn to make the most of your power even at low stamina. It basically lets Vegeta make the most of Ultra Ego's power.
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I wouldn't doubt that if we inserted the current Saiyans in the Tournament of Power of that time, Goku and Vegeta probably could mop with Base Forms maybe needing Super Saiyan against Jiren
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Its iffy narratively when you consider its eerily similar to Ultra Instinct, despite the narrative purpose of Ultra Ego being Vegeta's own path
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If Base Goten gets his scaling from the movie in the manga, I could unironically push for 2-C Base Goten. From there I could scale him and argue that Base Goten solos the ToP.
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Maybe? In the end to me it's just advanced power control and movements. It isn't related to instinctive movement, boosted agility, hardening in response to trauma, etc.
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Wait how does the movie scaling go lol
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Yeah not gonna happen
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Did any major CRTs happen after I took some time for myself?
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They'll still need Blue or more against Jiren considering hes still regarded as a powerhouse and if DBS SH Blues are still Orange Piccolo level who is relative to Jiren.
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I wondered if Vegito Blue and Fused Zamasu could scale to 2 GoDs 6 universe feat bc of Gowasu statement that their fight was beyond their understanding of the gods I'm sure the fact that two GoDs fighting each other would destroy two universes was a well known fact in-verse
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SS1 Gohan consistently scales to Ultimate Piccolo in the Gamma fights. Base Goten and Base Trunks show up and are shown fighting alongside SS1 Gohan and Ultimate Piccolo and keeping up in both speed and power and we even have things like Base Goten's Kamehameha knocking Cell Max over mid-fall when Ultimate Piccolo's attacks weren't knocking him around. Then when they fuse together, Failed Gotenks' body cracked Cell Max's head when Ultimate Piccolo's full power blast did nothing.
Failed Gotenks >> Ultimate Piccolo >/= SS1 Gohan >/= Base Goten = Base Trunks >>>> Base Gohan = 2-C
The only arguments I've seen against this is 'it's an outlier' (for it to be an outlier there would need to be contradictory scaling, there is no contradictory scaling for Teen Goten and Trunks) and people just not liking the idea.
It won't but that's only because people can't accept the facts. 2-C Base Goten and Base Trunks is a mental flashbang.
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LB Jiren < Enraged UI Goku <<< Cell Max
Orange Piccolo ~ DBS:SH SSB < Cell Max
They're only gonna need Super Saiyan Blue
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One thing DBS:SH does well is show the importance of Ki control and why 2-C level fighters can gracefully attack without destroying a single building. A common and consistent theme in DB which I love because the Universe getting destroyed every single punch that gets thrown would be stupid.
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fair point, makes you think how strong Jiren truly was at the end of the day and how relative Current SSJBs are to ToP MUI
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Potential Unleashed Piccolo shitcanned a suppressed Gamma 2 who at that point should've been on the level of Super Saiyan Gohan
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And why exactly would Gamma 2 be on the level of SS1 Gohan while suppressed? Gamma 1 vs SS1 Gohan was much closer than Gamma 2 destroying Ultimate Piccolo and there are even statements that Gamma 1 was actively adapting to Gohan's power and fighting style. Hell, what's even your proof that Gamma 2 was suppressing his power? Again, it's stated that the Gammas learn as they fight.
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Well, let's see... Gamma 2 saying he hadn't been using his full power and Gohan being able to contend with the varying levels of Gamma 1 at all
Gamma 1 was suppressed against Super Saiyan Gohan, obviously until he started stomping him. Him having superb adaptational skills doesn't dispute him holding back, especially when you consider what Gamma 2 said
Gamma 2 was at full power against Potential Unleashed Piccolo and had the advantage
Gamma 2 confidently deciding to help against Potential Unleashed Gohan while not having unleashed his power yet kinda puts him on the level of Super Saiyan Gohan
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Then we have Base Kefla easily handling SSJG Goku, which seems to contradict this
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Goku states in his fight against Toppo in the manga that 3 to SSJG is an entirely different level so I would assume it would mean SSJG Jump from 3 is greater than any transformation power jump prior.
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Gamma 1 also says to Super Saiyan Gohan "your power is within parameters" while still going blow for blow with him. He's most definitely suppressing his power
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I have the movie right here subtitled so I'm going through it.
From there all we're left with is an assumption that maybe Gamma 2 adapted to Ultimate Piccolo wordlessly but that would only be equivalent to SS1 Gohan forcing Gamma 1 to adapt to him. Meaning SS1 Gohan and Ultimate Piccolo are both relative in forcing Gamma 1 and Gamma 2 to adapt to their powers to start stomping them.
It's overall pretty clear that Ultimate Piccolo and SS1 Gohan are relative.
- Gamma 2 never states he was holding back, he just states Piccolo still doesn't stand a chance
- Your disbelief at Gohan contending with Gamma 1 is just your own disbelief, it has no basis in fact
- Your claim that Gamma 1 was suppressing seems to be present nowhere in the movie
- Gamma 1 starts stomping SS1 Gohan after Piccolo states the Gammas are the type to adapt to their opponent, the narrative structure there is very clear.
- Gamma 2 wasn't at 'full power' against PU Piccolo, we clearly see Gamma 2's maximum power enables him to blow apart Cell Max
- Gamma 2 only displays seriousness when he is sent to fight Gohan, there are no cocky or confident statements. Just him going in to help his brother.
From there all we're left with is an assumption that maybe Gamma 2 adapted to Ultimate Piccolo wordlessly but that would only be equivalent to SS1 Gohan forcing Gamma 1 to adapt to him. Meaning SS1 Gohan and Ultimate Piccolo are both relative in forcing Gamma 1 and Gamma 2 to adapt to their powers to start stomping them.
It's overall pretty clear that Ultimate Piccolo and SS1 Gohan are relative.
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I'm not seeing that anywhere. All he states is that he was expecting Gohan's transformation shortly after Gohan goes Super Saiyan. Later on he questions the limits of Gohan's power and starts beating him around but that's after Piccolo states Gamma 1 is the type to adapt to his opponent as he fights, meaning Gamma 1 was growing stronger.
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Wasn't Kale stronger than ssj3? I don't remember very well, but I think it was. Perhaps that could explain why the kefla base was so strong.
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The anime makes it very clear that only ssj god could have a formidable fight with bills at that moment, goku himself discards the fusion.
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