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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100
- Thread starter Warren_Valion
- Start date
this
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Nice, so Low 2-C Beast Gohan, Cell Max, Orange Piccolo, Beyond Limits Gamma 2, and maybe possibly Gotenks, but I doubt that last one.
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So scaling wise Beast Gohan > Beyond Limit Gamma 2 > Cell Max > FP SSJ Broly =/> Orange Piccolo (Orange Piccolo is either equal or a little below FP SSJ Broly).
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I can not believe that Toriyama finally said that himself about Piccolo! Really glad. Being on the level or above FP SSJ Broly is really strong.
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True! Ultimate Piccolo & Ultimate Gohan are the "SSB" versions.
So now the Ultra forms are UI, UE, Orange Piccolo and Beast Gohan.
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Yeah, taking into account Power unleashed Piccolo (First form) is as strong as Mystic Gohan, who in DBS is on par with SSB Goku.
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Eh, I don't think he's as strong as Ultimate Gohan.
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So...beast gohan and gogeta are comparable in power now?
SirAlex09
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Not really. Rusty Mystic Gohan was overpowering Gamma 1 with a slight edge while Gamma 2 was beating "Mystic" Piccolo with moderate difficulty
Also I don't want to sound rude but are you guys ignoring the whole " If he had been completed"- part. He was prematurely activated. That's why the Cell max we saw doesn't scale above Fp SSJ Broly...at least not based on the statement provided here..
SirAlex09
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Yah but just going beserk isn't as effective as consciously using your power to full efficacy. So his power output was unquantifiably worse ... I mean Broly goes beserk as well .. that's basically his fighting style and if both use the same "style", the stronger one should win right?
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It's a rather specific comment, and as we know from ki in Dragon Ball (True Golden Frieza, etc) the mind makes up an important part of how powerful you are.
Nullflowerblush
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If Cell Max is an uncontrollable, mindless beast, then logically, the concept of holding back should be non-existent to it, no?
Nullflowerblush
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True Golden Frieza isn't more "powerful" than the barebones Golden Frieza. The only difference lies in Ki Control, ridding the transformation of the egregious stamina drain that the original version suffered from.
SirAlex09
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Manually raising your power level and amplifying and concentrating your power in quick bursts isn't a no brainer. In fact Piccolo tells him that he is stomping him because of exactly that reason.
Ginyu in Goku's body proves this as well. He was stuck at 23k and couldn't raise it 60k and you are expecting a mindless monster to make fully use of his power?! XD
In Dbs we have an other example with kale. Calm Kale was stated to have a higher power output...
I could go on...
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Vietthai96
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Lmao
SirAlex09
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There was an implied power increase from both Frieza's dialogue on his power, Goku's dialogue which described him as not being the only one to get stronger, etc.
But regardless, the mind has been stated to make up a significant amount of ki, and thus power in Dragon Ball.
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But Cell Max was literally able to do a charged up energy sphere the size of a moon and condense down to a size comparable to himself. So he clearly does have a certain level of Ki control. So just because his mind is going berserk doesn't mean that he suddenly can't control his power. And not only that, but he was able to identify that Gohan was a threat to his life right before Gohan went into Beast mode and went to deal with him over the others, so he's not just a mentally ******** creature that cannot think at all. .
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Which is another example of DB characters going berserk still very much having Ki control. I've seen people argue that because Broly didn't destroy the Earth when going Super Saiyan, that means it's somehow an anti-feat because he shouldn't be using Ki control still. This movie proves that argument wrong even further.
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Exactly. And completed Cell Max is a Cell Max under the complete control of RR. So even when completed he wouldn't suddenly have Cell's big brain, he would literally be their mindless slave. Heck without the mind control and going berserk, he might possibly be even stronger than under their control.
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He still wouldn’t have a mind if he were completed, just some rr dude would control his actions
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He's only missing his mind control not “mind“ he's basically like a robot so yes he can use his fp even when berserk
Edit: I think I replied to the wrong person whoops
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UI was a technique that Goku was able to reach because of his subconscious need to push past his limits. This form allows his body to subconsciously move on its own without him having to any unnecessary thoughts weigh him down. MUI enhanced this by completely clearing not only thoughts of battle, but all emotions, making him a stoic, fighting machine. The thing is, this mindset goes against the nature of Saiyans whose power come from the thrill of battle, and more so in line with the likes of angels who are natural nonchalant and indifferent entities, which goes in line with them having strict rules about unnecessary involvement in mortal affairs. Whis explained in the beginning of the arc to Goku that as of right now, he is simply copying the angels and therefore hinders his usage and growth with the form, so he must find his own variation of ultra instinct. With the fight between gas and Bardock, we were able to see that Bardock won not because of him "clearing his mind" or anything, but because he took advantage of his natural instinct as a Saiyan which is to find thrill in the battle of a strong obstacle in order to grow, which was ultimately what allowed him to find the strength to defeat gas. Goku is now realizing that by adopting the mindset of entities that are completely opposite of his own nature hes essentially hindering or nerfing himself and he's suppressing his true desires for the sake of power which ironically is what is holding him back. This is quite genius as it gives the technique "ultra instinct" a whole new meaning, as it's not simply battle instinct, but a technique that is fueled by the true instinct and nature of the user, basically using their natural tendency and desires to boost the user to the peak of their battle potential, hence the name "ultra instinct".
- YouTube Comment
- YouTube Comment
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With Gohan it's arguable given how casually he stomped Cell Max
Piccolo feels bit of a stretched
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R/Fuckyouinparticular
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stop thinking in VSBW terminology
My boi Shenron likes Big Green enough plus Dende upgraded shenron
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Haven't you seen Granolah arc? He went from 5-C to 3-A (Low 2-C, maybe even 2-C with much hope in Anime) because Dragons are OP
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i mean sadly piccolo only wish to unlock his potential. he should wish to be the strongest in the universe
the real question is why would he need to wish to unlock his potential when divine water can do it too cmiiw?
Coolboy6
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Because of actual statements of powerscaling?
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i think ur not getting my point here
how did Shenron manage to amp piccolo this much?yes there are statements that prove that piccolo is that strong
but Shenron can not grant a wish that its beyond his power, but surprise surprise he gave piccolo a transformation that made him be as strong as a ssjb goku
is shenron low-2C now?
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