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Doubtful but we’ll see.
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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100
- Thread starter Warren_Valion
- Start date
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I personally think people really exaggerate just how much it's been "confirmed" that Jiren is stronger than Beerus, but it's probably just me.
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It's you, whis quite literally said that Jiren > belmod > beerus and then confirmed it later in the TOP.
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When was Belmod confirmed to be stronger than Beerus?
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Beerus: Proceeds to say “Don’t go saying that. I only lost once at an arm wrestling match!”
Do you think it’s wise to use the past version of a character to determine their current strength in a show where everyone shoots up their power levels by breathing?
Do you think it’s wise to use the past version of a character to determine their current strength in a show where everyone shoots up their power levels by breathing?
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well without assuming anything if whis thinks that Beerus is weaker, then it's most likely true, Beerus just seemed to try to justify his loss.
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Keyword: was
Exactly. People forget that Beerus was weaker than Majin Buu at some point lol. I don't think this statement is remotely enough to conclusively say that Belmod is above Beerus.
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Whis didn't say was, I did, the original statement said that he IS stronger than beerus. And Beerus didn't deny it or anything, if he was stronger, he would've said that he isn't anymore. Belmod's profile even acknowledges this. Anyway how was Beerus weaker than Buu I don't recall that.
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The arm wrestling match, which is what Whis is basing his opinion on, happened some unknown time in the past. Likely decades, if not thousands of years, in the past given Beerus' sleeping schedule.
It's also a bit dubious if Whis is even talking about Belmod here. In the manga, the arm wrestling match was against Quitela (who seems to be Beerus' rival). Seeing as how Whis doesn't actually know everything about the other universes, and that the whole "Mortal above a GoD" thing was a rumor until it was confirmed to be Jiren, I think it's entirely possible that Whis actually got the GoD in question wrong.
That is unless it was confirmed in the anime that Beerus had that arm wrestling match against Belmod.
It's also a bit dubious if Whis is even talking about Belmod here. In the manga, the arm wrestling match was against Quitela (who seems to be Beerus' rival). Seeing as how Whis doesn't actually know everything about the other universes, and that the whole "Mortal above a GoD" thing was a rumor until it was confirmed to be Jiren, I think it's entirely possible that Whis actually got the GoD in question wrong.
That is unless it was confirmed in the anime that Beerus had that arm wrestling match against Belmod.
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The thing is that Beerus didn't deny it or say that was a long time ago, I think the point of that scene was to 1 show how strong Jiren is and 2 to show that Belmod is > Beerus, like why would they bring it up if it was false, and say if it was false, then they would clarify it but no.
The other point is... see the manga and anime are different, so the manga here is irrelevant, the thing is whis was unsure about if there was actually a mortal stronger than a GoD, but he knew that the rumor is from U11, saying that whis got mixed up is far too big an assumption because whis isn't the type of dude to make a mistake like that, and regardless, whis did confirm the rumor to be true.
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Yes he did. He said verbatim "Don't go saying that."
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Well to me, he didn't mean to say that Whis' statement is untrue, I see it's more likely to mean that Beerus didn't want whis to tell everyone thathe was weaker, then he tried to justify it by saying that it was only an arm wrestling match and that it happened once.
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Yet he only lost a single arm wrestling match. Tell me, if I constantly beat someone in an arm wrestling match and and only lose once to them, under unknown circumstances, does that make the other person stronger than me?
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Well no, but if that was in Beerus' case, then whis wouldn't say that he's weaker than Belmod.
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He I'd say Whis is teasing Beerus btw. He doesn’t know what universe it is. "There is a universe where lives a mortal even a god of destruction can't defeat." That's the exact quote of the rumor. That's all the info Whis has to make his claim. So how would he know it's U11?
Not enough weight to this claim when there's so much going against it. It can be easily written off as a joke. Remember when Whis said Goku and Vegeta can beat Beerus if they work together? Statements like that get retconned quite frequently. I don’t see Beerus being left in the dust until he has his rematch with Goku.
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THANK YOU! All the people who genuinely think that Beerus has been fodder for two arcs now, when his rematch with Goku and Vegeta is all but guaranteed in the future are just deluding themselves. It's a meta reason, for sure, but it doesn't make it any less true.
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Since he mentioned that Belmod beat Beerus, that means he knows the rumor is from U11. That's a possibility that whis is just trolling, but the thing is that Beerus acknowledges that what whis is saying did happen but he only tried to justify it, since he didn't directly deny what whis said.
There isn't a lot that denies this, at most it's just assumptions like "oh maybe beerus got stronger", then Beerus would just say that he is now stronger but he didn't he just tries to make it seem like a trivial loss.
Nobody thinks Beerus is fodder, it's just that current anime scaling has beerus be significantly weaker than the god tiers like Jiren UI Goku Broly Gogeta etc.
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Whis never mentions the name of the GoD. The only time we get a name drop if in the Manga, who happened to be Quitela.
Exept the major hole in Whis' statement. Earlier you said that's how it could’ve been intended, but death of the author exist. What's stated or shown in the show > whatever the author intended to do.
I'm just saying, don’t be surprised if Beerus is still on top when the anime returns.
ZetaMarishi
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Oh, he'll be on the top of the totem pole when the anime comes back. I'd be shocked if it wasn't the case. I just, personally, think he trains in secret because he wants to keep his image of superiority.
Headcanon? Sure, but shrug.
Headcanon? Sure, but shrug.
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Whis knows the GoD who beerus arm wrestled because he knows of that event happening, so if he knows the GoD then he knows the universe.
I see, but most of these refutations are just big assumptions.
That's what I'm scared about, because statements like this get contradicted, I hope they at least make him train.
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Yes but did Whis say what GoD it was? No. Does the rumor say what universe or GoD it was? No. Whis only found out after Jiren revealed his strength.
Only one is an assumption and said assumption isn’t a big one. It doesn’t take a genius to think "that character is stronger than their past self". Especially when every other time Beerus never lost an arm wrestle. So saying Belmod is stronger than Beerus due to a single victory under is almost laughable. To claim such a thing would make the statement inconsistent and invalidate itself.
Whis is quite obvious teasing Beerus if he's basing his strength over one L.
You know what that reminds me of? I beat my friend in Xenoverse 2 11-1. When I lost my other friend's were saying I was worse than him. People use statements like that all the time. It's called hyperbole.
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But whis already knew it was belmod because he saw the arm wrestling happen. What whis found out was Jiren's strength not from where Jiren was.
If say that Beerus got stronger than belmod then he'd mention it, if Beerus beat Belmod multiple times when belmod won only once, he'd mention it, maybe Beerus got much stronger, then he'd say it wouldn't be the same now but Beerus didn't say any of that, if he wanted to refute that and any of the above was true then he'd mention it and prove whis wrong but he doesn't he just tries to make the loss trivial.
That could be true, but whis' statement could still be right and still troll beerus, it doesn't really prove anything.
Yeah like I said, you're assuming Beerus won a lot here, if he did then he'd say so but he doesn't, he doesn't even make an attempt at denying it, his behavior makes it seem like he knows what whis said is the truth. Just going off narrative, whis' statement is supposed to be exposition, so they were trying to tell the viewers that Beerus is weaker than a GoD that is weaker than a regular bloke but I won't use this argument. Also you lost once? Trash. 1v1 me noob I'll pound you.
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I'm not saying he didn’t see it. I'm saying nothing states it was Belmod who was arm wrestling Beerus.
Beerus said he only lost once. That's enough evidence.
But the point is Beerus said he only lost once, which means he's likely the best at arm wrestling. If you win a lot, then you take one L, of course people are gonna make a big deal out of it.
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It doesn't need to, ok see, whis sees beerus and X arm wrestle, then he learns of the rumor and that it's from X's universe, he makes the statement, then he confirms it in the TOP, if the X in this case was not Belmod, then whis wouldn't confirm the rumor because it's not true, since Jiren is not from X's universe , but if it IS belmod then he can confirm it and it would be true.
Well maybe he fought him only once. Maybe they drew a lot but then Belmod surpassed him. Just because he lost once doesn't mean that he won a lot of times. Whis said that since Belmod won he is stronger than beerus, but beerus doesn't seem to think that's straight up false, he just seems to downplay the loss. Whis wouldn't intimidate the fighters of the tournament by saying that a dude who's actually weaker than beerus is weaker than your average bloke. It makes more sense if he was actually stronger.
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How would he know what universe the rumor is from if A) he himself said he doesn’t know much about the other universes, and B) the rumor doesn’t say which universe?
Most of the claims here are baseless, full of maybes and ifs. Beerus denied it. There's evidence against it. Not to mention it's super ambiguous. The weight of this statement is super slim.
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He doesn't know much but that doesn't mean he doesn't know anything. The reason why whis knows which universe is because the rumor MUST say which universe, or else whis wouldn't know which GoD belongs to said universe. Basically because whis knows which GoD belonds to the universe, it means that the rumor must've stated which universe this warrior comes from.
Look if whis staright up says that belmod is stronger then it's not baseless, it's you who's really coming up with all of the assumptions which aren't actually stated, if what whis said wasn't true then it wouldn't have been stated, and beerus would've denied it properly not the way he did, because the way he did came off more as him making his loss look trivial, more than it was refuting that haplening entirely.
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Unless you can find a statement of the rumor including the universe, your point is mute.
He doesn’t. He just says "that God of destruction". Whis himself didn’t even believe the rumor until he saw Jiren.
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I don't need to. Whis confirmed the rumor, that would be impossible if the GoD wasn't belmod, and it would be impossible for whis to know the GoD if the rumor doesn't mention the universe. That is literally all the proof I need to provide, you don't get to decide if the point is mute.
He must've known it was belmod because of the reason above. Whis only confirmed the rumor but I digress, the rumor was about if Jiren is stronger than belmod. But that doesn't mean that whis didn't believe belmod > beerus, because that's not actually part of the rumor.
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Whis confirmed there was a stronger mortal. Not that the mortal was from U11.
And again, Whis is only basing it off of one arm wrestling match, not even a fight. Beerus immediately saying “Don’t go saying that” doesn’t work in your favor. Earlier you said: “since Belmod won he is stronger than beerus”. Interesting, if Beerus only arm wrestled him once, then why would Beerus say “Don’t go saying that” or “I only lost once at arm wrestling”? That would mean they’ve had more matches and those other ones Beerus was the victor. Beerus wouldn’t say that if they only clashed one time, or else Beerus would agree with Whis that he’s weaker.
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If that GoD wasn't belmod then whis' confirmation wouldn't make sense, because Jiren would not be from the universe where the GoD who isn't belmod is from.
I interpret don't go saying that not as beerus saying that what whis said is untrue, but more as him telling whis to not tell the others that he lost and he would say that knowing whis is also saying this also to troll.
Because beerus would be trying to downplay his loss by saying "oh it's only an arm wrestling match, I didn't get horribly clapped" that's how I interpret it.
Just because beerus said that he lost once, doesn't mean he fought belmod multiple times, I gave you other examples of what could've also happened other than this. Beerus didn't agree necessarily with whis but he didn't disagree either, he just made the loss look trivial like oh it's only a arm wrestling match.
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I actually think the opposite. I think that Toriyama has not yet wanted Goku to surpass Beerus and that's why there are all kinds of scaling contradictions between the manga and anime about it, because I feel they haven't got a clear word for him. And I think Toei could obviously do that stunt about "he goku is probably higher than beerus now" in order to create hype for the show. But I guess we'll see when the anime rolls out.
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At this point, it'll be millennias till DB comes back in anime form. Though if all this time spent not airing any new canon material means the anime will have a higher quality or budget then I'll wait till the heat death of the universe
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In the Broly movie, Whis implied that Goku is like extremely close to surpassing Beerus in general. He's only stronger via Ultra Instinct mode, but that's something Goku can only access when he's in immense mortal danger. Also, the Manga version did give Vegeta a new hax ability that would imply he surpassed Goku. But Vegeta is still kind of pissed off as he only wants to be better than Goku in terms of raw power and/or martial arts and he's like self aware that he hates hax. I haven't read the manga, but the Google phone app has been giving me a lot of featured articles related to things I search often.
Vietthai96
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I think they will goes with the movie form like they did with Sailor Moon Crystal Eternal
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This is correct, thats why I said I hope they make him train so it's consistent with manga scaling and still makes sense, it's far better than "ACKTCHUALLY beerus was just holsing his power back, and he isn't at all qeaker than belmod or jiren or broly"
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Hello guys, question. Why does infinite zamasu have limitless stamina?
Vietthai96
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Higher Dimensional Existence, have no biological body anymore, and more
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Can you go into detail?
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He is a formless being. No stamina required
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