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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

BlastX said:
If we're gonna split them into Early-Mid-End there's no point if it doesn't match Tenkaichi 3.
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Tenkaichi was only balancing the main Sagas compared to twenty thanks to films one, two I’m suggesting it to limit the clutter on the profiles, THREE this DOES split them in the Tenkaichi Method, focusing on the Saiyan-Frieza Sagas, Android-Cell Sagas, and the Buu Saga respectively. Were merely adjusting to account for the additional information created by the Toei Continuity.
 
RedReaper616 said:
Tenkaichi was only balancing the main Sagas compared to twenty thanks to films one, two I’m suggesting it to limit the clutter on the profiles, THREE this DOES split them in the Tenkaichi Method, focusing on the Saiyan-Frieza Sagas, Android-Cell Sagas, and the Buu Saga respectively. Were merely adjusting to account for the additional information created by the Toei Continuity.
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But Tenkaichi 3 does take into account all the sagas, it's basically Toeiverse the game (hell SSJ3 Goku's Ultimate is the Dragon Fist)

And to be more accurate, Early is Saiyan saga only (up to Lord Slug), Mid is Freezer up to early Cell Saga (Basically Mid ends once he enter the time chamber, which is a decent cut off point) while End is after he gets out of the Time Chamber onwards.
 
BlastX said:
But Tenkaichi 3 does take into account all the sagas, it's basically Toeiverse the game (hell SSJ3 Goku's Ultimate is the Dragon Fist)
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Whilst it does take into account the Sagas, you’re attempting to equate individual moves (often very minor) and character placement use compared to indexing every single thing about them in one gigantic list, which Tenkaichi 3 doesn’t do. It’s not only not the same, it’s substantially easier if we try NOT to concentrate a large quantity of arcs onto a specific one and create additional bloat.
BlastX said:
And to be more accurate, Early is Saiyan saga only (up to Lord Slug), Mid is Freezer up to early Cell Saga (Basically Mid ends once he enter the time chamber, which is a decent cut off point) while End is after he gets out of the Time Chamber onwards.
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Considering Early also can have moves like the KK Times 20 and Large Spirit Bomb, no. It’s the Namek-Frieza Saga too. Just him without SSJ.
 
RedReaper616 said:
Whilst it does take into account the Sagas, you’re attempting to equate individual moves (often very minor) and character placement use compared to indexing every single thing about them in one gigantic list, which Tenkaichi 3 doesn’t do. It’s not only not the same, it’s substantially easier if we try NOT to concentrate a large quantity of arcs onto a specific one and create additional bloat.

Considering Early also can have moves like the KK Times 20 and Large Spirit Bomb, no. It’s the Namek-Frieza Saga too. Just him without SSJ.
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No, In was talking about Tenkaichi 3, Early Goku only has the Kaioken Attack he used against Vegeta and the Spirit Bomb he used against Wheelo, Turles and Slug (as in the one he tried to use against Vegeta but this time he could land it first time).

Goku Mid is the one with the Kaioken Times x20 Kamehameha and the Large Spirit Bomb.
 
BlastX said:
No, In was talking about Tenkaichi 3, Early Goku only has the Kaioken Attack he used against Vegeta and the Spirit Bomb he used against Wheelo, Turles and Slug (as in the one he tried to use against Vegeta but this time he could land it first time).

Goku Mid is the one with the Kaioken Times x20 Kamehameha and the Large Spirit Bomb.
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Ah. Raging Blast is the one with that, then. This doesn’t change how you’re creating artificial bloat we don’t need, though. It’s better to divide more evenly than to try and force an iteration to hold extra unnecessary arcs and create a hassle for profile formatting. And, given how “Early” Goku has been remodeled timeline/moveset wise in later DBZ Games (RB, SZ, FighterZ), I don’t see why we’d adhere to BT3. The whole point is convenience and ease of formatting, not to mimic the game itself.
 
Ranging Blast doesn't have an Early Goku, he doesn't have multiple Goku's at all so IDK why you brought him up.

I mean from what I seen Sparking Zero still keeps the same separation as shown by their normal unedited movesets look like (Early Goku is still Saiyan Saga while Mid Goku is Freeza-Early Cell saga, though he doesn't do anything noteworthy outside the movies in that latter time period so his moveset is just Freeza saga).

It's late so I'm going to sleep soon but maybe personally I don't see the bloat, Early cvoers a good chunk with the Saiyan Saga stuff and Mid covers...well I can't recall of the top of my head RN but it shouldn't be that many, while End probably covers the bulk, dunno maybe it doesn't feel like bloat to me, but then again I'm sleepy.

And I feel if you're trying to stick to Tenkaichi then it would be ideal to actually commit to it, kinda like how Sparking Zero basically has a lot of character moveset being a BT3 exact copy but in HD.
 
To put into perspective how you’re trying to allocate the Arcs:

Early: The Dead Zone, Saiyan, World’s Strongest, Tree of Might, and Lord Slug Sagas. (5)

Mid: Namek/Frieza, Garlic Jr., Cooler’s Revenge, Android, Return of Cooler. and Super Android 13 Sagas. (6-7)

End: Broly the Legendary Super Saiyan, Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans, Cell, Bojack Unbound, Second Coming, Bio-Broly, Fusion Reborn, Buu, and Wrath of Dragon Sagas. (10.)

We’re trying to divide twenty arcs worth of material. Trying to match it exactly puts us in a bad spot. It’s much more efficient to divide the time between the end of each major canon Arc, (End of Frieza Saga, End of Cell Saga, Buu Saga) to fit them in.

Also, we don’t benefit at all from committing to it. The suggestion is simply dividing it into 3, not arbitrarily following the conventions of a game to the letter. Especially not when it causes more clutter, not less, which is the whole point of dividing the profile.
 
Ednaxel2 said:
Can someone please help me in applying the Dragon Ball Ki Manipulation page to the Toei profiles?
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What other assistance do you need?

Also, since Baby doubled in strength by being brought to full power via Blutz Waves, and Goku exceeded him via doing the same with Saiya Power, then the level of power/multipliers we see before those moments is literally SSJ4 Goku and Golden Oozaru Baby being at 50%. Neat.
 
Ngl Z manga stuck at just 4B doesn't track with Kid Buu being an immediate threat to the universe. MHS flight speed ain't gonna cut
 
I'm pretty sure it's just at least 4x stronger, since all we can really say for sure is SSJ2 Goku is "stronger than when Gohan fought Cell" and SSJ3 is 4x SSJ2.

EDIT: Given Dabura was supposed to be easy and "on par with Cell" (where they mean Perfect or Super Perfect is unknown) to show how far Gohan had fallen behind, I dunno how valid you can make of an estimate on that statement.
 
Oh so like
I'm trying to get the exact scaling of GT Goku in order

So I'm doing a Sandbox to figure it out and hopefully make a Blog for how much higher GT Scales off of Z.
 
It occurs to me that Baby somehow obtained a 400 plus times increase in power by possessing Vegeta, and that's utterly ridiculous.

SSJ Baby Gohan ~ SSJ Vegeta

Base Goku >>> SSJ Baby Gohan

SSJ Baby Vegeta > SSJ3 Goku

Wild.
 
RedReaper616 said:
I'm pretty sure it's just at least 4x stronger, since all we can really say for sure is SSJ2 Goku is "stronger than when Gohan fought Cell" and SSJ3 is 4x SSJ2.

EDIT: Given Dabura was supposed to be easy and "on par with Cell" (where they mean Perfect or Super Perfect is unknown) to show how far Gohan had fallen behind, I dunno how valid you can make of an estimate on that statement.
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We sorta treat SSJ2 Buu Saga Gohan as >SSJ1 Goku and Vegeta, so it can't be below x8.
 
RedReaper616 said:
It occurs to me that Baby somehow obtained a 400 plus times increase in power by possessing Vegeta, and that's utterly ridiculous.

SSJ Baby Gohan ~ SSJ Vegeta

Base Goku >>> SSJ Baby Gohan

SSJ Baby Vegeta > SSJ3 Goku

Wild.
Click to expand...
Wasn't baby himself in Gohan when he faced Vegeta and later on it was just one of his spores on Gohan when he faced Goku?

The hosts baby himself possesses seem to get a boost
 
Why don't Saiyans or Namekians have a physiology page? They both seem to have enough abilities to warrant one.
 
ArcaneAbyss said:
Wasn't baby himself in Gohan when he faced Vegeta and later on it was just one of his spores on Gohan when he faced Goku?

The hosts baby himself possesses seem to get a boost
Click to expand...
Baby Goten was fast enough to keep up with SSJ Baby Gohan to create the inescapable sphere they trapped Vegeta in, so the amp seems to exist regardless.
 
Huesito88 said:
What's the current calculated number you have for GT Goku?
Click to expand...
This is my current Sandbox.

Currently trying to figure out the power ups of the S17 and Shadow Dragons Sagas.

The only one I have in my head for sure is an at least 8x jump, since SSJ Goku did better than Majuub against Super 17, who was able to fight Baby better than the previous SSJ3 Goku was.
 
I don't really agree with Goku SSJ performing better because Super 17 was pretty much holding back against him and then once he got bored he flat out told him he was just the same as everyone else.

But I don't care about arguing much about it.
 
I mean Super 17 was still holding back and easily tanked Vegeta's Final Shine Attack, Gohan's full-strength KHH, Majuub's physical blows, etc. Given he didn't outwardly raise his power in any way, I don't see how that's not a pretty clear sign of superiority. (It's also stated by the Narrator that this battle is "The Mightiest in This World and the Next," which implies the fighters are fighting at their own level, but also probably is referencing how this battle contextually is related to Hell and Earth), but valid.

I think the only outwardly notable and quantifiable power boost outside of that is the ten times increase Super Full Power provided Goku against Syn-Omega Shenron, since Goku went from below Syn to "close" to Omega, who was ten times above Syn. Whilst the Shadow Dragons progressively get stronger, there's no real way to quantify that outside of their boasts, which are...boasts, and often played for jokes. They also straight up don't really use numbers anyway.

Meaning most of the insane power jumps are within the Black Star and Baby Sagas, with various character powers being established through their relativity to Goku or the antag at a given moment.
 
Yeah, I think getting SSJ4 is the last power increase Goku in the series, even after getting his Tail back Baby said he didn't increase his power even a little bit and most relevant villains get the "He's equal to SSJ4 Goku" in the guides which implies he's treated the same across the series.

Which is kinda fitting since SSJ4 is a potential unlock, a limit breaker and a multiplier, I don't think Goku can get much stronger without outside help once he gets it, which means he hit his peak or at least a plateau.
 
Is there a way to access the old Kanzentai Daizenshuu translations? With the stuff going on with the Archive, they're not working (for me) and I need a method to access the information on those sites.
 
RedReaper616 said:
Is there a way to access the old Kanzentai Daizenshuu translations? With the stuff going on with the Archive, they're not working (for me) and I need a method to access the information on those sites.
Click to expand...
Everyone also has this issue, the only work around I could think of is using Herm's translations, but apart from that yeah I can't think of anything else
 
Damn.

I guess I'll have to manage.

Anyway, this is my completed numbers game when it comes to how much they're upscaling from their Toei Z-Selves. Anything seem off? I'll add more scans later for the initial few paragraphs, but I wanted to get everything down first.
 
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