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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

RedReaper616 said:
To be frank, SSJ4 doesn't really have a set multiplier either. It seems to just continually grant more strength the more Ki you have or more control you have. We're explicitly told that the SSJ4 you see most of the time is actually nerfed, because Goku isn't at Full Power, which results in him not performing as well as he should. This is very clearly established with his fight with Baby--The massive jumps in power I listed are the amps it gave a Goku on death's door. Once he gained his full power, he was able to just wallop Baby, and he can continually absorb Ki to grow in strength further, like he did to the Revenge Death Ball. This is really consistent, because when Goku fought Nuova he didn't even really have the Ki to transform at all, and was just forcing his body to do so, and he was fighting comparably, whereas when Goku fought Omega, after getting Ki given to him for his "Super Full Power" he utterly dwarfed everyone else and was directly stated to be so close to Omega the difference in their powers was impossible to tell.

So you could really say that SSJ4 is like, the perfect form? It has basically no drain, can create massive stores of power out of nothing, can sap power to fight above your weight class (making it have a lite version of the unbounded multiplier UE and UI have) and operates as a potential unlock that puts you in your prime body, meaning your prior physical circumstances don't really matter. While SSJ4 within the context of it's story won't naturally give you a SSBKK, SSBE, or UI/UE buff, you can work your way there pretty cleanly via just Super 17'ing your way up the ladder. The difference is that SSJ4 focuses on bettering the fundamentals, like precision, senses, stamina cost, improving the prior forms, etc. whereas UI and UE come with hax.
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Correction:Goku needed Super Full Power to fight Syn Shenron cause he was getting assblasted otherwise, once he went Omega he couldn't do shit to him and he needed to use Dragon Hammer or try and Self-Destruct to beat him.
 
BlastX said:
Correction:Goku needed Super Full Power to fight Syn Shenron cause he was getting assblasted otherwise, once he went Omega he couldn't do shit to him and he needed to use Dragon Hammer or try and Self-Destruct to beat him.
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"Dragon Hammer" Bruh! 💀
 
BlastX said:
Correction:Goku needed Super Full Power to fight Syn Shenron cause he was getting assblasted otherwise, once he went Omega he couldn't do shit to him and he needed to use Dragon Hammer or try and Self-Destruct to beat him.
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No, Gohan explicitly states their powers were similar. Omega also outright wasn't able to hurt Goku due to the resistances Goku had to all of his hax, and was only mildly stronger, they were going back and forth with Goku on the backfoot, something which we see visually when Omega does his hand raise wave, which easily knocked around everyone but Goku. Goku only becomes unable to do anything after he burns basically all his Ki on the Dragon Hammer/Super Dragon Fist. Super Full Power Goku thrashed Syn Shenron, and yes it was necessary because normal SSJ4 Goku (with virtually no Ki) was being utterly dominated, but all of that I noted (in a prior comment).

EDIT: Rewatching, GT Goku is on a much bigger backfoot physically, so not "moderately" weaker, as Goku kept getting hit before he could collect his bearings and even attack. However, Goku is still relative to Omega based on Gohan's statement regardless.
 
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Huesito88 said:
So you don't buy how Buuhans feat is handled and you also disagree with infinite size cosmology?
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i have been around since the loungemoviecodec days debating GT feats I've seen all the arguments to be had but it seems to me ever since DBS got their new feats DBGT is now suddenly getting highballed to keep up with Super

No one back in the day was arguing for Multiversal GT and last i checked GT hasnt had a show since then.

Buuhan was screaming to the point where he was going to collapse the dimensions not sure how people are now arguing for multiversal Buuhan because that's something only he can do

Cosmology isn't the problem it's scaling GT to have infinite speed to a movie which(like most movies before BOG) doesn't fit in the timeline.

But i'll agree to disagree it's not that big of a deal to me.
 
GodOfThunder said:
Cosmology isn't the problem it's scaling GT to have infinite speed to a movie which(like most movies before BOG) doesn't fit in the timeline..
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The Buuhan feat being treated as 2-C is all thanks to @Ultima_Reality (whom is definitely NOT one of the GT guys that randomly wanted Multiversal DBZ all of a sudden in response to Super) making the crt and getting it accepted

Pikkon and Goku traveling Heaven is one of the main feats of infinite speed, it's not movie only
 
Huesito88 said:
The Buuhan feat being treated as 2-C is all thanks to @Ultima_Reality (whom is definitely NOT one of the GT guys that randomly wanted Multiversal DBZ all of a sudden in response to Super) making the crt and getting it accepted

Pikkon and Goku traveling Heaven is one of the main feats of infinite speed, it's not movie only
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i see but even then the point remains the same it doesn't make any sense claiming Base Goku and anyone who scales to him has infinite speed is ridiculous
 
GodOfThunder said:
i see but even then the point remains the same it doesn't make any sense claiming Base Goku and anyone who scales to him has infinite speed is ridiculous
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Well here's the thing prior to Infinite speed it was MFTL+ with a value of "4.38 Quadrillion c", thanks to Pikkon's and Goku's feat
 
Mr. Popo's filler has pretty neat stuff when it comes to the martial arts side of Dragon Ball. Also, they're just very charming. Watching Kid Goku try to solve these problems and learn the foundations of Ki we take for granted is just so riveting.
 
If someone is willing (I’m lazy and terrible at pixel calcs), they should calculate Super Shenron’s Mass and GBE. A python would possess universal level mass (over 10^53 kg) at just 100 light years long. Super Shenron appears to be well over 100 million light years long. A python would weigh over 10^71 kg when scaled proportionally. From multi galactic to universal lifting strength. The GBE (if any methods work at all) won’t reach 3A AP but would give a concrete 3B rating.
 
LuffyRuffy46307 said:
That is if he hadn't been awakened in a hurry.
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i don't exactly get ur point, we're saying the same thing here
Spinoirr said:
Hell in the Manga Beast Gohan was in a beam crash against Cell Max too
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yeah but the manga scaling is different, broly was fodder by the time of the granola arc
SlendVeny said:
It's not explicitly stated, but pretty much.
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paragus explicitly stated that ikari is just oozaru without shapeshifting
 
MountainWine said:
If someone is willing (I’m lazy and terrible at pixel calcs), they should calculate Super Shenron’s Mass and GBE. A python would possess universal level mass (over 10^53 kg) at just 100 light years long. Super Shenron appears to be well over 100 million light years long. A python would weigh over 10^71 kg when scaled proportionally. From multi galactic to universal lifting strength. The GBE (if any methods work at all) won’t reach 3A AP but would give a concrete 3B rating.
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Could you provide a scan?
 
can someone summarize the arguments for moon level 22nd tenkaichi?
i really don't see how they scale to moon level physically
 
Darkmon_cns said:
I bet we get a continuing of GT first-
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Get ready for…GT Kai!

Really, jokes aside, I’d love a modern re-animation of GT’s events. Stuff kinda sucks to watch visually after rewatching some of the best fights Z has to offer. Like I can’t look at SSJ4 Goku V Omega Shenron and take it seriously when Goku V Majin Vegeta exists.
 
Dragon Ball GT contains 3 infinite universes and all cosmology takes 2-C infinitely superior to a normal 2-C, then Cabba being sized for 2 GoD Wouldn't it be inferior to DBGT's 2-C which contains 3 infinite Universes?

Remembering that Toei cosmology has 3 infinite Universes and canon cosmology only has 2 normal Universes ( which would make 4 universes with the battle between Beerus and his brother)

Here half of Brazil hates DBGT and thinks it's just multi-galaxy
 
GodOfThunder said:
i see but even then the point remains the same it doesn't make any sense claiming Base Goku and anyone who scales to him has infinite speed is ridiculous
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I find everyone scaling to SSG power more Ridiculous the 2 bases thing made much more sense- point is super has something just as ridiculous, so why is this notable?
 
LuffyRuffy46307 said:
Dragon Ball GT contains 3 infinite universes and all cosmology takes 2-C infinitely superior to a normal 2-C, then Cabba being sized for 2 GoD Wouldn't it be inferior to DBGT's 2-C which contains 3 infinite Universes?

Remembering that Toei cosmology has 3 infinite Universes and canon cosmology only has 2 normal Universes ( which would make 4 universes with the battle between Beerus and his brother)

Here half of Brazil hates DBGT and thinks it's just multi-galaxy
Click to expand...
Infinite size in 3-D doesn't matter once we include space-times. Beerus and Champa get 4 space-times while GT just gets 3.
 
BlackeJan said:
but like DBZ and DBZ Kai are the same thing just a better didialogue
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Kai is missing quite a few scenes from DBZ since it was made to be more Manga accurate. A lot of filler and stuff. It'll be weaker as a result, but still better.

I forget if Infinite speed is in Kai or if Infinite universe is in. But I ain't that invested in this.
 
In my opinion the bigger and more noteworthy thing is that the title screens of the Macrocosm (the universe as shown within Kai) means that Super's fuckup no longer matters and we can go back to the cosmology as Toriyama intended and stop pretending that the "source material" cannot be wrong. U7 Being a giant weirdo sphere is much better than an ordinary inconsistent with all known lore regular universe.
 
ALSO, whose teleport did Goku predict within Toei? The claim is here with a broken link and the only person I can think of is S.Janemba, but I want to be sure
 
RedReaper616 said:
In my opinion the bigger and more noteworthy thing is that the title screens of the Macrocosm (the universe as shown within Kai) means that Super's fuckup no longer matters and we can go back to the cosmology as Toriyama intended and stop pretending that the "source material" cannot be wrong. U7 Being a giant weirdo sphere is much better than an ordinary inconsistent with all known lore regular universe.
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Even if the living world wasn't a sphere it's definitely in a sphere
 
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