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I think cell max should scale on Gas
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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100
- Thread starter Warren_Valion
- Start date
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That's waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too low, dude. You have to remember that SSJ3 Goku was ~ Super Saiyan Baby, and then Baby went SSJ2 and SSJ3. Golden Oozaru eclipsed that, and then Goku went SSJ4 with Golden Oozaru Baby being near him in strength (meaning the multiplier from Golden Oozaru to SSJ4 must be comparable to the multiplier gap between SSJ3 and Golden Oozaru itself.)
Like, the actual lowball would be near 10.24 million times Base.
(400 x 2 x 4 is 3200 to get to where SB2 {and thus Golden Oozaru} is from Base, then multiply 3200 on itself to get the bare minimum SSJ4 Multiplier. 3200 times 3200 is 10.24 million).
How it stacks up compared to the God Forms is iffy, though, because SSJ4 is just propelling an already 2-C fighter massively forward whereas SSG is taking a Multi-Solar System/Galaxy fighter to 2-C. If you compared actual numerical minimums, SSJ4 would be superior, but if you got the power jumps as written in the context of their stories I'd say SSG and SSJ4 would be comparable (SSJ4 was compared to the multiplier Anime Vegito gave in the guides and we also know that SSJ2 Baby exceeded him outright, so it's consistent, and Anime Vegito took Galaxy-Multi Galaxy fighters to 2-C like SSG did for Goku in BoG so within the context of their stories, they're comparable as infinite jumps of power. No, SSG being "above Vegito" doesn't matter, because that was referring to Manga Vegito, whose level of power and increase are dwarfed by Anime Vegito.)
Then SSB is a 50x jump off of that, making it the stronger form compared to ordinary SSJ4, and SFPSSJ4 is at least a ten times amp, (likely much higher because it took SSJ4 Goku who couldn't even handle Syn Shenron beyond even Omega Shenron, which is a ten times amp off Syn Shenron himself, so this is just the numerical lowball, not an accurate estimate), so based on that SSB is stronger, but wouldn't be too much so. GT Goku would likely be able to use the Super Dragon Fist to cross the remaining gap (it allowed Base Goku to damage S17, who at that point was stronger than SSJ4 Goku of that arc). SSJ4 would definitely be behind forms like SSBKK, SSBE, and Ultra Instinct/Ego though.
Spinoirr
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Remember PUI and UE are limitless unbounded states of mind/forms/techniques
Their power depends on the mindset of the user and thus have no set multiplier
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To be frank, SSJ4 doesn't really have a set multiplier either. It seems to just continually grant more strength the more Ki you have or more control you have. We're explicitly told that the SSJ4 you see most of the time is actually nerfed, because Goku isn't at Full Power, which results in him not performing as well as he should. This is very clearly established with his fight with Baby--The massive jumps in power I listed are the amps it gave a Goku on death's door. Once he gained his full power, he was able to just wallop Baby, and he can continually absorb Ki to grow in strength further, like he did to the Revenge Death Ball. This is really consistent, because when Goku fought Nuova he didn't even really have the Ki to transform at all, and was just forcing his body to do so, and he was fighting comparably, whereas when Goku fought Omega, after getting Ki given to him for his "Super Full Power" he utterly dwarfed everyone else and was directly stated to be so close to Omega the difference in their powers was impossible to tell.
So you could really say that SSJ4 is like, the perfect form? It has basically no drain, can create massive stores of power out of nothing, can sap power to fight above your weight class (making it have a lite version of the unbounded multiplier UE and UI have) and operates as a potential unlock that puts you in your prime body, meaning your prior physical circumstances don't really matter. While SSJ4 within the context of it's story won't naturally give you a SSBKK, SSBE, or UI/UE buff, you can work your way there pretty cleanly via just Super 17'ing your way up the ladder. The difference is that SSJ4 focuses on bettering the fundamentals, like precision, senses, stamina cost, improving the prior forms, etc. whereas UI and UE come with hax.
So you could really say that SSJ4 is like, the perfect form? It has basically no drain, can create massive stores of power out of nothing, can sap power to fight above your weight class (making it have a lite version of the unbounded multiplier UE and UI have) and operates as a potential unlock that puts you in your prime body, meaning your prior physical circumstances don't really matter. While SSJ4 within the context of it's story won't naturally give you a SSBKK, SSBE, or UI/UE buff, you can work your way there pretty cleanly via just Super 17'ing your way up the ladder. The difference is that SSJ4 focuses on bettering the fundamentals, like precision, senses, stamina cost, improving the prior forms, etc. whereas UI and UE come with hax.
Nullflowerblush
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Isn't Super Saiyan 4 just a compressed Super Saiyan Great Ape?
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SSJ4, despite requiring SSJ and Oozaru, is described as being a “separate species” of transformation that acts as a “awakening of a Saiyan’s potential.” It's not a multiplier or actually dependent on prior form powers, and is more in line with the ritual Gohan went through.
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Base Cabba GG or whatever the meme is rn
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what's the biggest gap from base to ultimate that we know of? considering that base gohan isn't weak
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ngl most of these aren't even that impressive
toppo was = blue vegeta, in god form he's =< blue evolution, barely a 20x amp
frieza is fair, angel power is just angels not holding back
i didn't count blue/rose because it's 2 forms combined
LSS is fair maybeeee? it's roughly an SSG gap??
after training with the z sword, base gohan was >= base goku iirc
but yeah applying the gotenks goofy scaling it gets bumped up really alot
SS2 goku is 100x his base
SS3 gotenks is 20,000x that
gohan is > gotenks
2 million times is huge, but it's kinda consistent, because in super it bumped gohan to SSB level
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oh i was talking about canon broly's green haired form
he went from being somewhat SS1 gogeta level to not too far behind SSB
but broly got insane reactive evolution so idk
Demon_Lord18
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Has Luffy already done the CRT to level up Majin Buu?
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is there proof of that? nothing in-verse ever indicates it being an infinite amp
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No, it will happen as soon as the first episode of Dragon Ball Daima comes out, i want to do something very different with a lot of evidence.
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Ehh, isn't Ikari Broly only about x10 stronger than his base form?
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base broly is 1/10th of his ikari state
u gotta factor in how broly grows tens of times in mere moments
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u mean stronger?
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Demon_Lord18
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yeah that's what i said
the cell max we see is < broly
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Spinoirr
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Hell in the Manga Beast Gohan was in a beam crash against Cell Max too
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I saw, Cell Max needed third parties to be defeated, if it was just Gohan alone there would be no way for him to finish it, Cell Max is a monster.
At least i see him being superior to Jiren
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It's not explicitly stated, but pretty much.
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GT isn't low multiversal or infinite speed
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