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Dragon Ball Super - Broly and Gogeta Justification Addition

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Toby020 said:
why do you keep repeating the same thing? Since the reason for being low 2-C has already been explained, layman
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Could you repeat the reason, then? Or, at the very least, quote the message?

Time has not been mentioned once. Is there any reason we should be considering time in the equation?
 
Characters who are capable of significantly affecting, creating and/or destroying an area of space that is qualitatively larger than an infinitely-sized 3-dimensional space. Common fictional examples of spaces representing such sizes are space-time continuums (the entire past, present and future of 3-dimensional space) of a universal scale.
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There isn't any statement about the dimensions being universal in size or that time in its entirety has been destroyed, in fact time is never mentioned in the feat
A) Equivalent to a large extra dimensional space. That is, a higher-dimensional "bulk" space which embeds lower-dimensional ones (Such as our universe) as subsets of itself, whose dimensions are not microscopic / compactified.
B) Portrayed as completely transcending lower-dimensional objects and spaces in the setting of a given work of fiction.
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There isn't any statement about the dimensions being higher-dimensional spaces that completely transcend the universe
 
At best, without any explicit mentioning of time being affected, "[breaking] the boundaries of the universe" is 3-A. Otherwise, the cast would have reached Low 2-C one film and a hundred nineteen episodes ago.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
At best, without any explicit mentioning of time being affected, "[breaking] the boundaries of the universe" is 3-A. Otherwise, the cast would have reached Low 2-C one film and a hundred nineteen episodes ago.
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Bills and Goku already almost destroyed more than one 4D universe with their fight, so why each of those "dimensions" would be smaller than a universe?!
 
Nullflowerblush said:
At best, without any explicit mentioning of time being affected, "[breaking] the boundaries of the universe" is 3-A. Otherwise, the cast would have reached Low 2-C one film and a hundred nineteen episodes ago.
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Come on, before you were paying Nelson about the novel being canonical, now I came to shut you up and tell you that you're wrong about all your arguments, negotiator has no time!

Fact 1, it is said in the novel that the entire universe could not withstand such a large amount of energy as Brolly and Gogeta, they threw them in a dimension that could withstand their attacks (in fact this dimension must be larger than universal size to tank all of their attacks)

Fact 2, it is described that they destroyed this entire dimension and reality, it is impossible for a destruction of reality not to affect space-time

Fact 3, I hate people like you who keep making excuses to belittle such a feat, would you like to stop being a hater?

Fact 4, it is said that every movie is on a universal scale, so such a dimension is Universal or greater than that to support such a huge energy! Link to all the things I mentioned below and if I came with a bargain for my side, it's better not to comment on my post


Ahead of the release of "Dragon Ball Super: SUPER HERO", the new movie in the "Dragon Ball" series, which is based on legendary manga artist Akira Toriyama's mega-hit manga series, on April 22 as a Golden Week of movie, we will explain some highlights of the movie here. The "Super" series is a manga anime series that began in 2015 and covers the 10-year gap between Majin Buu's defeat and the final chapter of the original story. The last film in the series, "Dragon Ball Super: Broly", released in 2018, was a huge success, grossing over a billion yen at the box office thanks to the incredible visuals of the battles between the Saiyans. As in the last film, also in "SUPER HERO", Akira Toriyama, the author of the original work, will be responsible for the script and character design. According to Akio lyoku, head of the Dragon Ball Room of Shueisha's Rights Division, the story outline for this film was completed during production of Broly. "As Akira Toriyama took on a new challenge with 'Broly, he was quite excited about the final product and said, 'Let's get to work on the next one! In 2013, he wrote the story and script for the first movie in 17 years, "Dragon Ball Z: Battle of Gods", and it seemed to me that his desire to move these characters to the next level was very high. But he didn't want to force it. 'Broly' was the story of a final battle, so he wanted to do something a little different. , and that's how this work began." (Mr. Tyoku)

The main points were "introduce characters from the past and return to the roots, the "Earth is in danger" stage, but as time went on, Goku and Vegeta grew stronger, and the scale of the battles increased, and the last movie took in the form of a Universal Scale Battle. "We wanted to write characters other than Goku and Vegeta. This time around, Gohan and Piccolo play a very active role, and as we think through the story, we feel it's important to consider what the fans want. Of course, Gohan and Piccolo are popular characters, so we wanted them to play an active role in the movie.

Battle of the Gods, Resurrection of Frieza and Dbs Broly are universal in scale.

Dbs Broly, dimensions are universal.





Just now this Interview with Iyoku, director of DBS: Super Hero, about the movie came out

Main points

01 - Gohan and Gamma 1's battle wasn't originally in the rain, but director Tetsuro Kodama thought the rain would be cool and Toriyama approved.

02 - Iyoku says that Toriyama started on the Super Hero script before the release of DBS: Broly. It's a change of pace from universal scale battles like the Broly movie and whatnot, with the story focusing on a threat to Earth and Gohan + Piccolo rather than Goku + Vegeta.

03 - The film also shows the “army” side of the RR, as it has been a while since the main enemy was a complete organization. They're a more comedic, scheming type of villain rather than someone you just beat up. Also, Toriyama had to design his new base and vehicles.

04 - In fact, Magenta and Carmine's villainous machinations will be key to the first half of the movie. As mere ordinary humans, Magenta and Hedo may not have fighting skills, but a lot of attention was paid to their speech style and gestures being adequate.

05 - While much of the film will be devoted to this "human drama", the CGI visuals will also be used for battle scenes that depict the inhuman speed and fighting style of Gamma 1 and 2, and the true strength of scholar Gohan. Director Kodama specializes in CG animation.



Herms translated:
 
Okay, is this dimension "beyond the universe" or does the space-time continuum extend into this dimension as well?

Also, "this dimension must be larger than universal size to tank all of their attacks"? Is Earth universal in size, too?
 
Also, yes, layman. The Wiki currently views Universe 7 as a cluster of different spatial dimensions, barring the Room of Spirit and Time — an anomaly, bonded together under a singular space-time continuum.

If the space-time continuum were different between the two dimensions, the dimension of strange, swirling lights and the Living Universe, were different, then Gogeta and Broly would have went in at one point in time and emerged at either the same point in time or a radically progressed one; however, time had flowed as though the two remained on Earth the entire time, proving that the two temporal axes were identical, as is the case with the other dimensions in Universe 7.

Also, also, again, for a feat to be considered Low 2-C, there needs to be explicit confirmation that space and time were both affected on an explicitly universal scale. Destroying the entire universe is not even enough for Low 2-C with explicit mention of time.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
Also, yes, layman. The Wiki currently views Universe 7 as a cluster of different spatial dimensions, barring the Room of Spirit and Time — an anomaly, bonded together under a singular space-time continuum.

If the space-time continuum were different between the two dimensions, the dimension of strange, swirling lights and the Living Universe, were different, then Gogeta and Broly would have went in at one point in time and emerged at either the same point in time or a radically progressed one; however, time had flowed as though the two remained on Earth the entire time, proving that the two temporal axes were identical, as is the case with the other dimensions in Universe 7.

Also, also, again, for a feat to be considered Low 2-C, there needs to be explicit confirmation that space and time were both affected on an explicitly universal scale. Destroying the entire universe is not even enough for Low 2-C with explicit mention of time.
Click to expand...
Let's use your mother as a basis, if your mother destroys the universe is necessarily to have quote to affect universe?
 
You can keep flapping your gums ad infinitum, trying to come up with analogies and throwing word vomit at me pertaining to movies that aren't relevant to the discussion rotation, but until you can scrape together any proof of time being significantly affected, nothing changes.
 
Why is the RoSaT exclusively a different space-time? That was never described in the manga or anime (or at least, nothing different from how other dimensions are described).
 
SSJGeminiJJ said:
Why is the RoSaT exclusively a different space-time? That was never described in the manga or anime (or at least, nothing different from how other dimensions are described).
Click to expand...
Firstly and most importantly, time flows differently in the Room of Spirit and Time, meaning the temporal axis is different apparently, this axis just conveniently happens to intersect perfectly with the temporal axis of the Living Universe. Secondly, characters such as Goku, who can sense individuals in the Other World like King Kai, cannot sense people that have entered the Room of Spirit and Time, proving a different level of dimensionality.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
Firstly and most importantly, time flows differently in the Room of Spirit and Time, meaning the temporal axis is different apparently, this axis just conveniently happens to intersect perfectly with the temporal axis of the Living Universe. Secondly, characters such as Goku, who can sense individuals in the Other World like King Kai, cannot sense people that have entered the Room of Spirit and Time, proving a different level of dimensionality.
Click to expand...
Having a different rate time flows isn't a conclusive factor to be a different space-time (I'm pretty sure even in the real world time dilation can be observed in different places due to some weird shit about gravity), at least in Dragon Ball.
a39a5f1caae735b035f0c00e97645a11.png

This is even explained clearly in the series how different timelines have the same flow of time.
 
  1. Manga.
  2. Yes, the parallel timelines flow in the same direction. Like a parallel line.
  3. Bulma explicitly states that the future world is connected to the present world through the Time Machine.
 
This can clearly be observed in the Super anime and in the Androids/Cell Saga too, the manga just puts a good explanation for it.

Yes, and the same goes for the 12 universes, and flow of time isn't correlated to being a different timeline or not, so the RoSaT having some weird time dilation is not any special evidence to consider it a different space-time above the other dimensions, when confirmed different space-times in Dragon Ball aren't subject to the same property.
 
I'm kind of mixed; I know the Broly movie seems to give details that implied it's a sequal to both Anime and Manga (Such as Vegeta having a SSG form which wasn't done outside the manga beforehand and Goku also being able to go SSB Kaioken which was Anime exclusive). The advertisements also suggest it being an Anime sequal. Though the manga just has one page that consists of an ad for the movie in the middle of one of its chapters; which could give the impression that despite the split canons, that arc specifically has every scene play out identically within the canon of both continuities. Although I am kind of mixed and unsure about it being canon to the manga.

It's definitely canon to Anime, but neutral about it being a canon arc in the manga continuity.
 
The only direct connection made between them is Toyotaro mentioning the movie specifically when discussing when the Moro Arc takes place.

Content | New Translations: Jump Festa 2019 Akira Toriyama & Toyotarō Comments

Kanzenshuu provides English translations of comments from Akira Toriyama & Toyotarō as shared during the franchise's Jump Festa 2019 stage presentation
www.kanzenshuu.com www.kanzenshuu.com
At last, the “Galactic Patrol Prisoner arc” has begun! It’s a story that takes place after the Broli movie.

—Toyotarō
Click to expand...
 
The manga may provide more evidence pointing towards ROSAT dimensions being outside the universe, as Freeza who trained in one was exempt from Gas wish of being the strongest in universe 7.
SSJGeminiJJ said:
Having a different rate time flows isn't a conclusive factor to be a different space-time (I'm pretty sure even in the real world time dilation can be observed in different places due to some weird shit about gravity), at least in Dragon Ball.
a39a5f1caae735b035f0c00e97645a11.png

This is even explained clearly in the series how different timelines have the same flow of time.
Click to expand...
Didn’t Freeza get excluded from Gas’ wish of being the strongest in the universe by virtue of being inside a RoSAT at the time?

that pretty much confirms that they are independent space times since time flows different and they are places excluded from universe spanning wishes.
 
Can somebody list all of the available evidence for that the light novel in question is canon to the Dragon Ball Chou manga?
 
Antvasima said:
Can somebody list all of the available evidence for that the light novel in question is canon to the Dragon Ball Chou manga?
Click to expand...
Toriyama and Kusakabe listed as the novel's authors/creators. It states that Toriyama is responsible for the original story, script, and character design, while Kusakabe is responsible for the novel's own adaptation.

Literally named after Akira toriyama in the novel, not considering it for the manga or movie is totally negotiable



There is no contradiction about the novel not being valid for the manga or movie, in the manga there is no Brolly arc and what we literally have to take is what was shown as canonical, and it was also shown events from the movie in the manga and it was all the same



It's easier for you to say that the Knights of the Zodiac EP G is not canon, than to say that the movie/novel is not valid for the manga.

The novel does nothing but elaborate the story, better explaining certain aspects and showing certain scenes from a different angle.


Well here's something else important
 
We can also scale Brolly to low 2-C for being mentioned in the novel as being above Beerus (if Brolly and Gogeta's feat of destroying a reality is not accepted, PS should be applied on top of Bills for all characters superior to Brolly to be low 2-C in the manga)




Also, these are Senzu Beans. Have two! Eat one of them when you're in trouble or feel that you're about to die. It can't take of diseases, but it'll heal all your injuries and replenish your stamina."

As Cheelay was listening, she gave Goku a distrustful look.

"What're you up to?"

"Nothing. I just want him to have a good life."

Cheelay and Lemo raise their eyebrows and exclaim in unison: "Huh?"

Goku laid his hand over Broly's shoulder.

"I was pretty confident in my own strengh, but then the stronger Broly showed up. And what's more, he's Saiyan, just like me. He's probably even stronger than Beerus. And Beerus is a God!"

Just then, over at Bulma's mansion Beerus let out a big sneeze but Goku had no way of knowing about that.

"Anyway, I can't let such an amazing guy bite the dust. It would be a waste!"
 
Interview with Toyotaro about the Dragon Ball Super Brolly movie



“I'm not a disciple of Toriyama-sensei or anything, I'm just a fan who drew for fun. There are probably people better at reproducing his art style than I am, and also people better at drawing battle scenes or jokes. Obviously I'm working hard to be the best, but I still have a long way to go, so it was an incredible honor to be able to draw this sequel (Dragon Ball Super). If I thought about it objectively I wouldn't be able to take all the pressure off, so I try not to think about it too much (laughs). Broly has been one of my favorite characters for a long time. When he first appeared in 90s movies, I think kids automatically liked him simply because he was a Super Saiyan. I think nothing is cooler than being the strongest. I've been drawing Broly since the old days, so I wanted to try drawing him again. Even a picture of him standing up is a good picture, so I think it would be incredibly attractive if he appeared in the manga. Looking closely, perhaps Broly's appeal is that he's burdened with a past. Unlike villains that pop out of nowhere, we can see the tragic circumstances that led Broly to be so strong, which makes him feel special. With this new film, Toriyama-sensei used Broly to craft a story linking everything from the beginning of the intertwined fates of the Saiyans and Frieza to the present. So I'd say it's a pretty significant film. Frieza has a very special position as the evil boss. Cell came from the future, and Majin Buu is revived from the past, so no matter how strong they are, their stories haven't been portrayed much. By comparison, Frieza is completely connected with the story of the Saiyans' destruction, so naturally he's the bad guy of modern times. In the 'Survival of the Universe' saga, I think everyone expected him to become an ally of Goku, but in this movie he's a villain after all. Frieza's appeal is that he's evil to the bone. Of course I like the original manga better, but I also like the anime, the games, everything. The generation that grew up as a fan is now giving it their all making new anime, games and manga. I feel like we're all working to build the world of Dragon Ball. I will continue to draw Dragon Ball as long as they want.”

The rest of the interview you can find on YouTube, I just put some words that he himself quoted.
 
Dragon Ball Super Broly Anime Comics é citado uma batalha superdimensional

Não sei se isso upa em algo, mas está aí para quem quiser ver

 
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