Dragon Ball Super - Broly and Gogeta Justification Addition

[Nullflowerblush]

With this logic a push for Kai being Canon to Super could be justified because SUCH & SUCH scenes that are clear references to the anime only. (Gregory/Buu Arc Flashbacks/ History of Trunks references)

This would be the case if not for explicit statements that Super was a continuation of the original manga.

See, that is the deal breaker here. There are explicit statements confirming that the Super anime is a branch off of the original manga, and there are explicit statements confirming that Broly is a branch off of the Super anime rather than the manga. The Super anime reanimating scenes from the "History of Trunks" TV special into a tiny flashback is not quite comparable to Super Hero completely disregarding the characterization of Gohan presented in the manga or the characters suddenly forgetting that Piccolo had a giant form, despite seeing him use him during the battle with Moro...

...unless-

 

[RoTt35]

Is the feat even Low 2-C? Since there isn't something that suggests that the dimension they destroyed was a universal sized spacetime

 

[Nullflowerblush]

kept asking that, too. nobody gave me a straight answer for some bizarre reason...

 

[Quantu]

I thought Low 2-C as a standalone feat for Gogeta + Broly has been dead in the water since the novelization...

 

[AwkguyDB]

I thought Low 2-C as a standalone feat for Gogeta + Broly has been dead in the water since the novelization...

It is

 

[Quasar002]

Por que qualquer um deles seria considerado canônico para o mangá? O primeiro está em uma continuidade própria, desconsiderado completamente com a chegada de Dragon Ball Super e deixado para apodrecer na obscuridade, e o último é explicitamente declarado em várias ocasiões como uma extensão da história do anime.

O mangá que faz referência a Broly não é prova de que o filme, um para um, também é cânone para a continuidade do mangá.

the manga explicitly leaves that the film is canonical for the manga, so much so that in the moro saga it even shows a scene of king vegeta and bardock, something from the film. There's no point in not considering it, when the manga points everything to that yes, the only one that is Incoherent is the super hero, but dbs broly has no inconsistency and quite the opposite, There are several points that point to it being canonical. You have that in the manga the fight of gogeta and broly happened, you have the events of bardock and king vegeta being mentioned, so there are several points that corroborate with being canonical.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

there are several points that corroborate with being canonical.

Is the validity of the novel one of these points? What about the dimension of swirling lights? A brief mention is all that is required to slot the entire movie into the continuity of the manga, including its light novel adaptation?

 

[Quasar002]

A validade do romance é um desses pontos? E quanto à dimensão das luzes giratórias? Uma breve adaptação dos homens é tudo o que é necessário encaixar o filme inteiro na adaptação do mangá, incluindo em light novel?

EI was just talking about the movie. But about the novel I think it can make sense too, since it's a complement to the movie that just details things and doesn't bring any inconsistency. There's also the fact that it's approved by Akira toryama so maybe it can help with that.

 

[Quantu]

I̶̶̶ ̶̶̶m̶̶̶e̶̶̶a̶̶̶n̶̶̶ ̶̶̶i̶̶̶f̶̶̶ ̶̶̶s̶̶̶o̶̶̶m̶̶̶e̶̶̶o̶̶̶n̶̶̶e̶̶̶ ̶̶̶r̶̶̶e̶̶̶a̶̶̶l̶̶̶l̶̶̶y̶̶̶ ̶̶̶w̶̶̶a̶̶̶n̶̶̶t̶s̶ ̶t̶̶̶o̶̶̶ ̶̶̶b̶̶̶e̶̶̶ ̶̶̶̶̶̶t̶̶̶h̶̶̶a̶̶̶t̶̶̶̶̶̶ ̶̶̶g̶̶̶u̶̶̶y̶̶̶,̶̶̶ ̶̶̶V̶̶̶e̶̶̶g̶̶̶e̶̶̶t̶̶̶a̶̶̶ ̶̶̶a̶̶̶n̶̶̶d̶̶̶ ̶̶̶G̶̶̶o̶̶̶k̶̶̶u̶̶̶ ̶̶̶n̶̶̶e̶̶̶v̶̶̶e̶̶̶r̶̶̶ ̶̶̶f̶̶̶o̶̶̶u̶̶̶g̶̶̶h̶̶̶t̶̶̶ ̶̶̶B̶̶̶r̶̶̶o̶̶̶l̶̶̶y̶̶̶ ̶̶̶t̶̶̶o̶̶̶g̶̶̶e̶̶̶t̶̶̶h̶̶̶e̶̶̶r̶̶̶ ̶̶̶i̶̶̶n̶̶̶ ̶̶̶t̶̶̶h̶̶̶e̶̶̶ ̶̶̶i̶̶̶c̶̶̶y̶̶̶ ̶̶̶r̶̶̶e̶̶̶g̶̶̶i̶̶̶o̶̶̶n̶̶̶ ̶̶̶a̶̶̶s̶̶̶ ̶̶̶s̶̶̶h̶̶̶o̶̶̶w̶̶̶n̶̶̶ ̶̶̶i̶̶̶n̶̶̶ ̶̶̶t̶̶̶h̶̶̶e̶̶̶ ̶̶̶m̶̶̶a̶̶̶n̶̶̶g̶̶̶a̶̶̶,̶ ̶o̶̶̶n̶̶̶l̶̶̶y̶̶̶ ̶̶̶a̶̶̶f̶̶̶t̶̶̶e̶̶̶r̶̶̶ ̶̶̶i̶̶̶t̶̶̶ ̶̶̶h̶̶̶a̶̶̶d̶̶̶ ̶̶̶b̶̶̶e̶̶̶e̶̶̶n̶̶̶ ̶̶̶t̶̶̶u̶̶̶r̶̶̶n̶̶̶e̶̶̶d̶̶̶ ̶̶̶t̶̶̶o̶̶̶ ̶̶̶ ̶̶̶l̶̶̶a̶̶̶v̶̶̶a̶̶̶

 

[RoTt35]

I thought Low 2-C as a standalone feat for Gogeta + Broly has been dead in the water since the novelization...

I asked because there are proposals to upgrade manga characters to Low 2-C based on that

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

How do we see "Shatter the fabric of reality? " Is it limited reality warping?

 

[DivineAura44]

How do we see "Shatter the fabric of reality? " Is it limited reality warping?

Probably a hyperbole if we being honest.

 

[Quantu]

How is it hyperbole, we literally see them shattering reality

 

[DivineAura44]

How is it hyperbole, we literally see them shattering reality

As visual effects??? Did you think the universe crumbled when that scene happened?

 

[Quantu]

Shattering reality =/= universal level destruction, it's usually a remark for some sort of spatial hax ability, which is what Issei was asking about in the first place

 

[DivineAura44]

Shattering reality =/= universal level destruction, it's usually a remark for some sort of spatial hax ability, which is what Issei was asking about in the first place

If you shatter reality, would you not distort the universe itself? That is what I'm referring to.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Probably a hyperbole if we being honest.

Hyperbole via what? stop embarrassing others, please, my dear friend.

 

[Quasar002]

Provavelmente uma hipérbole se formos honestos.

Well, the scene in the movie was pretty clear that it was another dimension and not just visual effects and pow, even more so with the novel complementing that they were dimensions too.

 

[SlendVeny]

Isn't Frieza being seemingly oblivious to the Fusion Dance in the movie a notable continuity error for the Broly movie with the anime too (since in the RoF anime Frieza learned what Fusion was from Gotenks)?

I sincerely doubt he cared about gotenks.

 

[DivineAura44]

Well, the scene in the movie was pretty clear that it was another dimension and not just visual effects and pow, even more so with the novel complementing that they were dimensions too.

If it's explicitly that then it should warrant something, I was just saying it wasn't the impression I got because one second Vampa the next second "Dimensional Battleground".

 

[DanielX7]

If it's explicitly that then it should warrant something, I was just saying it wasn't the impression I got because one second Vampa the next second "Dimensional Battleground".

Higher dimensional battleground...

 

[DanielX7]

Well, the scene in the movie was pretty clear that it was another dimension and not just visual effects and pow, even more so with the novel complementing that they were dimensions too.

There are not "vissual efects" in DB since the first part of the manga, in the last movie is even exposed the "comic effects" as mere holograms (so even the visual effects on the first part of the manga have some mysterious canon explanation).

 

[Nullflowerblush]

(so even the visual effects on the first part of the manga have some mysterious canon explanation).

oh, extra goofy today, eh?

 

[DanielX7]

oh, extra goofy today, eh?

Nah, I just want to be logically consistant, and the idea of trully "breaking the fourth wall" and the idea of true "plot holes" are just wrong 'cause we, as readers made something called "willing suspension of disbelief", if you think something in a novel is a "plot hole", you're not being audience of fiction, you're analysing the logic of a plot, when we are audience of a fictional work, we don't even thing in terms of "plot", we believe that the story is true to itself. So, when something apparently makes no sense in a story, we need to understand that somewhat it makes sense (even if we can't get to the explanation), JUST AS WE THINK CHARACTERS "STILL LIVE" WHEN THEY ARE OFF-SCREEN! If you believe there is a plot hole, you can't, at the same time, believe characters still "live" off-screen, so you're using a double standard of analysis, you're not being honest with it and you're not reading the novel as audience of fiction!
Understand something in a story as a plot hole, or believe characters continue their "lives", choose one or be logically inconsitant.
The worst thing, is that most supposed "plot holes" are actually EVIDENTLY explained in the stories (unless we talk about trully trash writting), you just need to understand it better, there is no EVIDENT (apparent) contradiction at all (again, unless we talk about trash writting).

 

[DanielX7]

oh, extra goofy today, eh?

If we see (and confirm) in our world something that makes no sense to our best scientific theory, we don't think that the world is wrong, we just understand our best theory is wrong (but less wrong that less "right" theories). Because of the willing suspension of disbelief, we have to think the same when we think about fiction. Currently, our best scientific theories (QFT and GR) expose things like "locality", the "passing of time" and even matter and forms as "apparent" or "emergent", and people like David Hume exposed that even the idea of causality is wrong (which evidently makes sense to GR, being that theory an eternalist one). We just don't truly understan the world, and again, because the willing suspension of disbelief, we must thing the same to fiction while we're audience. We don't truly understand any verse, we just have theories (and their respective models) about those "worlds", just as we do with the "real world".

 

[Antvasima]

So are you all scaling the Dragon Ball Super manga from a novel description, and if so, how do you know that both of them follow the exact same canon?

So about this...

Also, what are the conclusions here so far?

 

[Eseseso]

It seems to me that the large majority agrees with Op and manga scaling, although manga scaling should probably be left for another CRT once this is accepted.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

So about this...

Also, what are the conclusions here so far?

everyone agrees

 

[Eseseso]

Once this is accepted I can make the manga scaling CRT.

Then we can do DBS anime vs DBS manga low 2-C vs matches!

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Once this is accepted I can make the manga scaling CRT.

Then we can do DBS anime vs DBS manga low 2-C vs matches!

agree, could you humbly do this?

 

[Eseseso]

agree, could you humbly do this?

Once this is accepted and applied.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Once this is accepted and applied.

Ok

 

[RoTt35]

Again, from where did Low 2-C come from?

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Again, from where did Low 2-C come from?

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Only thing that applies is support for the anime continuity's Low 2-C characters

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Again, from where did Low 2-C come from?

It was explained just above, stop asking the same thing.

 

[Eseseso]

Again, from where did Low 2-C come from?

Gogeta and Broly shattering dimensions.

 

[RoTt35]

Gogeta and Broly shattering dimensions.

That means nothing if there isn't any statement that time has been destroyed nor that the dimensions are universal in size

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

That means nothing if there isn't any statement that time has been destroyed nor that the dimensions are universal in size

Anything else, sir?

 

[RoTt35]

Nice, where is it mentioned that they destroyed time or that the dimension is universal in size?