Dragon Ball Super - Broly and Gogeta Justification Addition

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Okay. Can somebody explain the arguments and exact intended revisions in a sufficiently elaborate but easy to understand manner please?

Gogeta and Broly cracked a reality at the base of the punches and broke a dimension, everyone who picks up Ps on top of Broly and Gogeta must be scaled

Goku, Frieza, Gas, Granola, Moro, Merus, Vegeta

 

[Eseseso]

Can someone please explain how the manga characters scale to Broly?

People keep saying Moro arc vegeta surpassed him but I've yet to find a link for it.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Can someone please explain how the manga characters scale to Broly?

People keep saying Moro arc vegeta surpassed him but I've yet to find a link for it.

Goku, Vegeta, and Granolah are said to be the three strongest warriors in the universe

Obviously this was stated before Gas became the strongest

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Again.

How Low 2-C without time?

 

[Eseseso]

Goku, Vegeta, and Granolah are said to be the three strongest warriors in the universe

Obviously this was stated before Gas became the strongest

Wasn't there also something about SSBE Vegeta in the Moro arc surpassing Broly?

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Wasn't there also something about SSBE Vegeta in the Moro arc surpassing Broly?

I don't know

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Wasn't there also something about SSBE Vegeta in the Moro arc surpassing Broly?

 

[Spinoirr]

Remember this is before he got ue and zenkis on planet cereal

 

[Vladimir]

At the beginning of the arc, whis says that he didn't know anyone more powerful than Goku and Vegeta, Vegeta didn't even have UE at that moment, only Blue Evolution, apart from the arc it's about the most powerful warriors, Broly is not included.

 

[Vladimir]

As far as the light novel is concerned, it is a complementary material that does not contradict the manga at all, it is properly canonical, mainly because it is a material that details the film.

 

[Eseseso]

Ok, then everyone post Moro arc who scales to Goku and Vegeta is low 2-C, I guess.

This would be:

1. Probably Golden Frieza (due to somewhat holding his own against SSJ Broly AND tanking a 30-minute beatdown from SSJ Broly)

2. DEFINITELY Black Frieza

3. Granolah

4. Gas

Maybe Beerus too?

 

[Spinoirr]

Remember when goku said to Moro 7-3 he is the strongest foe he has faced up until then

 

[DanielX7]

Gogeta and Broly cracked a reality at the base of the punches and broke a dimension, everyone who picks up Ps on top of Broly and Gogeta must be scaled

Goku, Frieza, Gas, Granola, Moro, Merus, Vegeta

And Gohan, Cell Max, Piccolo and the Gammas.

 

[SlendVeny]

Ok, then everyone post Moro arc who scales to Goku and Vegeta is low 2-C, I guess.

This would be:

1. Probably Golden Frieza (due to somewhat holding his own against SSJ Broly AND tanking a 30-minute beatdown from SSJ Broly)

2. DEFINITELY Black Frieza

3. Granolah

4. Gas

Maybe Beerus too?

Obviously Beerus.

 

[Eseseso]

Obviously Beerus.

Depends, since IMO he is probably above SSJ Broly since LSSJ Broly >> SSJ Gogeta = SSJ Broly and LSSJ Broly is only "probably" above Beerus, but that means that Jiren and ToP manga UI Goku get Low 2-C

 

[SlendVeny]

Depends, since IMO he is probably above SSJ Broly since LSSJ Broly >> SSJ Gogeta = SSJ Broly and LSSJ Broly is only "probably" above Beerus, but that means that Jiren and ToP manga UI Goku get Low 2-C

Beerus is stronger than them in the current manga, I believe.

 

[Antvasima]

So are you all scaling the Dragon Ball Super manga from a novel description, and if so, how do you know that both of them follow the exact same canon?

 

[Nullflowerblush]

The real question is: how do we consider Broly, which is explicitly branching off of the anime to the manga in the first place but not Resurrection 'F'?

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

The real question is: how do we consider Broly, which is explicitly branching off of the anime to the manga in the first place but not Resurrection 'F'?

We do consider Resurrection F to the manga

 

[AguilaR202]

Basically what is being proposed here that the novel is used for further context to establish a feat in the movie, as it expands on details while sharing the same history beats.

And since the manga builds upon the movie then it makes sense to scale feats from it to the manga.

the latter is a lot harder to pass as toyble changes the events in his recap featuring stuff we didn’t see in the movie.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

manga builds upon the movie

The manga mentions Broly sparsely.

toyble changes the events in his recap featuring stuff we didn’t see in the movie.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

So are you all scaling the Dragon Ball Super manga from a novel description, and if so, how do you know that both of them follow the exact same canon?

All Dragon Ball Super media is canon, there is no contradiction against the novel.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

So are you all scaling the Dragon Ball Super manga from a novel description, and if so, how do you know that both of them follow the exact same canon?

the FnF manga is considered for the manga, logically the Broly movie too, ends up taking the Novel into consideration since it is the movie itself with more riches of details.

 

[AwkguyDB]

I agree with the evidence since its all there clear as day in the movie and since the Official Light Novel is just descriptive of the movie events. I also agree that this should bump up the power levels of the manga cast Moro arc and beyond

 

[AwkguyDB]

Good job Toby

Now the question is, how far into baseline is this feat, is at or above the baseline?

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Good job Toby

Now the question is, how far into baseline is this feat, is at or above the baseline?

I believe that above the baseline, the crazies rolled up with a reality and destroyed several dimensions inside, I believe they even have interaction with 4D

 

[Vladimir]

There's nothing to say about the canonicity of the novel, as I can tell, it's the detailed movie, everything in Dbs is overseen by Akira Toriyama, if he approves it's certainly within canonicity, there's no reason not to consider a novel though, as I said, it is simply the film written with extra details, the disregard of the novel is the same as disregarding the V-Jumps that complement the work with extra elements that were not previously mentioned within the manga itself.

 

[Vladimir]

Eu concordo com as evidências, já que tudo está claro como o dia no filme e já que a Light Novel Oficial é apenas descritiva dos eventos do filme. Eu também concordo que isso deve aumentar os níveis de poder do arco Moro do elenco de mangá e além

Correto, a light novel, além de não ser contraditória, é igual aos V-Jumps, servem para complementar e detalhar o trabalho.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

the same as disregarding the V-Jumps that complement the work with extra elements that were not previously mentioned within the manga itself.

i mean...

don't we already do this?

 

[AwkguyDB]

Should we be doing this?

 

[Nullflowerblush]

the FnF manga is considered for the manga, logically the Broly movie too

Why would either be considered canon to the manga? The former is in a continuity of its own, disregarded completely with the arrival of Dragon Ball Super and left to rot in obscurity, and the latter is explicitly stated on numerous occasions to be an extension of the anime's story.

The manga referencing Broly is not proof that the movie, one-to-one, is canon to the manga continuity, too.

 

[AwkguyDB]

It seems to me that the Dragon Ball Super: Broly movie is "canon" to the general plot outlines itself, not specifically to the manga or the anime. This would make sense as to why we saw no anime/manga specific forms from Goku or Vegeta during the course of the movie (Kaiou-ken Blue, Perfected Blue, etc).

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

Isn't Frieza being seemingly oblivious to the Fusion Dance in the movie a notable continuity error for the Broly movie with the anime too (since in the RoF anime Frieza learned what Fusion was from Gotenks)?

 

[AwkguyDB]

One day he’ll draw it?
“A cool Broli”
…Will we be able to see a Toyotarō-style Broli in the future?
“This movie is an extension of Super (reference to the Manga), so I believe that someday the time will come to draw him,” he said, with a look of certainty. “I’m thankful that the movie came before the comic. There are lots of battle scenes in the movie, but if I were to go first, I wouldn’t have been able to draw them in that much detail. When the time comes, I’d like to use the movie as a reference to make it look cool in my own way,” he said with a smile.
~Toyotaro

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Isn't Frieza being seemingly oblivious to the Fusion Dance in the movie a notable continuity error for the Broly movie with the anime too (since in the RoF anime Frieza learned what Fusion was from Gotenks)?

He sees the boys defuse, and the thought that they fused never crosses his mind cuz he gets caught up in the fact that there's more Saiyan offspring

 

[AwkguyDB]

Isn't Frieza being seemingly oblivious to the Fusion Dance in the movie a notable continuity error for the Broly movie with the anime too (since in the RoF anime Frieza learned what Fusion was from Gotenks)?

I think he was just oblivious to the fact that Goku and Vegeta could do it

 

[Nullflowerblush]

• Toriyama states, "The Dragon Ball Super movie this time will be the next story in the series currently airing on TV. It will be an episode after catching our breath from the climax of the Tournament of Power with the universe’s existence on the line...", and "Now then, the animated version on TV will be ending for the time being, but the very popular Dragon Ball Super comic drawn by [Toyotarō will] keep on going as-is. I think there will also be story developments different from the TV show and the movie, so please look forward to that as well. I will be, too!"
• When Goku was describing the "strong opponents" from the various universes he faced in the Tournament of Power, alongside Jiren and the Pride Troopers, Kefla and Ribrianne were presented front and center, enemies Goku only faced in the anime.
• Super Hero is the explicit sequel to Super: Broly and depicts Gohan struggling to tap into his Ultimate power, which he struggles with in the anime, and using Super Saiyan, which betrays his denouncement of his Super Saiyan form in the manga, and the Great Namekian form being foreign to Gohan and the rest of the Z-Fighters (barring Krillin), despite Seven-Three using the form in front of the lot in the manga.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Por que qualquer um deles seria considerado canônico para o mangá? O primeiro está em uma continuidade própria, desconsiderado completamente com a chegada de Dragon Ball Super e deixado para apodrecer na obscuridade, e o último é explicitamente declarado em várias ocasiões como uma extensão da história do anime.

O mangá que faz referência a Broly não é prova de que o filme, um para um, também é cânone para a continuidade do mangá.

Since there is no evidence, but there is a passage, you must consider what is shown, if it is official and given as canon, that is enough, as there is no Broly manga, but there is a passage, they are obliged to consider the events of the movie and the novel.

 

[AwkguyDB]

• Toriyama states, "The Dragon Ball Super movie this time will be the next story in the series currently airing on TV. It will be an episode after catching our breath from the climax of the Tournament of Power with the universe’s existence on the line...", and "Now then, the animated version on TV will be ending for the time being, but the very popular Dragon Ball Super comic drawn by [Toyotarō will] keep on going as-is. I think there will also be story developments different from the TV show and the movie, so please look forward to that as well. I will be, too!"
• When Goku was describing the "strong opponents" from the various universes he faced in the Tournament of Power, alongside Jiren and the Pride Troopers, Kefla and Ribrianne were presented front and center, enemies Goku only faced in the anime.
• Super Hero is the explicit sequel to Super: Broly and depicts Gohan struggling to tap into his Ultimate power, which he struggles with in the anime, and using Super Saiyan, which betrays his denouncement of his Super Saiyan form in the manga, and the Great Namekian form being foreign to Gohan and the rest of the Z-Fighters (barring Krillin), despite Seven-Three using the form in front of the lot in the manga.

there will also be story developments different from the TV show and the movie, so please look forward to that as well. I will be, too!"
The Moro and Granolah Arc are definitely different

The Tournament of Power made Goku aware of the presence of stronger individuals period, regardless of whether he faced them or not. Goku had fought far stronger and more profound characters than Ribrianne in the anime anyways. Plus literally every GoD is in the background but Goku didn't face them at all. With this logic a push for Kai being Canon to Super could be justified because SUCH & SUCH scenes that are clear references to the anime only. (Gregory/Buu Arc Flashbacks/ History of Trunks references)

Super Hero changes nothing to the general canoncity of Broly

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

• Toriyama states, "The Dragon Ball Super movie this time will be the next story in the series currently airing on TV. It will be an episode after catching our breath from the climax of the Tournament of Power with the universe’s existence on the line...", and "Now then, the animated version on TV will be ending for the time being, but the very popular Dragon Ball Super comic drawn by [Toyotarō will] keep on going as-is. I think there will also be story developments different from the TV show and the movie, so please look forward to that as well. I will be, too!"
• When Goku was describing the "strong opponents" from the various universes he faced in the Tournament of Power, alongside Jiren and the Pride Troopers, Kefla and Ribrianne were presented front and center, enemies Goku only faced in the anime.
• Super Hero is the explicit sequel to Super: Broly and depicts Gohan struggling to tap into his Ultimate power, which he struggles with in the anime, and using Super Saiyan, which betrays his denouncement of his Super Saiyan form in the manga, and the Great Namekian form being foreign to Gohan and the rest of the Z-Fighters (barring Krillin), despite Seven-Three using the form in front of the lot in the manga.

Goku was saying EXPLICLY that the tournament had strong guys, not that he FACED, because the phrase is vague, the sense simply remains that he met strong guys, and certainly he met Kefla in the manga, at no time he cites that he faced.