Dragon Ball GT/Non-Canon Revision

[Peter1129]

Completed. New topic at the bottom of the op.

So I said I was going to make a separate thread to fix the scaling for GT so here it is. Keep in mind SS1 is accepted as a 40x multiplier on the site. It's also why some GT characters were originally 3-C upscaling from Kid Buu's 4-A feat that was over 100x away from baseline 3-C. The low end of this feat (191 ZettaFoe) was accepted and it is 45x away from baseline 3-B. Also just a heads up I'm only gonna be including the characters that have a profile.

4-A: Baby Saga Base Vegeta, Base Trunks, Pan, Ledgic, Natt, Ribet, Bizu, Nezi, and Oceanus Shenron.

At least 4-A, possibly 3-C: Super Mega Cannon Sigma.

3-C: Baby Saga Base Goku, Baby Saga SS1-SS2 Vegeta, Uub, SS1 Trunks, Infant and Teen Baby, and Base Rilldo.

At least 3-C: Super 17/Shadow Dragon Saga Base Goku, Super 17/Shadow Dragon Saga Base Vegeta, Hyper Meta Rilldo, and Shell Form Nuova Shenron.

3-C+: Baby Saga SS1 Goku and Meta-Rilldo.

At least 3-C+, likely 3-B: Fusion Reborn Gogeta.

3-B: Baby Saga SS2-SS4 Goku, Super 17/Shadow Dragon Saga SS1-SS4 Goku, Super 17/Shadow Saga SS1, SS2 and SS4 Vegeta, Majuub, Adult Baby, SS1 Baby Vegeta, Strongest Form 1 and 2 Baby Vegeta, Golden Great Ape Baby, Base Super 17, Post-10x Kamehameha Super 17, Syn Shenron, True Form Nuova Shenron, Eis Shenron, Ultimate Shenron, Base Dragon Fist, Post-Training Hero, Omega Shenron, SS4 Dragon Fist, Universal Spirit Bomb, and Post-2nd Training Hero.

3-B / At least 3-B: Dragon Ball GT Gogeta.

Now for the reasonings. SS1 Gohan and SS1 Goten despite being inferior was still able to injure Baby Saga Base Goku. So Baby Saga SS1 Lvl characters would be a lower end of 3-C scaling from Baby Saga Base Goku. And since SS1 is a 40x multiplier Baby Saga Base Saiyan Lvl characters would be 4-A backwards scaling from their Super Saiyan form.

The reason why characters like Ledgic doesn't scale to 3-C is because Goku was holding back his full power. This was shown when Base Goku easily defeated Super Mega Cannon Sigma who were confident that they could defeat Goku after they analyzed his previous battles even those as a Super Saiyan.

Finally due to how close Baby Saga SS1 Goku is to 3-B anybody that is able to easily defeat him or make him go into any form after SS1 would be 3-B. Which is pretty much everybody relevant in GT.

New Topic

3-B / At least 3-B / Possibly 3-A: Minus Energy Ball, Universal Spirit Bomb and Dragon Ball GT Gogeta

 

[Warren_Valion]

Following. And I agree.

 

[AguilaR101]

I'm sure the other tread already agreed that all characters relatively comparable to GT base Goku are 3-C and Vegeta most certainly scales to base Goku given he completely wrecked his SS3 when posessed by Baby as a mere SS1/2

 

[Peter1129]

Baby Vegeta =/= Baby Saga Vegeta. Baby Saga Vegeta had to turn SS1 to overpower SS1 Gohan and Goten while Baby Saga Goku overpowered both of them in his base form.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

I'm sure the other tread already agreed that all characters relatively comparable to GT base Goku are 3-C and Vegeta most certainly scales to base Goku given he completely wrecked his SS3 when posessed by Baby as a mere SS1/2

^this and I agree with the rest.

 

[Peter1129]

It's like everybody is just ignoring everything I say both in this thread and the previous one.

Only those that scale to Baby Saga Base Goku at Full Power are 3-C. So only the SS1 characters, Uub, Rilldo and Baby scales to him. Everybody else scales to his suppressed base form which is stronger than Base Trunks who is 4-A.

Also Baby Vegeta =/= Baby Saga Vegeta. Baby Saga Vegeta had to turn SS1 to overpower SS1 Gohan and Goten while Baby Saga Goku overpowered both of them in his base form.

 

[Warren_Valion]

I agree with Peter.

Nobody was even close to Goku's power in the series.

Vegeta had to go Super Saiyan to contend with a Super Saiyan Gohan and Goten, and he still struggled to fight both of them together. He needed to power up to his maximum, likely going Super Saiyan 2, in order to stomp them.


Baby gohan and goten vs vegeta HD-0


Goku, after Pan was knocked out and he realized that Gohan and Goten weren't right in the head, beat the shit out of his sons in his base form, until Baby-infected Vegeta cam and stomped him.


Goku vs Baby Gohan and Baby Gote

 

[Peter1129]

^Pretty much this

Even during the Super 17 Saga SS1 Goku was shown to hold his own against Super 17 much better than SS1 Vegeta who performed better than Majuub. The only time Vegeta caught up to Goku in GT was when he went SS4.

 

[Warren_Valion]

^Pretty much this
Even during the Super 17 Saga SS1 Goku was shown to hold his own against Super 17 much better than SS1 Vegeta who performed better than Majuub. The only time Vegeta caught up to Goku in GT was when he went SS4.

IIRC, wasn't Goku exhausted after fighting Syn and Omega Shenron (I think he even used the Dragon's Fist) when Vegeta became a Super Saiyan 4?

So I think SSJ4 Vegeta is comparable to an exhausted SSJ4 Goku.

And IIRC, wasn't Goku's exhausting the reason they couldn't fuse a second time, and why Goku reverted back into his base form before Vegeta did?

 

[Antvasima]

You can use the Knowledgeable Members List and the Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball GT pages to find people to ask to comment here.

You should probably also ask Promestein, Dark649, and Matthew Schroeder.

 

[Peter1129]

@Warren Valiin All I remember is that there was a guidebook that said SS4 Vegeta is equal to SS4 Goku.

 

[ZERO7772]

Why is fusion reborn Gogeta 3-B again?

 

[Peter1129]

Fusion multiplier stuff plus he should be comparable to Vegito who was stated in a guidebook to be comparable to SS4.

 

[Dark649]

I don't remember if the highest end of that calc was accepted, so i'll wait for the other Admins to respond.

 

[Peter1129]

The low end of 191 ZettaFoe was accepted. This list is based off of the low end. 191 x 40 = 7640 ZettaFoe which is 3-C+.

 

[ZERO7772]

Buu saga Vegito being comparable to SS4 is iffy tbh. Didn't Goku says Baby Vegeta had the strongest Ki he ever felt? And SS4 Goku was beating the shit out of him before he went golden ape.

The guidebooks statement doesn't hold up her.

 

[Peter1129]

Golden Great Ape Baby was slightly stronger than SS4 Goku before he powered up thanks to Gohan, Trunks, Goten and Pan. Also Baby Vegeta having the strongest Ki he has ever felt is consistent with how Baby was at the time the strongest enemy he has faced.

 

[DMUA]

This seems good.

 

[Elizhaa]

Wasn't Super Saiyan Multiplier rejected as listed in the Multipliers page

Multipliers without reliable statements

• Dragon Ball Super Saiyan Multipliers: Rejected due to never being stated in the actual series. Furthermore often seem to multiply in-universe power levels and not actual power. They often seem inconsistent, like for example the x2 SSJ2 multiplier turning a stomp around.

 

[Peter1129]

The official 50x was rejected. But 40x scaling from 100% Frieza being 2x 50% Frieza who is comparable to the KKx20 was accepted.

 

[Elizhaa]

OKay, then the OP looks reasonable to me

 

[ZERO7772]

According to the anime: SS2 Baby is stronger than Vegito and SS4 Goku was destroying SS2 Baby. For all we know that guide was maybe referring to hypothetical SSJ Vegito.

Buu saga Vegito =/= SS4 Goku

Everything else is fine.

 

[Peter1129]

Well I guess I could Low Ball it and make Fusion Reborn Gogeta At least 3-C+ Likely 3-B. Since his Base form should be far more powerful than SS3 Toei Goku.

 

[Warren_Valion]

IIRC, Goku said Baby in his second form was the strongest ki he ever felt. This could mean anything from being stronger than Buuhan, to Super Vegito, to a hypothetical Super Saiyan 3 Vegito as he should have known Vegito's full strength. It's really unclear.

Baby then powered up to his third form, and was ******** his pants at Golden Great Ape Goku, and was stomped by SSJ4 Goku.

So saying that Super Vegito = SSJ4 seems inaccurate. I'd disregard the guidebook.

 

[Peter1129]

Yeah I guess At least 3-C+ Likely 3-B seems better as a low ball for Fusion Reborn Gogeta than.

 

[Kepekley23]

1. Super Baby Vegeta 2 was stated to have the greatest ki Goku had ever felt. Considering characters are able to feel their own ki, as demonstrated by Goku gaping at his own power after getting a zenkai in the Healing Machine & Gohan feeling his owwn ki after having his potential unlocked by Old Kai, that means he's stronger than Vegito.

2. Gogeta shouldn't be anywhere near Vegito either way.

 

[Warren_Valion]

1. Super Baby Vegeta 2 was stated to have the greatest ki Goku had ever felt. Considering characters are able to feel their own ki, as demonstrated by Goku gaping at his own power after getting a zenkai in the Healing Machine & Gohan feeling his owwn ki after having his potential unlocked by Old Kai, that means he's stronger than Vegito.
2. Gogeta shouldn't be anywhere near Vegito either way.

Was it 2? I thought it was 1.

My apologizes.

 

[Peter1129]

Super Baby Vegeta 2 doesn't exist. I think you guys are talking about Strongest Form 2 Baby Vegeta.

 

[Kepekley23]

Depends on the terminology. Super Baby Vegeta 3 is the one Goku stomped, the way I write it.

2 is the one with the shoulderpads.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Well, the DB Wikia says either name is applicable.

"In this form Baby is known as Super Baby Vegeta 2[4] or Super Baby 2 (Òé╣Òâ╝ÒâæÒâ╝ÒâÖÒâôÒâ╝´╝Æ).[1][5] It is also called Super Baby (Strongest Form 2) in the Dragon Ball GT Perfect Files."

 

[Warren_Valion]

Depends on the terminology. Super Baby Vegeta 3 is the one Goku stomped, the way I write it.
2 is the one with the shoulderpads.

Oh I see.

 

[Peter1129]

From what I know this is how Baby Vegeta's forms go.

Base Baby Vegeta -> Super Baby Vegeta 1 -> Strongest Form 1 Baby Vegeta -> Strongest Form 2 Baby Vegeta

 

[Kepekley23]

"Omega Shenron" doesn't exist either, and neither does "Kid" Boo. You are talking about Yi Xing Long and Pure Boo.

It's just a catchy, westernized version of the name, much like Kid Boo and Omega Shenron.

 

[Peter1129]

Oh so it's just naming problems.

 

[Jobbo]

1. Super Baby Vegeta 2 was stated to have the greatest ki Goku had ever felt. Considering characters are able to feel their own ki, as demonstrated by Goku gaping at his own power after getting a zenkai in the Healing Machine & Gohan feeling his owwn ki after having his potential unlocked by Old Kai, that means he's stronger than Vegito.
2. Gogeta shouldn't be anywhere near Vegito either way.

Goku said the same thing about Janemba and then stomped him.

 

[AppleLord]

OKay, then the OP looks reasonable to me

 

[Dark649]

Pan and Base Trunks need better justifications rather than scaling them to eachother, which is strange since i recall Pan dominating over Base Goten who is = Base Trunks at the end of Z, so she should do the same in GT. I will rewatch Ledgic and Oceanus episode to check if they should be really downgraded.

 

[Kepekley23]

He said only Majin Boo had ever forced him to go SSj3 while complimenting Janemba, not that Janemba had the greatest ki he'd ever felt, as far as I'm aware.

 

[Dark649]

Kep is right, Goku never told Janemba he had the greatest ki he'd ever felt.

 

[Peter1129]

@Dark649 Ledgic doesn't scale since Mega Cannon Sigma believed they could take out Goku after analyzing all his previous battles including the fight against Ledgic from Gill. But in the end they were still stomped by Base Goku's Full Power even after fusing into Super Mega Cannon Sigma.

Oceanus Shenron also doesn't scale because Shell Form Nuova Shenron who was stated to be leagues beyond the previous Shadow Dragons was only equal to Shadow Dragon Saga Base Goku. Also she was hurt by Pan's Kamehameha. And Pan was running away from Base Rilldo who was slightly weaker than Baby Saga Base Goku during the Super 17 Saga which takes place just a few days before the Shadow Dragon Saga.