Divine Dimensional Dance 2nd round: Shinza Gods downgrade

[PrinceofPein]

I answered this. Without more precisions I wouldn't give the dude 1-A, he would be 1-C.

I am asking for tier you will place him not about 1A or anything just the tier he qualifies for

1. There are higher dimensions although we dont know to which level and its higher infinities
2. He transcends the entire creation and he is disconnected from it while able to control and manipulate everything within in.

 

[QuasiYuri]

I am asking for tier you will place him not about 1A or anything just the tier he qualifies for

1. There are higher dimensions although we dont know to which level and its higher infinities
2. He transcends the entire creation and he is disconnected from it while able to control and manipulate everything within in.

I already gave the tier. Just read. It's making the thread longer for nothing. If you truly want to continue this Q&A, better doing it in PM.

 

[Darksmash]

If the higher dimensions of the verse also use a painting analogy, and the 1-A transcendence is also argued from the same reasoning, does anyone not see the issue here? "Being completely beyond the reach of everything inside the painting while existing disconnected to it" can be equally applicable whether the transcendence is 1-B or 1-A, because 1-B transcendences in the verse also have similar description (More like the only description used for them)

Being the source of all concepts is good and all, but it would be good if someone can clear up what "being the source of dimensions" would mean in Shinza, and why it would include any arbitrary number of higher dimensions. Because Taiji is also said to be the source of concept of space, and the same reasoning is used to put Singularity at 1-A, but the word "space" is still used in Singularity's description.

I know I know metaphoric and all, but think about it, if the "concept of space" would have included all extensions based on the idea of space, would all forms of "space" not have fallen under it whether they are Metaphoric or not? That means these concepts would have a scope within the verse as well.

How can we know what the scope of these "concepts" is?

 

[PrinceofPein]

I already gave the tier. Just read.

You said 1C, which is wrong since you don't know the layers of dimensions within the verse, and the fact that the said creation can't affect the character.

 

[Antvasima]

Should I ask the rest of our staff for help again?

 

[PrinceofPein]

but the word "space" is still used in Singularity's description.

1A space? I'm sure the world space was also used for where azathoth resides, where feathering resides. It just depends on the context it was used

 

[Antvasima]

Darksmash brings up a valid point here in any case.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Should I ask the rest of our staff for help again?

Would be nice

 

[QuasiYuri]

You said 1C, which is wrong since you don't know the layers of dimensions within the verse, and the fact that the said creation can't affect the character.

Not inventing additional layers because of lack of info and treating a R/F diff as a R/F diff is so wrong. Think I'm gonna regret not making all my Low 1-C tier 0 next time.
This little Q&A isn't helping, and just show a lack of comprehension of the tiering system or the wiki in general.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Being the source of all concepts is good and all, but it would be good if someone can clear up what "being the source of dimensions" would mean in Shinza, and why it would include any arbitrary number of higher dimensions

Okay let me clear this up with things from the verse
Yes taikyoku is the source of dimensions, it can control and manipulate it as it seems fit and it is also disconnected from it.

Does this answer your question?

 

[QuasiYuri]

If the higher dimensions of the verse also use a painting analogy, and the 1-A transcendence is also argued from the same reasoning, does anyone not see the issue here? "Being completely beyond the reach of everything inside the painting while existing disconnected to it" can be equally applicable whether the transcendence is 1-B or 1-A, because 1-B transcendences in the verse also have similar description (More like the only description used for them)

Being the source of all concepts is good and all, but it would be good if someone can clear up what "being the source of dimensions" would mean in Shinza, and why it would include any arbitrary number of higher dimensions. Because Taiji is also said to be the source of concept of space, and the same reasoning is used to put Singularity at 1-A, but the word "space" is still used in Singularity's description.

I know I know metaphoric and all, but think about it, if the "concept of space" would have included all extensions based on the idea of space, would all forms of "space" not have fallen under it whether they are Metaphoric or not? That means these concepts would have a scope within the verse as well.

How can we know what the scope of these "concepts" is?

Good point here.

Also on the scope thing, I'm pretty sure we usually take stuff that way. Like, if someone stated to transcend the concept of space and time get affected by a Time Stop on their level, it just means the concepts they transcended were on a specific scope for example.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Not inventing additional layers because of lack of info and treating a R/F diff as a R/F diff is so wrong. Think I'm gonna regret not making all my Low 1-C tier 0 next time.
This little Q&A isn't helping, and just show a lack of comprehension of the tiering system or the wiki in general.

I didn't ask you to invent additional layers, I asked a very straightforward question. You are the source of space, concept, dimensions, phenomena e.t.c. and you can manipulate it at will while you are also disconnected from it in a painter to canvas manner, what's your tier?

I guess the entire DC verse is 1B cause they end at 5D and have few statements about surpassing the concept of space and time?

 

[Infera28]

I think you just proved a R/F difference. Shinza isn't the first to have these kind of statements, but it sure is the only one to gain the 1-A favor.

A degree of reality and fiction is when only one dimension is higher than someone else, not transcending all concepts, dualities, laws, phenomena, reality and higher dimensions and it was said that their changes do not affect each other in any way. Even if its R/F difference then it is 1-A R/F difference. R/F difference isn't same in any work of fiction.

This argument is really getting ridiculous and it seems like we are clearly going to downplay shinza.

And you can have your opinion but so far DarkDragonMedeus, KingTempest, Planck69, KingPin0422, Matthew_Schroeder,TISSG7Redgrave were leaning towards staying 1-A

Some scans aren't translated or just 3 lines sentences tho.

At first I sent the english translation of all of them, but you said that a series of words were misswritten, so I also sent them in japanese

And a feat can happen in half a line. Author's is not going to explain 50 lines for each feat

It seems that it does not matter what I do, you are going to oppose in the end

 

[Infera28]

........

What proves that they are not beyond all extensions of those concepts? When it has been said many times that gods transcended anything and everything, gods are disconnected to them and the changes of those concepts do not affect the gods in any way and the gods are immutable and those concepts in comparison with the gods are pictures and gods are outside of picture regardless of circumstances? and even non-god characters in the series could reproduce all concepts including higher dimensions

The author is supposed to write in his story exactly that the gods are beyond all extensions of concepts?

If we are to be this strict, then I think there is no world in fiction 1-A

 

[Darksmash]

Yes taikyoku is the source of dimensions, it can control and manipulate it as it seems fit and it is also disconnected from it.

That doesn't help much, unless we are given some concrete feats to back up that this "control" includes adding any arbitrary amount of higher dimensions as the Hadou Gods see fit

 

[QuasiYuri]

A degree of reality and fiction is when only one dimension is higher than someone else, not transcending all concepts, dualities, laws, phenomena, reality and higher dimensions and it was said that their changes do not affect each other in any way. Even if its R/F difference then it is 1-A R/F difference. R/F difference isn't same in any work of fiction.

This argument is really getting ridiculous and it seems like we are clearly going to downplay shinza.

We're badly treating Shinza for years, calling a call for attention downplay is kind of ironic.

And you can have your opinion but so far DarkDragonMedeus, KingTempest, Planck69, KingPin0422, Matthew_Schroeder,TISSG7Redgrave were leaning towards staying 1-A

Two are neutral, one agree, and 3 aren't staffs.
Non staffs are not included (otherwise there's a lot to count), neutral ones are, well, neutral. And both sides have one agreement (Planck 69 - Ogbunabali).

At first I sent the english translation of all of them, but you said that a series of words were misswritten, so I also sent them in japanese

And a feat can happen in half a line. Author's is not going to explain 50 lines for each feat

It seems that it does not matter what I do, you are going to oppose in the end

You're supposed to give a translation of the raws alongside them, preferrably from official translation thread as far as I know.

You litteraly called scenes bigger than everything you sent wrong because I didn't give the whole 30 minutes thing, so that doesn't work.

Could say the exact same. I don't see why I should accept 1-A when the feats aren't enough to qualify.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Not inventing additional layers because of lack of info and treating a R/F diff as a R/F diff is so wrong. Think I'm gonna regret not making all my Low 1-C tier 0 next time.
This little Q&A isn't helping, and just show a lack of comprehension of the tiering system or the wiki in general.

Not like two wrongs make a right or anything.

Tell me the difference between this
"Monitor-Mind the Overvoid is the void of absolute nothingness that encompasses creation, standing outside of its deepest reaches, beyond all dual concepts and the stories which form around them, being the crumbling point in which all things cease to be, and the background of all stories and ideas within DC Comics itself."

and the singularity of shinza verse

 

[QuasiYuri]

What proves that they are not beyond all extensions of those concepts?

The fact that everything you listed can be done with one layer of transcendance?
And surprise no surprise, we are strict about 1-A.

 

[PrinceofPein]

That doesn't help much, unless we are given some concrete feats to back up that this "control" includes adding any arbitrary amount of higher dimensions as the Hadou Gods see fit

Oh you mean bring about like 11111D space e.t.c.?
There are no feats but statements

 

[QuasiYuri]

Not like two wrongs make a right or anything.

Tell me the difference between this
"Monitor-Mind the Overvoid is the void of absolute nothingness that encompasses creation, standing outside of its deepest reaches, beyond all dual concepts and the stories which form around them, being the crumbling point in which all things cease to be, and the background of all stories and ideas within DC Comics itself."

and the singularity of shinza verse

Take your own first sentence, and you just answered yourself.

DC rating is currently wrong, and is going to be downgraded. It's nearly supporting me more than anything.

 

[PrinceofPein]

DC rating is currently wrong, and is going to be downgraded.

good luck with that
Tag me when you start the thread

Take your own first sentence, and you just answered yourself.

I only asked what the difference between the two is? Frankly none, anyway its cool.

 

[Darksmash]

Oh you mean bring about like 11111D space e.t.c.?

Not necessarily, just telling us something to indicate that they exist outside any numbered extension of higher dimensions

 

[QuasiYuri]

good luck with that
Tag me when you start the thread

I'm not the one doing it, there's a wiki project to remake both DC and Marvel, and it is currently on the downgrade side.

I only asked what the difference between the two is? Frankly none, anyway its cool.

You're only reading what's going in your way? It doesn't matter.

 

[QuasiYuri]

Not necessarily, just telling us something to indicate that they exist outside any numbered extension of higher dimensions

There's no statement about it yeah.

I mean, it's not like you can both get blocked by a certain number of higher dimensions and get such statement anyway.

 

[PrinceofPein]

I mean, it's not like you can both get blocked by a certain number of higher dimensions and get such statement anyway.

Dimensions created by taikyoku?

 

[PrinceofPein]

Not necessarily, just telling us something to indicate that they exist outside any numbered extension of higher dimensions

Just statements

You're only reading what's going in your way? It doesn't matter.

Just saying

I'm not the one doing it, there's a wiki project to remake both DC and Marvel, and it is currently on the downgrade side.

Where can I check out the project?

 

[QuasiYuri]

Dimensions created by taikyoku?

Just summoned. Mukei can't enhance or change what dimensions are.

 

[QuasiYuri]

Where can I check out the project?

It's a private group conversation.

 

[QuasiYuri]

Just statements

Also, I'm pretty sure Darkmash is asking for the statement proving that "they exist outside any numbered extension of higher dimensions". Not asking if it is a feat or statement.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Just summoned. Mukei can't enhance or change what dimensions are.

If you can bring proof that he can't change or his taikyoku doesn't affect what he summons at all that will be nice, cause I'm sure he can summon comets that can harm tenmas, unless the tenmas are now like 4-B in durability this shouldn't be possible

It's a private group conversation.

Oh shucks

 

[PrinceofPein]

Also, I'm pretty sure Darkmash is asking for the statement proving that "they exist outside any numbered extension of higher dimensions". Not asking if it is a feat or statement.

He said do they have feat, after I told him about the statements parts

 

[QuasiYuri]

If you can bring proof that he can't change or his taikyoku doesn't affect what he summons at all that will be nice, cause I'm sure he can summon comets that can harm tenmas, unless the tenmas are now like 4-B in durability this shouldn't be possible

I litteraly did. Both on this page and pages before. And others did the same. That's the whole thing about Yakou's Mukei/Colorless Taiji.

Also by "comet" I guess you mean the meteor used on Tenma Awaumi. A w a u m i. The guy who's the equivalent of Rot Spinne in the Yatsukahagi. How would he even survive the meteor?

 

[PrinceofPein]

I litteraly did. Both on this page and pages before. And others did the same. That's the whole thing about Yakou's Colorless Taiji.

I must have missed it, can you tag it.
I mean prove that he can't affect what he summon with his taikyoku

Also by "comet" I guess you mean the meteor used on Tenma Awaumi. A w a u m i. The guy who's the equivalent of Rot Spinne in the Yatsukahagi.

Yes the meteor, unless the tenma is now 4-B, 4-C, I dont think a meteor can affect her which shows yes he can boost whatever he summons

 

[QuasiYuri]

I must have missed it, can you tag it.
I mean prove that he can't affect what he summon with his taikyoku

Must have missed lots of thing.

夜行は森羅万象を司る座に達しているため、これは厳密なところ異能ではない。単に宇宙の物理現象ならば何でも出来るということであり、世界法則を歪める異能とはまったく逆の部類と言える。

Strictly speaking, this is not an extraordinary ability, since Yakou has reached the thronethat governs everything. It simply means that he can realize any physical phenomena of the universe, which is the complete opposite of the ability to distort the laws of the world.

He can just realize stuff, not change them.

Yes the meteor, unless the tenma is now 4-B, 4-C, I dont think a meteor can affect her which shows yes he can boost whatever he summons

Her? Awaumi isn't a girl.

And I'm pretty sure a tier 4 would one shot Awaumi by sneezing. Yakou didn't boost anything.

 

[Infera28]

We're badly treating Shinza for years, calling a call for attention downplay is kind of ironic.

Because you are clearly downplaying the verse

Two are neutral, one agree, and 3 aren't staffs.

They were neutral but leaning towards staying 1-A so and Ogbunabali has not commented his take yet

You're supposed to give a translation of the raws alongside them, preferrably from official translation thread as far as I know.

I already sent their translations too

You litteraly called scenes bigger than everything you sent wrong because I didn't give the whole 30 minutes thing, so that doesn't work.

The reason was that Sleepy, who read the novel unlike you, disagreed with you

Clearly, I prefer the words of someone who has read the novel to those who have second-hand information

The fact that everything you listed can be done with one layer of transcendance?
And surprise no surprise, we are strict about 1-A.

One layer of transcendence is 1-A then

 

[PrinceofPein]

Must have missed lots of thing.

夜行は森羅万象を司る座に達しているため、これは厳密なところ異能ではない。単に宇宙の物理現象ならば何でも出来るということであり、世界法則を歪める異能とはまったく逆の部類と言える。

Strictly speaking, this is not an extraordinary ability, since Yakou has reached the thronethat governs everything. It simply means that he can realize any physical phenomena of the universe, which is the complete opposite of the ability to distort the laws of the world.

He can just realize stuff, not change them.

I think this is the explanation of the yin/yang and him able to do one part cause he has no craving,
And yes I dont think this means those things he summons are not affected by taikyoku

Her? Awaumi isn't a girl.

My mistake

And I'm pretty sure a tier 4 would one shot Awaumi by sneezing. Yakou didn't boost anything.

He is still a tenma with taikyoku even though he is the weakest, he has taikyoku

 

[Infera28]

These days, creating the the very idea of dimensions, fully exising outside of it and having dozens statements for transcending it only implies one layer of R/F and you are still somehow bounded by dimensions i guess

 

[QuasiYuri]

Because you are clearly downplaying the verse

Based on...? Someone who doesn't care about making profiles right saying this is kinda rubbing me the wrong way.

They were neutral but leaning towards staying 1-A so and Ogbunabali has not commented his take yet

Commented on page 2 or 3.

The reason was that Sleepy, who read the novel unlike you, disagreed with you

Assumption.
Also I could say the opposite, which is that japanese people who read the novel actually agree with me.

Clearly, I prefer the words of someone who has read the novel to those who have second-hand information

Assumption again. How are they "second-hand information"?

 

[QuasiYuri]

These days, creating the the very idea of dimensions, fully exising outside of it and having dozens statements for transcending it only implies one layer of R/F and you are still somehow bounded by dimensions i guess

These days, being blocked by dimensions and stated to be higher dimensionnal as an explanation of your nature mean you are fully transcendant over them in any shape, size, and form.
Childish game, uh.

 

[QuasiYuri]

I think this is the explanation of the yin/yang and him able to do one part cause he has no craving,
And yes I dont think this means those things he summons are not affected by taikyoku

It isn't talking about Onmyoudou.
Lack of craving is directly linked to his Taiji
Based on...? Besides your assumptions

He is still a tenma with taikyoku even though he is the weakest, he has taikyoku

He doesn't. Were you talking about K3 and Shinza's tier without knowing the subject since the beginning?