Devil May Cry - Universe Level Mundus

[CrossverseCrisis]

If At least 3-A possibly Low 2-C is not accepeted, then 3-A is something i'd go for.

Of course for me, this is if we the majority here manage to actually accept the statement regardless of what's happening around it that's been said about it.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Why not just say possibly 3-A to Low 2-C just in case? For convenience's sake? That would satisfy people easily.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

We cannot really say possibly when WoG makes it very clear that Mundus performed a Universal feat.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

True but as you said above it might be just said on a whim. I think I also heard this argument for you or others claiming that this was a bit outlier-ish? Then again I'm only a small fan of the series and wouldn't mind whether this gets accepted or not but it does come off as a bit startling so yeah.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

I just described why it's not outlier in this thread, and in many many others. It's only startling because it's a massive power boost, which is more common than you think in fiction (Goku being a prime example)

Plus it seems that I have gathered 9 supporters, some of them being admins,calc group members and even a bureaucrat.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

As I've already said, not really sure I have an opinion here, except for the fact that if it is implemented, it is a 3-A feat.

 

[LordXcano]

Just thought I'd say that if Mundus created a universe with no space-time then he is 2-C for being able to exist in a place without any space-time. If he created a universe with space-time then he is 2-C for creating a place with space-time.

 

[Grudgeman1706]

Damn i didnt know that so he's 2-C regardless

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Just thought I'd say that if Mundus created a universe with no space-time then he is 2-C for being able to exist in a place without any space-time. If he created a universe with space-time then he is 2-C for creating a place with space-time.

You do not need to create space-time if space-time already exists.

He isn't Arceus.

I'm also pretty sure moving in a place without space-time is a speed feat, not an AP feat.

 

[LordXcano]

How can you make a universe without making a new space-time. Going very far away and then making a bunch of matter isn't making a universe it's just adding to a pre-existing one.

Surviving in a place without space-time is a durability and speed feat.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

The space-time is not strictly part of a single universe. In fiction, two universes can share a single space-time. There just needs to be something to separate them, which can be as simple as a force composed of basic matter and energy as a sort of barrier. You do not need to make space-time if it already exists, and it will not be assumed as such.

Yes, but it is not a Low 2-C durability feat. At all.

 

[Lina_Shields]

@lordx: Perhaps an example of universes existing without space-time is involved would be like the universes in Dragonball S (universe 6?)

Reading the posts here, if Mundus did create the DMC universe when there was no space-time before to begin with, Mundus is mostly likely to be Low 2-C for creating a universe (including space-time). Existing in a place where there is no space-time to begin with could mean that Mundus is likely a 4-D being, or above.

However, I am not sure if a statement as vague as this should be considered, seeing that Kamiya may not care all that much if Mundus really did create a universe or not. The only feat we see anything even close to this was when Majin Dante fought Mundus in his alternate universe, and that was a rather dubious feat to begin with.

In any case, I am leaning more towards Low 2-C rather than 3-A, probably due to the fact that when Mundus created the DMC universe (or split in two), there was no space-time before to begin with.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

snip

This is referring to the fight at the end of the game, actually.

 

[Aparajita]

Support the upgrade. I've thought Mundus was Universal since i played the games, but that's just me.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

So Mundus being At least 3-A via clarification from WoG is pretty much cemented at this rate, but what of Mundus being possibly Low 2-C via Hideki's statement that it is possible space-time could of been created within it?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

So Mundus being At least 3-A via clarification from WoG is pretty much cemented at this rate, but what of Mundus being possibly Low 2-C via Hideki's statement that it is possible space-time could of been created within it?

3-A. Not at least 3-A. 3-A is what we go with unless there is confirmed or strongly hinted space-time creation.

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

Can we just add 3-A rating to the character's that apply amd worry about the other stuff in a different thread or not?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

If the best feat of a Verse is Universe level, but there are no 4D chars or space-time feats from anyone else, and the guy who did the feat is not a Supreme Being, than it should be 3-A.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

3-A. Not at least 3-A. 3-A is what we go with unless there is confirmed or strongly hinted space-time creation.

I thought "At least" was only about how casually said character performs a feat, and given Mundus's case of being able to create a Universe with relative ease I thought that this would apply to him. There is also Hideki's statement which does not rule out the possibility of the universe being created with space-time

On a side note, should we make the agreed changes (3-A) for the scaling characters? Seeing as there is a lot of support from reputable users and etc

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I thought "At least" was only about how casually said character performs a feat, and given Mundus's case of being able to create a Universe with relative ease I thought that this would apply to him. There is also Hideki's statement which does not rule out the possibility of the universe being created with space-time

It doesn't matter how casually he did it. If he's not infinitely more powerful than he was when he performed the feat, he wouldn't be High 3-A, and the "At least 3-A" implies bare minimum, which is blatantly false.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

I understand your point. But should we add the upgrades seeing how many people support 3-A Mundus?

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

hmm it seems almost (if not all) agree to this ungrade

 

[Antvasima]

I lean towards agreeing with Azathoth. The creator of the game was clear about Mundus creating a universe, but not at all committed to that a space-time continuum was created.

Simply creating the matter of a universe is a 3-A feat, if it is done within an already present space-time structure. Creating a universal continuum from scratch is Low 2-C.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

I have no objections with 3-A Mundus,Dante and Sparda

 

[Antvasima]

The big question is whether we should count this as 3-A via hax, or as regular Attack Potency? If all Mundus was able to do to defend itself was to launch small meteorites at Dante, and the like, I am leaning towards the hax interpretation.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Creating a Universe should also grant you Universe level AP iirc.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Creating a Universe should also grant you Universe level AP iirc.

Depends on the scenario, iirc. For instance, base Frisk can create, reset, and erase timelines, but cannot translate this to direct AP.

Been way too long since I've played Devil May Cry, so I can't weigh in on which this is.

 

[Brunout]

The big question is whether we should count this as 3-A via hax, or as regular Attack Potency? If all Mundus was able to do to defend itself was to launch small meteorites at Dante, and the like, I am leaning towards the hax interpretation.

Well, he used some energy attacks, lightning, and a giant laser (at least when they were flying)

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Being able to create the matter within a universe should suggest you can destroy it and be able to withstand giving such energy out. Not sure what is meant by hax tbh, especially when in fiction Universal characters do not rely on the AOE of their attacks and etc.

 

[Antvasima]

Logically, yes, but it is not uncommon within fiction that such feats are unrelated to attack potency. For example Adam Warlock once merged two timelines, but is regularly displayed to be of far lower scale in terms of regular attack power,

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

Well after Mundus lost in his dimension it collapsed on both of them though Mundus managed to rip a hole in the fabric of both demon and human world to encounter Dante for the final time

 

[Antvasima]

Hmm. Maybe. It does seem very inconsistent with small lightning and lasers as attacks. What do the rest of you think?

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

Dante didn't take apparent damage from those strikes though it did knock him out of his sparda empowered DT form albeit eventually Sparda sword did save Dante as it damaged Mundus heavily during DMC 1

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Hmm. Maybe. It does seem very inconsistent with small lightning and lasers as attacks. What do the rest of you think?

Looking quickly through these responses, Mundus' actual attacks so seem far below his actual Universe creating feat. I think 3-A or Low 2-C (Whichever one we're using) via reality warping might be a good option, but I don't believe it would be able to scale to anyone but Mundus and it would likely be reality warping that wouldn't be combat applicable

 

[Brunout]

the laser




He also throw red

energy spears


Aside of that, he didn't show nothing more

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I also question what's the point and logic behind creating an entire universe as a battlefield.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Hmm. Maybe. It does seem very inconsistent with small lightning and lasers as attacks. What do the rest of you think?

Looking quickly through these responses, Mundus' actual attacks so seem far below his actual Universe creating feat. I think 3-A or Low 2-C (Whichever one we're using) via reality warping might be a good option, but I don't believe it would be able to scale to anyone but Mundus and it would likely be reality warping that wouldn't be combat applicable

Why should we judge the AP of a fighter through the AOE of their attacks? Isnt the purpose of AP this? "A character with a certain degree of attack potency need not necessarily cause destructive feats on that level, but can cause damage to characters that can withstand such forces."

You do know that there are many characters who have been able to perform feats of a high level yet their actual attacks never showcase any power of that magnitude? Also @Ant Mundus's AP is listed as planet already and is "possibly higher" due to us not knowing the extent of his powers (which we know now) so how would knowing it's universe change that it's AP now?

tldr: This which was in the thread that got Mundus planet level in the first place

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

should we also discuss their durability too?

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

should we also discuss their durability too?

If memory serves me right, the whole pocket dimension Mundus created wentcompletely blank after he lost, and after a good 3-4 seconds we see Dante back into the demon world again. I remember hearing that when something goes completely blank in fiction, it's to usually signify that the reality/general area was completely destroyed etc. And Mundus appeared to of tanked it as well as we later find out (Mundus making his way to the human world). I think surviving the destruction of his pocket dimension (of Universal size) would lead to Universe durability.

 

[Brunout]

should we also discuss their durability too?

well, after the dimension gone blank, mundus appears in the living world with parts of his body falling. before the dimension apparently fading away, his body was fine.