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Ever since Demonbane first introduced to Vs community and thanks to the English translation from JAST, there has been lots of things going around, which most of them are negative. Throughout years and years, Demonbane verse suffered many ridiculous wanks, downgrades and worse, misconceptions or straight-up lies from those who claimed to be “Demonbane fans” or have read the story, worse, taking the scans out of context and twisted the contents of them. Well, that’s will be the purpose for this thread. However, this is not actually a CRT, more like the opposite from it, i will explain it in details.
Warning: Spoiler alerts. If there’s anyone who haven’t read Kishin Hishou yet but have intention to read it, I suggest you to ignore this thread.
1) The problem with English translation
While the English translation for the first Visual Novel of Demonbane did quite a good job on translating the game, however, when i played the Japanese version i found out that many feats were altered and changed drastically, either trimmed it down or contexts that literally doesn’t exist in the original game. Especially those are important feats that i saw in various Demonbane threads. Here are the scans and comparison:
*Myth: “Demonbane’s punch is comparable to nuclear bomb”
-> Fact: There’s no such feat in the original game, narrator only stated that Demonbane and Liber Legis traded blows resulting impact and collision, nothing more.
*Myth: “Summoning the Shining Trapezohedron tore reality asunder”
-> Fact: Correct word here is “dimension (次元)”, not “reality”. When Demonbane and Liber Legis summoned Shining Trapezohedron in Strange Aeons chapter, it distorted and tore apart the dimension(s). This is further backed up way back in chapter 13, when Demonbane first summoned Shining Trapzohedron the dimension(s) also being distorted, although the English translation turned into space instead.
*Myth: “Clash between 2 Shining Trapezohedron slained hundred billion of worlds, with the birth and death of infinite universes”
-> Fact: The correct number is “hundred of millions” and nowhere in the original Japanese game said that infinite universes being born and died, just “universes” and that’s it, no specific number.
*Myth: “Etheldreda can grant the power beyond dimensions”
-> Fact: No dimensions here, correction is power beyond space-time (時空). Additionally when Al said in Leica route that if you are swallowed by Yog-Sothoth, you will be thrown into non-existant space-time, but the English translation changed the word into dimension.
- Some instances are that the word universe (宇宙 - Uchuu) is being translated into space. While in English space sometimes can be understood as universe but in Japanese space can be refered to 空間 (Kuukan), of course these two are totally nowhere near the same meaning. For example:
+ Liber Legis’s Cross of Sinner can tear up the universe, but got translated into space in the English translation.
+ In Ruri route, Master Therion’s wrath released miasma that can tore apart the universe, but English translation trimmed it down into rending the space.
- And some feats from the original Japanese game, didn’t make it in the English translation such as:
+ In Al Azif route, golden Demonbane using the “combined” Trapezohedron capable of using the very power of Creator (Azathoth) as well.
+ In Ruri route, Kurou buffed himself up to infinite magical power and repained the whole universe, but the English translation doesn’t have that kind of feat. Continue in true end of Ruri route, Demonbane and Liber Legis’s hissatsu tore apart the darkness of universe, as you expected, no “universe” in the English translation, just simply tear the darkness.
+ In Leica route, Liber Legis (piloted by Ryuuga) also tearing through the universe’s darkness by its hands, but the English translation sadly cut it down.
(There are also some minor errors like speed of sound is suddenly wanked into speed of light, but that is trivial matter so i will not include it here, these should be enough instead)
2) The misconceptions around Demonbane
First, I would love to talk about Cthulhu a little bit. So the Demonbane profiles using the scan from VFB and claimed Cthulhu’s power is universal. I’m sorry but… what? The word in that textbook is 万能, meaning “almighty power” or “omnipotent”. Okay, let say that you guys can use the word “universal power”, but here’s the thing, it doesn’t literally mean the power of Cthulhu is actually “universal”. Depending on the contexts, unless the VFB literally said Cthulhu can burst entire universe, otherwise, that “universal power” is just a flowery word. Heck, the kanji for that “universal power” doesn’t have any word means “the universe” either.
Secondly, Cthulhu’s power didn’t grow infinitely due to cancer, it was Nero who released all safety and thus making the dormant Cthulhu went unstable, she even made a forecast that it would take less than a day for the earth to be destroyed by Cthulhu’s cancer. This is look like planetary level to me, 3-B where?
Thirdly, when did Cthulhu fought EoS Demonbane? Cthulhu was in dormant state the entire time, if he’s awakened then everyone would end up in bad shit for sure. Furthermore, Augustus and Vespasianus controlling Cthulhu but only a mere fraction of it. Legacy of Gold when buffed by Cthulhu almost defeated Demonbane, so how is Demonbane could be same tier with Cthulhu?
And finally, the main topic of this thread: Elder God Demonbane.
Many people have assumed Elder God Demonbane is the most powerful being or whatever it is in Demonbane verse, of course, there are some hilarious memes and wanks came from it, even by those who haven’t even read Kishin Hishou beforehand. This is the most common misconception of Demonbane that stuck in the people mindset for many years. Real question is, why?
Because… There’s no such thing as Elder God Demonbane. Or should I say, Elder God Demonbane is a fan-fictional Demonbane made up by those who didn’t play Demonbane properly.
Okay, you guys might be confused right now, probably wondering “Wait what, Elder God Demonbane doesn’t exist?”, worry not, those questions will be answered right here:
In the Elder God’s ending, Father Ny directly called out both Kurou and Al are the newest Gods – the Elder Gods. Please notice that, he never said or refering Demonbane as one of the Elder Gods here. The two VFB of Demonbane also confirmed that only Kurou and Al are Elder Gods, no “Elder God Demonbane”. Besides, Nyarlathotep only treated Elder God Kurou & Al are his/her equally existence, never said anything about Demonbane being a God either.
Moving forward to Kishin Hishou, this have many crucial details about why “Elder God Demonbane” is actually just a myth.
In Kishin Hishou, one of the main theme that greatly explored is Trinity (三位一体). Trinity is an important element that consist of Magius, Grimoire and Deus Machina. Without even one of these three, your full potential can never be reached. That applied to Demonbane, a Demonbane without Master and Grimoire is just a fragile Deus Machina. For instance:
- Nightmare Therion easily defeated Two-Sword and viewing Kuzaku’s Demonbane nothing but worthless trash. One thing need to be considered is at that time, nightmare Therion didn’t even bother to summon Etheldreda yet, not until he faced off against nightmare Nero. Moreover, Master Therion admitted himself that without the Trinity he cannot compete with Demonbane (the one Kurou & Al pilot, that is).
- When Kuzaku tried to get his Two-Sword separated from Clockwork Phantom, he still lack of Trinity in order to get out of Nyar’s chaos. Once Kuzaku accepted Another Blood, both of them awakened as Elder Gods and Two-Sword finally became True Two-Sword. Only that, Two-Sword capable of fighting Clockwork Phantom head-on.
So how does Trinity related with the myth of “Elder God Demonbane”? Well, it took me a 2nd reading of Kishin Hishou, collecting all of the details and then wrap all of them together. Basically this is is how it went:
- In a flashback, Nya met Elder God Kurou again. She said that more than 400 millions of her avatars has been sublimated by the Elder Gods. At the end of the conversation, she mocked the Elder Gods duo that, how long can they keep up fighting without “the sword that smites evil”. That’s right, the Elder Gods have LOST their own Demonbane prior the story. Meaning, without Demonbane, the Elder Gods can not fight against Nya for a long time. This raised two questions: One, how did the Elder Gods lost their own Demonbane? And two, what about the Demonbane that appeared in Kishin Hishou?
+ Answer for question 1: The original Demonbane of Elder Gods have performed its last mission: Carried the infant Kuzaku into the human world, Elder God Al did say that “At the very least, please bring this child to the world of humans”, because they – the Elder Gods deemed that their own child can not live together with them, as they have chosen the path to fight against evil endlessly. The CG that you guys thought all this time to be “Elder God Demonbane”, is actually Demonbane taking baby Kuzaku into human world. For those who are dumbfounded when learning this fact, yes, you were wrong about Demonbane all the time. It’s crazy on how people keep using that image in vs debates but have zero clue about the story behind it.
Major spoilers for Two-Sword: This come a major twist. The Demonbane that carried Kuzaku into human world (the world that took place in the Elder God ending, NOT the world from Al’s happy end), is not the original Demonbane that everyone familiar with, but the Demonbane Two-Sword itself. Later in the story, it is revealed that Kuzaku’s Demonbane doesn’t exist in the first place, the only Demonbane that exists is the Demonbane that exist for the sake of Daiuuji Kurou and Al Azif. Two-Sword is actually one of the avatars of Nyarlathotep that acted as the vessel of Clockwork Phantom. Although no explanation on how did the original Demonbane became Two-Sword or how did Two-Sword replaced the original Demonbane, i have come up with some theories: Either the original Demonbane has been compromised by Nyar during its flight path, or Nyar snatched it away and replaced Demonbane with Two-Sword. Regardless, Demonbane still carried Kuzaku into the human world and after that the Demonbane of Elder Gods officially gone for good.
+ Answer for question 2: The Demonbane that appeared in Kishin Hishou was the result of Another Blood’s nightmarish world and Demonbane is no longer just a Deus Machina, but it is the will to destroy the evil and will answer the prayers when everyone needed most. Now, since the Elder Gods have lost their own Demonbane, where did they get the Demonbane to finish off Nyarlathotep in the final battle? That’s right, it IS the Demonbane that Kurou and Al pilotted in Kishin Hishou. The Elder Gods possessed Kurou and Al, summoned Shining Trapezohedron and with that as a base, call forth infinite Demonbanes from every worlds, every possibilities then used Lemuria Impact 000 (which DOES have infinite x infinite Big Bang, not featless like someone who claimed it to be) on Nyarlathotep. Simple as that. There’s no “Elder God Demonbane” here, it doesn’t exist, period. Oh, here’s another reminder: Nya confirmed it was the Elder Gods whom sealed Azathoth inside the Trapezohedron, anyone said that Elder Gods didn’t defeat the Outer Gods or somethin’ like that then I think they should need an IQ check.
At first i’m planning to use the Japanse scans from Demonbane’s Gaiden Novel too but then again it would prolong the post, and i don’t think they are needed here either, not for the purpose of this thread.
3) The result
Like i said before, this is not actually a CRT, more like the opposite from it. Judging on how the members of VBW haven’t read Kishin Hishou before and have only read the English translation of Zanma Taisei, here’s my suggestion:
Delete all the profiles of Demonbane verse as well as the whole page from existence. The whole page is outdated, misinformed and unreliable. Especially on how the Ennglish translation is no longer valid when we have the original Japanese here. Unless there is someone else who have enough knowledge, have read every works of Demonbane and interested in revamping the verse, otherwise, i suggest the admins just yeet it, just like Mondaiji page. In my opinion, it would be great if Demonbane got banned from VBW for good.
Ok, that’s all i want to say for now. Let see how the things goes I guess.
Warning: Spoiler alerts. If there’s anyone who haven’t read Kishin Hishou yet but have intention to read it, I suggest you to ignore this thread.
1) The problem with English translation
While the English translation for the first Visual Novel of Demonbane did quite a good job on translating the game, however, when i played the Japanese version i found out that many feats were altered and changed drastically, either trimmed it down or contexts that literally doesn’t exist in the original game. Especially those are important feats that i saw in various Demonbane threads. Here are the scans and comparison:
*Myth: “Demonbane’s punch is comparable to nuclear bomb”
-> Fact: There’s no such feat in the original game, narrator only stated that Demonbane and Liber Legis traded blows resulting impact and collision, nothing more.
*Myth: “Summoning the Shining Trapezohedron tore reality asunder”
-> Fact: Correct word here is “dimension (次元)”, not “reality”. When Demonbane and Liber Legis summoned Shining Trapezohedron in Strange Aeons chapter, it distorted and tore apart the dimension(s). This is further backed up way back in chapter 13, when Demonbane first summoned Shining Trapzohedron the dimension(s) also being distorted, although the English translation turned into space instead.
*Myth: “Clash between 2 Shining Trapezohedron slained hundred billion of worlds, with the birth and death of infinite universes”
-> Fact: The correct number is “hundred of millions” and nowhere in the original Japanese game said that infinite universes being born and died, just “universes” and that’s it, no specific number.
*Myth: “Etheldreda can grant the power beyond dimensions”
-> Fact: No dimensions here, correction is power beyond space-time (時空). Additionally when Al said in Leica route that if you are swallowed by Yog-Sothoth, you will be thrown into non-existant space-time, but the English translation changed the word into dimension.
- Some instances are that the word universe (宇宙 - Uchuu) is being translated into space. While in English space sometimes can be understood as universe but in Japanese space can be refered to 空間 (Kuukan), of course these two are totally nowhere near the same meaning. For example:
+ Liber Legis’s Cross of Sinner can tear up the universe, but got translated into space in the English translation.
+ In Ruri route, Master Therion’s wrath released miasma that can tore apart the universe, but English translation trimmed it down into rending the space.
- And some feats from the original Japanese game, didn’t make it in the English translation such as:
+ In Al Azif route, golden Demonbane using the “combined” Trapezohedron capable of using the very power of Creator (Azathoth) as well.
+ In Ruri route, Kurou buffed himself up to infinite magical power and repained the whole universe, but the English translation doesn’t have that kind of feat. Continue in true end of Ruri route, Demonbane and Liber Legis’s hissatsu tore apart the darkness of universe, as you expected, no “universe” in the English translation, just simply tear the darkness.
+ In Leica route, Liber Legis (piloted by Ryuuga) also tearing through the universe’s darkness by its hands, but the English translation sadly cut it down.
(There are also some minor errors like speed of sound is suddenly wanked into speed of light, but that is trivial matter so i will not include it here, these should be enough instead)
2) The misconceptions around Demonbane
First, I would love to talk about Cthulhu a little bit. So the Demonbane profiles using the scan from VFB and claimed Cthulhu’s power is universal. I’m sorry but… what? The word in that textbook is 万能, meaning “almighty power” or “omnipotent”. Okay, let say that you guys can use the word “universal power”, but here’s the thing, it doesn’t literally mean the power of Cthulhu is actually “universal”. Depending on the contexts, unless the VFB literally said Cthulhu can burst entire universe, otherwise, that “universal power” is just a flowery word. Heck, the kanji for that “universal power” doesn’t have any word means “the universe” either.
Secondly, Cthulhu’s power didn’t grow infinitely due to cancer, it was Nero who released all safety and thus making the dormant Cthulhu went unstable, she even made a forecast that it would take less than a day for the earth to be destroyed by Cthulhu’s cancer. This is look like planetary level to me, 3-B where?
Thirdly, when did Cthulhu fought EoS Demonbane? Cthulhu was in dormant state the entire time, if he’s awakened then everyone would end up in bad shit for sure. Furthermore, Augustus and Vespasianus controlling Cthulhu but only a mere fraction of it. Legacy of Gold when buffed by Cthulhu almost defeated Demonbane, so how is Demonbane could be same tier with Cthulhu?
And finally, the main topic of this thread: Elder God Demonbane.
Many people have assumed Elder God Demonbane is the most powerful being or whatever it is in Demonbane verse, of course, there are some hilarious memes and wanks came from it, even by those who haven’t even read Kishin Hishou beforehand. This is the most common misconception of Demonbane that stuck in the people mindset for many years. Real question is, why?
Because… There’s no such thing as Elder God Demonbane. Or should I say, Elder God Demonbane is a fan-fictional Demonbane made up by those who didn’t play Demonbane properly.
Okay, you guys might be confused right now, probably wondering “Wait what, Elder God Demonbane doesn’t exist?”, worry not, those questions will be answered right here:
In the Elder God’s ending, Father Ny directly called out both Kurou and Al are the newest Gods – the Elder Gods. Please notice that, he never said or refering Demonbane as one of the Elder Gods here. The two VFB of Demonbane also confirmed that only Kurou and Al are Elder Gods, no “Elder God Demonbane”. Besides, Nyarlathotep only treated Elder God Kurou & Al are his/her equally existence, never said anything about Demonbane being a God either.
Moving forward to Kishin Hishou, this have many crucial details about why “Elder God Demonbane” is actually just a myth.
In Kishin Hishou, one of the main theme that greatly explored is Trinity (三位一体). Trinity is an important element that consist of Magius, Grimoire and Deus Machina. Without even one of these three, your full potential can never be reached. That applied to Demonbane, a Demonbane without Master and Grimoire is just a fragile Deus Machina. For instance:
- Nightmare Therion easily defeated Two-Sword and viewing Kuzaku’s Demonbane nothing but worthless trash. One thing need to be considered is at that time, nightmare Therion didn’t even bother to summon Etheldreda yet, not until he faced off against nightmare Nero. Moreover, Master Therion admitted himself that without the Trinity he cannot compete with Demonbane (the one Kurou & Al pilot, that is).
- When Kuzaku tried to get his Two-Sword separated from Clockwork Phantom, he still lack of Trinity in order to get out of Nyar’s chaos. Once Kuzaku accepted Another Blood, both of them awakened as Elder Gods and Two-Sword finally became True Two-Sword. Only that, Two-Sword capable of fighting Clockwork Phantom head-on.
So how does Trinity related with the myth of “Elder God Demonbane”? Well, it took me a 2nd reading of Kishin Hishou, collecting all of the details and then wrap all of them together. Basically this is is how it went:
- In a flashback, Nya met Elder God Kurou again. She said that more than 400 millions of her avatars has been sublimated by the Elder Gods. At the end of the conversation, she mocked the Elder Gods duo that, how long can they keep up fighting without “the sword that smites evil”. That’s right, the Elder Gods have LOST their own Demonbane prior the story. Meaning, without Demonbane, the Elder Gods can not fight against Nya for a long time. This raised two questions: One, how did the Elder Gods lost their own Demonbane? And two, what about the Demonbane that appeared in Kishin Hishou?
+ Answer for question 1: The original Demonbane of Elder Gods have performed its last mission: Carried the infant Kuzaku into the human world, Elder God Al did say that “At the very least, please bring this child to the world of humans”, because they – the Elder Gods deemed that their own child can not live together with them, as they have chosen the path to fight against evil endlessly. The CG that you guys thought all this time to be “Elder God Demonbane”, is actually Demonbane taking baby Kuzaku into human world. For those who are dumbfounded when learning this fact, yes, you were wrong about Demonbane all the time. It’s crazy on how people keep using that image in vs debates but have zero clue about the story behind it.
Major spoilers for Two-Sword: This come a major twist. The Demonbane that carried Kuzaku into human world (the world that took place in the Elder God ending, NOT the world from Al’s happy end), is not the original Demonbane that everyone familiar with, but the Demonbane Two-Sword itself. Later in the story, it is revealed that Kuzaku’s Demonbane doesn’t exist in the first place, the only Demonbane that exists is the Demonbane that exist for the sake of Daiuuji Kurou and Al Azif. Two-Sword is actually one of the avatars of Nyarlathotep that acted as the vessel of Clockwork Phantom. Although no explanation on how did the original Demonbane became Two-Sword or how did Two-Sword replaced the original Demonbane, i have come up with some theories: Either the original Demonbane has been compromised by Nyar during its flight path, or Nyar snatched it away and replaced Demonbane with Two-Sword. Regardless, Demonbane still carried Kuzaku into the human world and after that the Demonbane of Elder Gods officially gone for good.
+ Answer for question 2: The Demonbane that appeared in Kishin Hishou was the result of Another Blood’s nightmarish world and Demonbane is no longer just a Deus Machina, but it is the will to destroy the evil and will answer the prayers when everyone needed most. Now, since the Elder Gods have lost their own Demonbane, where did they get the Demonbane to finish off Nyarlathotep in the final battle? That’s right, it IS the Demonbane that Kurou and Al pilotted in Kishin Hishou. The Elder Gods possessed Kurou and Al, summoned Shining Trapezohedron and with that as a base, call forth infinite Demonbanes from every worlds, every possibilities then used Lemuria Impact 000 (which DOES have infinite x infinite Big Bang, not featless like someone who claimed it to be) on Nyarlathotep. Simple as that. There’s no “Elder God Demonbane” here, it doesn’t exist, period. Oh, here’s another reminder: Nya confirmed it was the Elder Gods whom sealed Azathoth inside the Trapezohedron, anyone said that Elder Gods didn’t defeat the Outer Gods or somethin’ like that then I think they should need an IQ check.
At first i’m planning to use the Japanse scans from Demonbane’s Gaiden Novel too but then again it would prolong the post, and i don’t think they are needed here either, not for the purpose of this thread.
3) The result
Like i said before, this is not actually a CRT, more like the opposite from it. Judging on how the members of VBW haven’t read Kishin Hishou before and have only read the English translation of Zanma Taisei, here’s my suggestion:
Delete all the profiles of Demonbane verse as well as the whole page from existence. The whole page is outdated, misinformed and unreliable. Especially on how the Ennglish translation is no longer valid when we have the original Japanese here. Unless there is someone else who have enough knowledge, have read every works of Demonbane and interested in revamping the verse, otherwise, i suggest the admins just yeet it, just like Mondaiji page. In my opinion, it would be great if Demonbane got banned from VBW for good.
Ok, that’s all i want to say for now. Let see how the things goes I guess.
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