• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Demigra Regen?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Sounds like Mid-Godly.

Being able to regenerate from having his physical body destroyed, and then his essence (Ki, I'm assuming) which is the equivalent of a soul which is required by the mind as they're tethered to one another.

tl;dr, this would make Demigra Mid-Godly since he regenerated from his body, mind and soul were erased/destroyed by at least a 2-C Character.

Although it could just be hyperpotent resurrection that works even after all that happens.
 
Pretty sure his soul wasn't actually hit by that Kamehameha. This is likely Low Godly instead, with the possibility of Mid Godly.

Not to mention Towa's feat is also Low Godly, considering she's coming back via sheer Angryness
 
It's not Mid Godly. I also would need more information than what SSJRyu is saying. I like the dude and all, but he's not a reliable source without proof backing him up.
 
DMUA said:
Pretty sure his soul wasn't actually hit by that Kamehameha. This is likely Low Godly instead, with the possibility of Mid Godly.
Click to expand...
Not even Low Godly. High. At best. It could even be Mid-High if Buu is anything to go by. And it's not combat applicable given how incredibly long it takes for him to come back.
 
If they went back to destroy his essence (Ki Influence, basically) which is tethered to his mind, it's Mid-Godly. The thing that makes up his soul (Ki) would've been destroyed and so would his physical body.

It is DEFINITELY not just High. If they really did go back to make sure to destroy Demigra's essence, then that'd imply that merely destroying his body is not enough to make him stay down.

Plus, again, nothing says this is regen. It could be resurrection, a really strong resurrection.
 
Ki is fighting spirit, but I don't think it's necessarily something you have to destroy the mind to really get rid of.

Ki isn't directly your soul, considering it kinda deteriorates after the body is dying.
 
DMUA said:
Ki is fighting spirit, but I don't think it's necessarily something you have to destroy the mind to really get rid of.
Ki isn't directly your soul, considering it kinda deteriorates after the body is dying.
Click to expand...
The Ki is the manifestation and "Life Force" that a fighter has. It's made up of your physical strength (Gone when your physical body dies, but stays with you if you're allowed to by the otherworld judge) and the mind. Destroying both basically means you destroyed all their Ki, which is what's implied here.
 
But destroying the ki doesn't necessarily mean your Soul and Mind is completely gone, it just means... your ki is gone.
 
Its apparent that not having ki=death. Not existence erasure. When people's ki is fading, it's because they're about to die.
 
Actually, no.

Ki is tied to your mind as much as it is your body. Not having Ki means you literally don't have a mind. Consequently, having a mind means you have ki as you have the capacity to have fighting strength (Ki).

This is why people like Goku can still use Ki in the afterlife. Their mind is still there. If your mind is erased/is super killed, there will be no Ki.

"But destroying the ki doesn't necessarily mean your Soul and Mind is completely gone, it just means... your ki is gone."

If someone's Ki is gone (Life Force), their mind is gone.

The 3 aspects of Ki are:

  • Genki (Õàâµ░ù lit. "Vigor")
  • Yüki (Õïçµ░ù lit. "Courage")
  • Shōki (µ¡úµ░ù lit. "Mind")
If you lack ki, you lack a mind. If you lack a mind, you lack Ki. This is why the Androids use artificial Ki instead of normal Ki.
 
^^^^^^^ THIS.

Furthermore, the feat is simple. He died, body, resiudential energy and ki, and then regenerated back in Heroes. It is confirmed it was the same Demigra.

And it is compat applicable, he can come back whenever he chooses. In one instance, he came back a few years later, in the past 75 million years ago before he got sealed away, in one instance he was dominated by Goku: Xeno and it was confirmed he did die, but would come back when and what point in time he chooses.
 
I don't remember that being the case, i've always kinda presummed and thought having no KI means your dead. Thats pretty much the reason why, for example, Goku and co. thought Gohan was dead for half the Buu Saga because Gohan was knocked out with no sensible KI signature to track him with.
 
That is the case though. That is what Ki is based on

I don't like him, but Geekdom explained what Ki was based on (with sources) in a very old video, and he had help from herms.
 
It's not even Low-Godly. Being physically destroyed to a point where you are invisible is only being reduced to small particles without further proof.
 
Except we know that they destroyed all the residual Ki of Demigra. Even if lone particles were left, no ki means no soul or mind to inhabit a High-Regenerated body.

You seem to have ignored my post about how Ki and the Mind are intertwined, Matt. It doesnt even matter that he feat could feasibly be High, since his Ki (AKA mind) was also totally destroyed or else... well, a lobotomized Demigra body. Being able to regenerate from that is Mid-Godly.
 
Unless Bulma's ki is comparable to Goku at any point of his life beyond infancy, your mind has nothing to do with your ki.
 
"Unless Bulma's ki is comparable to Goku at any point of his life beyond infancy, your mind has nothing to do with your ki."

You do realize that intelligence =/= Mind strength right? Mental dexterity, Willpower, Inner Peace, etc. are all also aspects of the mind. So your equivalance isn't totally correct Cal. AND Bulma never even learned to utilize Ki so of course she's not even going to be able to fly even if she did have enormous amounts of Ki. Humans aren't naturally adept at Ki Manipulation like saiyans are (Like babies flying around by instinct. Looking at you Broly).

Also Bulma is SIGNIFICANTLY more physically frail.

Bullet Proof as a baby >>> Any normal human.

Also this is a Word of God that has no disapproving evidence as well as the fact that it makes sense since Goku when mastering Super Saiyan got stronger than Vegeta despite doing less physical training as he strengthened his mind.
 
Another issue here is why are you assuming KI is comprised of the mind itself rather than just the mental energy that comes from it? It's 2 totally different things.

Unless were going to say for example chakra in Naruto is comprised of the literal body, soul, and mind for being a mixture of physical, spiritual, and mental energies?
 
Kukui's right. Literally nothing else that's similar to ki gets treated that way. It's not their Digicore or anything (and even that required its own blog to get accepted).
 
"Another issue here is why are you assuming KI is comprised of the mind itself rather than just the mental energy that comes from it? It's 2 totally different things. "

Where did you figure that the mind generates an energy?

Ki is based off of the Japanese/Chinese concept of... Chi. Again, it's directly tied to your mind and not "the Energy of the Mind".

ALSO. You do know they are the same thing right?

If you don't generate mental energy, that implies your mind is not operating properly to generate said energy. If you ARE generating mental energy, that means your mind is fully operational. Mathematical correlation thing.

If X + Y = Z, then all the components of Z must be true (Operational/Working). If a part of Z is gone, then Z is untrue so there's no Ki. As they explicitly said they destroyed all residual Ki of demigra, that'd make Z untrue and therefore both X and Y would be untrue.

E (Mental Energy) = X (The Mind). As the existence of one confirms the existence of the other, they both have to exist as Mental Energy would be the byproduct of the Mind, and the Mind is the direct producer of Mental Energy.

"Unless were going to say for example chakra is comprised of the literal body, soul, and mind for being a mixture of physical, spiritual, and mental energies?"

Chakra is a physical thing that came from a big alien soul tree. There's even a mapped out Chakra System! We know the origins of it. xD

"Kukui's right. Literally nothing else that's similar to ki gets treated that way. It's not their Digicore or anything (and even that required its own blog to get accepted)."

1. Ignoring author intent

2. Nothing is similar to Ki in the fact that we know what makes up it's components as well as being heavily implied in the verse itself (The Goku vs Vegeta example)

3. You have yet to provide any alternative reasoning nor rebuttals yet. I'm being honest, literally all you're saying is "We don't treat this the same as other things, so this thing can't be true" even though we have author statements, heavily implications, as well as false equivalence with other verses since I have yet to find another verse that uses the concept of Chi (Not Ki) that is also powerful enough to face complete mind destruction.
 
"Where did you figure that the mind generates an energy?"

Psychic energy? As in from the mind? What energy do you think psychics manipulate because it certainly isn't anything from anywhere other than from the mind (my bad if this sounded rude).

Tied to the mind =/= the mind itself, destroying someones KI doesn't suddenly destroy their mind. You can destroy flowing water but that doesn't mean the pipe it comes from is suddenly gone too. Your only destroying whats flowing, not the source it's comming from. Flow = KI and source = the mind.

"Chakra is a physical thing that came from a big alien soul tree. There's even a mapped out Chakra System! We know the origins of it XD".

First, when was the Shinju Tree soul based? Second, it doesn't matter where the chakra comes from, what matters is how it's used in the verse it comes from. Chakra is comprised of the users physical energy and their spiritual energy (which also includes their mental energy, the minds consciousness). If any of what your saying is true, your admitting chakra is comprised of the persons own literal body, their own literal mind, and their literal own soul instead of just what comes from the 3.
 
"Tied to the mind =/= the mind itself"

Except it isn't tied. It's MADE from the mind.

Another example is if an Oil field stops yielding oil.

Since the production of Oil at the Oil draining facility means there's the existence of Oil, the lack of Oil being produced means there's no more oil in that particular area.

Oil being Produced = Oil's presence in the ground.

If Oil isn't being produced when you use machines to drain it, that means there's no oil where you drained.

This is the same thing. The production of psychic energy from the mind confirms the existence of it. If the Mind STOPS generating Psychic energy, that implies either A) Something is wrong with it or B) There's no mind. Unless Chronoa sealed Demigra's mind away or something, A is unlikely to be true. Catch my drift?

"You can destroy flowing water but that doesn't mean the pipe it comes from is suddenly gone too."

Maybe that's because the pipe and flowing water aren't tied together? The lack of existence of one doesn't affect the existence of the other like how a Oil Draining factory (I literally cannot remember the name of those things right now. Derp).

"Your only destroying whats flowing, not the source it's comming from. Flow = KI and source = the mind."

If you destroyed what's flowing, this goes back to above. Either A) Something is wrong with the Mind as to stop producing flowing energy or B) there is no more mind.

Unless Chronoa sealed away the areas that allows the flow of Psychic energy or something to that effect, B is the most likely suspect.

The Flow of the energy is directly tied to the existence of the source. As we can eliminate any problems with the mind's "Pipes" (The line that allows the flow) due to any lack of mention from it, we can assume there's simply no more mind. The production facility was hit by a nuclear bomb and it doesn't exist. No more water for your house sort of deal.

"Also, Author Intent kind of means nothing and im sure I don't have to explain why as its been explained many times here."

Oh. That's very unfortunate. Well, as I explained before, I fundementally disagree with that philosophy as this medium is the Author's creation and at their discretion, not ours, but okay. I still hold onto the opinion that Author Intent holds SOME form of weight in decisions as they're the single highest canon above all others (Unless they sold off their IP of course).
 
For clarification, since it was my video being referenced. Demigra is destroyed completely. First we see his body wiped out, and then even his dark energy destroyed, then the crak in time is destroyed on top of him. After Demigra is not shown present in Hell even though they visit hell several times, and he logically would just leave or effect things from hell if there, and it is stated after the whole leftover energy making wormholes and controlling people thing post boss battle that his energy has disappeared completely. So no question he is gone body and soul.

Now he comes back several times in heroes, sometimes one arc after the other (UMX, DBH god mission, current Demigra arc), at any timeline and point in time he wants, so it is clear he recovers from his "death" quickly as he pleases.

One interesting thing that may shed light on this which iirc I mentioned in the video is Towa, whom he has the powers of for several reasons, is stated to revive out of just hatred, possibly implying as long as hatred exists they can "revive" indefinitely. Would explain them coming back after every trace of them is gone over and over.

I mean I could get into more detail, but thats the basics, most of the scans etc are in my video, along with tons of other powers, I got stuff to do tomorrow so I gotta catch some zzz's, but perhaps at a later time I will make a more detailed explanation of Demigra's powers.
 
So! Do we have better rebuttals other than

"We don't treat other verses the same" (Even though there's no other presidence for such a thing, so I don't see the equivalence), "The Mind and Ki are not connected" (They are. Feel free to disagree, but I like to think my X+Y=Z explanation was pretty good), and "Bulma doesn't have large amounts of Ki even though she's more intelligent than anyone else" (Intelligence =/= Mental Strength)
 
"Except it isn't tied. It's MADE from the mind."

That still doesnt mean it's literally the mind itself. Fire can be made from starter fluid, doesnt mean the fire IS starter fluid. Steam comes from boiling water, doesn't mean it IS boiling water. This is no different. Being made from something =/= you are that something automatically. Also, your backtracking. You yourself said KI was tethered to the mind above. That would be it being tied to the mind, and tied to something =/= literally being it.

"Another example is if an Oil field stops yielding oil."

False equivalncy. In this example, Oil = Oil obviously and no one is saying otherwise, but that doesn't mean the oil field itself is suddenly pure oil, it's just a place for the oil to be held, flowed, or produced. Like how in a shower, the shower head releases water when turned on. No one is saying the water coming from the shower isn't the same as where the water originates from as water is water. But what we are saying is that the shower head itself is just a device for water to flow and come out from. It's not pure water and even thinking that is ridiculous.

The shower head is the mind and the water is the KI.

"Unless Chrona sealed Demigra's mind away or something."

Actually, stop there. What implies that this didn't happen at all? Because destroying the source would clearly destroy what's coming from it. It doesn't work like that the other away around, unless your seriously suggesting DB characters take parts of their literal mind and blast it at opponents in battle, which is absurd.

"Maybe because the pipe and flowing water aren't tied together?"

So now again your admitting KI and the mind aren't tied together? Otherwise, you wouldn't have said this.

"If you've destroyed whats flowing, this goes back to above. Either A) Something is wrong with the Mind as to stop producing flowing energy or B) there is no more mind."

Then refer back to my question about Chrona. Even then, this still isn't true, at all. Just because you destroy the water coming out of the pipe doesn't mean the pipe itself is effected. It'll just release more water. You'd have to destroy or remove the source for nothing else to flow or it's pointless. As in this case, having your KI destroyed doesnt mean your mind is suddenly effected.
 
"The shower head is the mind and the water is the KI. "

I'm not gonna quote all of that since it's going to make a MASSIVE wall of text.

You seem to be under the impression that Psychic energy is COMPLETELY separate from the Mind. All your examples has stuff like a shower head and water, which has NO relation whatsoever. Psychic Energy is produced from the Mind. The Mind is the production factory. The Psychic Energy is the product. The Mind makes the Product. If there is no product, then there's a problem with the factory or there is no factory to MAKE the product.

A Showerhead doesn't PRODUCE water. That's where your examples fail.

You say that psychic energy = Mind is ridiculous, but what's more ridiculous is apparently the fact that you think Psychic Energy has NOTHING in relation with the pipe. Psychic energy isn't it's own thing dude. The word psychic itself at least implies a connection to the mind or soul, not "The Mind is totally different from it and works like merely a pipe". Psychic energy needs a production facility, and the Mind is that facility.

"Actually, stop there. What implies that this didn't happen at all? Because destroying the source would clearly destroy what's coming from it"

The fact that they said they destroyed the residual Ki that Demigra left? If there was Residual Ki, Demigra would just come back like he did before. His Ki is "Infectious" that way.

"It doesn't work like that the other away around, unless your seriously suggesting DB characters take parts of their literal mind and blast it at opponents in battle, which is absurd."

Dude. Blood manipulation users use their own blood as bullets and forms weapons with them all the time. Ultraman, the Japanese Hero, uses the Specium Beam as his finishing attack. His blood is also Specium Energy. He's using his own blood as an attack.

Why is the mind any different? It's only an aspect of Ki and isn't 100% Mind power. What you find absurd has no bearing on what's the author's intent. Author Intent > Your intent. What he wanted was the Mind is an aspect of Ki, not a totally unrelated energy that is produced somewhere else.

Again, correlation. The Mind produces Psychic Energy (Which is also a term that is connected to the mind or soul so it's not the relationship of water and a pipe like you're implying), the lack of Psychic Energy implies the Mind has a problem or it's gone. The lack of a mind means a lack of Psychic energy.

If a production facility isn't producing what it should, then there's a correlation.

"So now again your admitting KI and the mind aren't tied together? Otherwise, you wouldn't have said this. "

You misinterpreted me. Again. I was using your example. The Pipe and water are NOT tied together in your example, which is why I said it's a flawed example. Psychic Energy and the Mind has the relationship of Production Facility and Product, not Pipe and Water.

"Then refer back to my question about Chrona. Even then, this still isn't true, at all. Just because you destroy the water coming out of the pipe doesn't mean the pipe itself is effected. It'll just release more water. You'd have to destroy or remove the source for nothing else to flow or it's pointless. As in this case, having your KI destroyed doesnt mean your mind is suddenly effected. "

I already answered the Chronoa thing.

You're not even trying to humour my examples are you? My examples differ in the fact that it's a Source - Product relationship. A direct producer. Your examples are Transport - Product. The lack of one thing doesn't mean the other doesn't exist, which is what I disagree with. So your entire second half of paragraph, I can't even reply to because it never addressed my examples or logic at all.

Edit: I ended up making a wall of text anyways. Great! ;D
 
I'll say that I intended to do a in depth post on Demigra in the future anyway, and this topic will be covered with scans and further specifics clarifying the nature of his ressurection and regen abilities. So if what is in the video is sufficient then knock yourself out in adding the skills, otherwise eventually I will be doing a full blog on Demigra's powers and this topic will be included.

PS. The fact not even the kai of time can sense his ki anywhere after the ordeals means he is not simply a soul in hell, since a soul or beings in hell still have ki, so if his ki is completly gone then that means his soul is. Yet despite this kai of time feels he and towa could revive at any time and they have to watch out for him, which both prove to be true shortly after in teh next arc, and the next etc.
 
Apparently Towa is still alive in Xenoverse 2. Goku even use instant transmission to teleport to her to give her a bikini gift.


Ki definitely is effective to the mind body and soul.


Jiren lost a lot of power and characters gain random powerup simply through a state of mind.


Toppo can be a God. LSSj Kale can match ssjb Goku.

Characters can become weak and strong. All according to mentality and spirit.
 
InfiniteBlack123 said:
Apparently Towa is still alive in Xenoverse 2. Goku even use instant transmission to teleport to her to give her a bikini gift.

Ki definitely is effective to the mind body and soul.


Jiren lost a lot of power and characters gain random powerup simply through a state of mind.


Toppo can be a God. LSSj Kale can match ssjb Goku.

Characters can become weak and strong. All according to mentality and spirit.
Click to expand...
Don't forget that in DBS, Krillin got a huge power boost from just getting over his PTSD and while he was depressed / getting overwhelmed by his PTSD, he could even be harmed by bullets, that's just another evidence of how much your state of mind influence your power in DB
 
Don't forget that in DBS, Krillin got a huge power boost from just getting over his PTSD and while he was depressed / getting overwhelmed by his PTSD, he could even be harmed by bullets, that's just another evidence of how much your state of mind influence your power in DB


Look at Roshi, and his explanation in the early chapters of Dragon Ball where he specifically said power come from within the spirit. Denying this is like denying a fundamental part of a verses structure.
 
The only thing i can find saying Ki is tied to the mind is this. Though i think somewhere in OG DBZ there is a scan, but i have to find it.
Ki-explained
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

StrymULTRA
Fixing the inconsistencies of Dragon Ball Games
Replies
20
Views
1K
StrymULTRA
StrymULTRA
StrymULTRA
  • Locked
Dragon Ball Heroes/Xenoverse - Profile Split
2
Replies
66
Views
5K
StrymULTRA
StrymULTRA
ChoursDropoff
  • Locked
Zamasu regen upgrade proposal.
2 3
Replies
101
Views
6K
Duedate8898
Duedate8898
KingTempest
  • Locked
Dragon Ball Z: Planet Vegeta Destruction Potential Downgrade
2
Replies
50
Views
3K
KingTempest
KingTempest
Hypertornado099
Dragon Ball Z anime - Aura additions
Replies
18
Views
2K
AwkguyDB
AwkguyDB
Back
Top