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DeltaRune Discussion thread 2

Side note, I never fully understood why people claim that Deltarune's "not everyone can be pacified without violence" moral is anything new. Anyone remember Flowey? How we totally didn't have to beat him into submission? Or Asgore in the neutral route? Or Undyne? Because making someone pass out even through indirect mean isn't a "non-violent" way of doing things. Also, hitting your opponent until they were sparable was also an acceptable thing in UT.

Point is, forcing an opponent into submission without killing them was a thing in UT too. If we were FORCED to kill the King it might have been different, but for now, it's not much more different than Flowey.
 
@Follow Doctor Freeman

As Saikou said, it definitely seems intentional for you to be able to play this Demon without ruining anything upon the game's initial release, so it should be fine.

It's kinda like if you played UT's original Demon. The only really "major" spoiler is that Flowey is an asshole, which you learn about 30 seconds in, anyway.
 
Anyone know if there's a way to make your soul faster? I'm playing the Demon and fighting jevil rn and it seems too slow to outrin the circle spades.
 
The answer to this question is a big fat "gid gud".

I know there was a glich to make the entire game faster, but that won't help. So, no. You aren't really supposed to "outspeed" them anyway. Just put yourself in a corner and aimdodge them to hell and back.
 
I don't recall any.

It should be fast enough. It might just seem slow because you usually have to already be moving/start moving in a certain direction pretty much as soon as you're able to during the attack, and if you get caught off guard it can be a bit hard to recover since you're already in the shit.
 
Also, I found beating the shit out of Jevil to be a lot easier than pacifying him (first try with healing items to spare vs a few tries with a very close call), but that may just be me, as I've heard people who feel the opposite.

Of course, three of those tries were because I just restarted the fight due to him becoming tired but Ralsei being dead and me being out of healing items (which were constantly used on Ralsei, anyway).
 
Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
Also, I found beating the shit out of Jevil to be a lot easier than pacifying him (first try with healing items to spare vs a few tries with a very close call), but that may just be me, as I've heard people who feel the opposite.
Of course, three of those tries were because I just restarted the fight due to him becoming tired but Ralsei being dead and me being out of healing items (which were constantly used on Ralsei, anyway).
Click to expand...
I tried fighting him and I legit couldn't do it, I needed that ATK reduction from the pacifying him.
 
Wokistan said:
Anyone know if there's a way to make your soul faster? I'm playing the Demon and fighting jevil rn and it seems too slow to outrin the circle spades.
Click to expand...
As mentioned above, there's a speed up glitch. It happens when playing in fullscreen with a monitor with a refresh rate of 60 hz or greater. Said glitch is of course, banned in most Deltarune speedrunning categories.

There's some info about it here: https://www.speedrun.com/deltarune/thread/h7jub

You may wish to check if you're experiencing that glitch. If you are, don't play in full screen. If you aren't experiencing it... well, good luck!
 
Kris's spinning thing has an actual rotation of effects, its not random. I memorized the order and used that whenever it was something like nerfing Jevil or healing the party, otherwise just attacked with him and Susie while defending and healing with ralsei. I just needed to be less tired irl I think, beat him first try today.
 
1 is nothing, 2 is less defense for jevil, 3 is less I-frames on jevil's next attack, 4 is party defense up, 5 is nothing, 6 is a random person gets healed, 7 is everyone's HP bars get swapped, 8 is jevil AP up, and 9 is 30hp heal to the entire party. Repeats from there, just keep track of what you're on and only do it on 2, 4, 6, and 9. 7 ****** me over when it gave Suzie a HP cap of 70 when I was trying to kill jevil, but if you're going the hypnosis route 7 may worth it to help ralsei out.
 
So, what tiers can we mark these characters if they actually add profiles? Personally, I think its either Street, Wall, or Unknown.
 
I've done a couple of calculations that place them at Wall level; although since the game is only a Demon and might not be completed we're not making profiles.
 
I'm stil disappointed Toriel's offscreen Rudolph tells us of isn't calculated. Probably Wall Level, though....

Also, for feats, there is the argument about the Fountain of Darkness, but that assumes Darkness shares some physical properties -I don't remember which exactly & how- with water.
 
Question, should Ralsei have Regenerationn from disappearing when he's defeated, but when he comes from having enough health he recovers his body?
Ralsei's fuckin ded bubt not really(┬┐)
 
Seeing such a time difference between the last posts and the new ones gets isn't a good feeling.
 
Chrisras said:
Question, should Ralsei have Regenerationn from disappearing when he's defeated, but when he comes from having enough health he recovers his body?
Ralsei's fuckin ded bubt not really(┬┐)
Click to expand...
If so, I'd think we have to assume a bare minimum. Manual might imply he's darkness, but we can't assume that.

So what are the bare minimum assumptions that can be made about his state in the first image?
 
His clothes are the only thing there, there's no sign of his body left and it only comes back when he has enough health.

Either teleport or Regenerationn, and only one of those abilties is related to being damaged enough in combat.
 
Well, if I had to assume, looking at the Regenerationn page.... It's at least

High-Mid: The ability to regenerate from being blown / cut to pieces, or from a small piece of your body, such as your severed head, a single organ, or a finger.

However, I don't think that we don't know what he's coming back from. We don't know if there's a tiny pool of Ralsei under the clothes, be it darkness, blood, scattered pieces of flesh, or whatever else. For all we know, Ralsei's like a vampire & turns into mist & flies away.

Or maybe he does actually teleoport elsewhere when he goes down, to recover? The cut manual says he gives thanks to the dark fountain that gives him form. It might not be the most plausible idea for him to teleport to the Dark Fountain when he's at 0 HP or lower, but we DON'T KNOW what's happening.

Either way, as others have mentioned, Delta Rune is still a Demon of chapter 1; A Demon of an incomplete game. AFAIK, it'd be against our policy to make profiles for the characters officially just yet.

Sorry about me being kind of a naysayer.
 
The thing is that I think is better to keep a record of stuff that's important for the profiles instead of waiting years for a comfirmation that might just reaffirm what we already assumed, so I don't see why this should wait.

As I said, the kid coming back when he has even 1 HP from being a pile of clothes is more than enough justification to say that is in fact based in some form of Regenerationn, due to being HP related, so if we were to take the Regenerationn level that you proposed I would add to his profile for now "Possibly Regenerationn (High-Mid), when he's defeated, his body is shown to disappear, only leaving his clothes, but is unknown if his body truly disappeared."
 
On the basis of HP? I feel I can understand where you're coming from: In UT, the game mechanics are part of the canon.

But Delta Rune is explicitly not the same world as Undertale, if I recall Toby Fox's words correctly. There's little sign of Determination, a different battle system, among other differences.

AFAIK, we can't freely say Deltarune's game mechanics are part of its canon on the grounds that the same is the casis for Undertale; They're two different universes, but with similar casts.

With most other series, I'd think we'd say coming back to life entirely at 1 HP compared to 0 HP is just game mechanics.

Your wording is good, but keep it in mind, we can't really put that on a profile, as we can't make a profile yet. You're welcome to make blog profiles -which are unofficial- as others have done, however.

I welcome the interest, but a lot of our material for Deltarune is based on unconfirmed assumptions about a Demon of the 1st chapter of a game years away from release & officially not in the same world/universe as Undertale. The work is incomplete & subject to change.

Sorry if I'm being unpleasant.
 
Deltarune's HP is confirmed to be the same as Underlate's thanks to the line Ralsei says at the start of the game in the tutorial, so that's there.

I guess it should be fine keeping it in a blog for now, yes.
 
His dialogue matching with Flowey's doesn't really support much. For all we know, half of it is just references to Undertale. I won't deny there's definitely basis for some greater plot, but little is confirmed.

If we're gonna talk HP, Undertale didn't have Negative HP Values. It's also questionable if we're even dealing with the same kind of creatures here.

Susie appears to get at least unconscious at negative HP. (Kneeling, weapon still in hand.) Ralsei disappears.

In Undertale, monsters are made of magic, & turn to dust when defeated/killed. They aren't given form by darkness. And if Susie is a monster, and she IS getting defeated when brought to 0 HP then she sure doesn't look like she's getting dusted. Ralsei being dust or darkness under the clothes seems ambiguous, IMHO.

Besides that, monsters turning to dust don't seem like things with a capacity for negative HP values.

Deltarune also has TP. Tension Points.

And if you want to use the SOUL as the basis for the argument, Undertale had us playing as Frisk. Frisk's own SOUL was what we controlled, as the player, but Delta Rune has us control Kris, who seems opposed to the SOUL's involvement, suggesting it isn't even his; He can rip it out & throw it into a cage. (Suggesting tangibility, for one.)

Heck, Frisk's SOUL breaks apart at 0 HP. Kris hitting 0 HP, the SOUL is just fine so long as another party member is.

The systems seem dissimilar, & I wouldn't readily assume they're alike in certain ways, sorry to say. Heck, even the overworld menu -which is like that of Undertale's- is different from the menu used in the Dark World. We can't assume it's the same in an AU.


Would anyone else be willing to give their stance here?
 
I just think giving Ralsei high mid based on this is a bit too iffy.
 
@Andytrenom: I don't entirely disagree, but what Regenerationn would you say it would be, if you have any stance?

Or is it that there's just a lot of ambiguities & assumptions involved in Deltarune stuff as is?
 
@Andytrenom: Because the means are too vague &/or what Psychomaster35 said? (I do appreciate your answers, though.)
 
Because it's vague

>I appreciate your answers though

You don't, no one in this world does
 
Again, I do appreciate your answers, & also, I understand you're trying to have fun, & I am amused, but seriously: Yes I do. Don't tell me how I feel.

That's kind of a peeve for me, when people tell me how I feel. Stuff like "You don't want to know" & such.

But anyway, shame about the lack of info on Deltarune, & the lack of feats above Wall Level.
 
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