Death Manip CRT: No, killing people by itself isn't death manip

[Bobsican]

Continued from here

So, a rising concern has risen on how the Death Manip page doesn't have proper criteria to qualify beyond inducing death, and I don't need to explain that damaging people normally (punching, stabbing, drowning, etc), don't count, so I'd propose for the power to require that the method involved for it is supernatural and directly related to death (to similarly avoid people arguing for death manip by summoning electricity).

 

[ImmortalDread]

I mean killing people could qualify if they were inducing death..

 

[Reiner04]

Biological death manp is a thing, stopping vital biological process directly which leads to instant death is a thing.

 

[Bobsican]

TBH that's a gray area, in any case the page really could use more specific criteria.

 

[Reiner04]

TBH that's a gray area, in any case the page really could use more specific criteria.

Agree.

 

[theultimate5105]

Biological death manp is a thing, stopping vital biological process directly which leads to instant death is a thing.

Biological death Inducement should fall under Biological Manipulation and not Death Hax
As you are directly manipulating their biology to kill them their is no reason that Resistence to some ability which just kills would resist it

 

[Reiner04]

Biological death Inducement should fall under Biological Manipulation and not Death Hax
As you are directly manipulating their biology to kill them their is no reason that Resistence to some ability which just kills would resist it

No, not necessarily, biological Manipulation is just a super set for all kinds of biological Manipulation but that doesn't mean all kind of biological haxes should only fall under it (they can but still can have their own separate criteria which is death manp related), A death Manipulation by very definition takes things into account which Induces instant death, rather physically, mentally, emotionally or non physically.

Or else, destroying soul would be soul manp, no? Destroying concept of being will be concept manp, no? That's how it is.

 

[Fixxed]

Yeah death manip is mean manipulate the death or the abtraction thing it self. They must directly manipulate the death, indirectly thing that causing death will not count by default

 

[Sniper670]

Death hax via biology manipulation will be indexed as biology manipulation. Same as through a curse, or absorbing life force.

Death via another p&a(soul removal, biology hax, madness hax, life force hax etc) should be instantly disqualified and be indexed as under said powers

I think death hax, as fixxed mentioned, should be direct. An example will be Yogiri from Instant Death. Inexplicable but direct death. You just die with no reason behind it.

Actually, that's how I thought death hax was when I joined the wiki.

 

[Reiner04]

Death hax via biology manipulation will be indexed as biology manipulation. Same as through a curse, or absorbing life force.

Death via another p&a(soul removal, biology hax, madness hax, life force hax etc) should be instantly disqualified and be indexed as under said powers

We currently accept all of them as death manp if instant.

 

[Sniper670]

Why dont y'all take site wide revisions to Staff forum by default?

 

[KLOL506]

NGL Sniper's got a point.

 

[Reiner04]

Then the question arises what do we mean by death manp? Concept of death? Abstract death? That'll fall under conceptual manipulation if even the case.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Iirc before the forum move happened i remember a very extensive discussion about this but i could never find it. It wasn't implemented because it was like literally moments before the forum move.

I vaguely remember it involving DT.

It was something about breaking death manipulation into different types since it can be done in a variety of different ways with different powers

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Agreed.

 

[Reiner04]

I mean fiction does have things like "direct death" or things related to it despite the cause. So...Mmmm dunno, removing it shouldn't be the case imo.

 

[Dust_Collector]

Death hax via biology manipulation will be indexed as biology manipulation. Same as through a curse, or absorbing life force.

Death via another p&a(soul removal, biology hax, madness hax, life force hax etc) should be instantly disqualified and be indexed as under said powers

I think death hax, as fixxed mentioned, should be direct. An example will be Yogiri from Instant Death. Inexplicable but direct death. You just die with no reason behind it.

Actually, that's how I thought death hax was when I joined the wiki.

Mostly agree with this except for the point of indexing death via a curse as just curse manipulation. A curse itself isn't really an ability it's basically just another form of magic that gives you other abilities (I'd be like removing abilities from a magic user and just listing it all as magic and nothing else). If done via a curse than it should be both curse and death manipulation so long as it's actually direct death with no reason behind it, obviously if the death curse in question kills by, I dunno, thinning the targets blood or something than it'd be blood manipulation instead of death manipulation.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Death manipulation is just using an instant death spell and not explanation for how someone dies other than "It just kills them". Avada Kedavra curse, Death Notes, and pretty much any JRPG spell called "Death" that just deals instant death are all good examples of death manipulation is. But yeah, a lot of attacks advertised as instant death attacks will not qualify by default.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Anyway, OP do you have any draft, or you are requesting from us to create one?

 

[Bobsican]

The latter really.

 

[KLOL506]

Continued from here

So, a rising concern has risen on how the Death Manip page doesn't have proper criteria to qualify beyond inducing death, and I don't need to explain that damaging people normally (punching, stabbing, drowning, etc), don't count,

Damn, people actually give Death Manip for mundane shit like this?

so I'd propose for the power to require that the method involved for it is supernatural and directly related to death

Seems fine in practice.

(to similarly avoid people arguing for death manip by summoning electricity).

LMAO, I for one have yet to encounter someone who actually argued summoning electricity as being a feat for Death Manip. But yeah, the proposals look good at a glance.

 

[KLOL506]

The latter really.

I think we could just add upon the Death Manip page itself. I can ask a few peeps to help out if you like.

@Theglassman12 @Planck69 Would you be able to help out on this? You two are the smartest dudes with regards to stuff like this.

 

[Planck69]

We should probably just rewrite it to fit what seems to be agreed upon in this thread. Here's my draft of it, you can edit it to fit better.

Death Manipulation is the ability to directly induce death in beings, objects or even concepts via supernatural means. This can manifest as the inexplicable death of an individual, the direct cessation of biological functions, dispersal of life force and more, being able to affect anything from plant and animal life to even abstract forces and concepts.

It is important to note that just causing death via other abilities or indirect means (such as soul destruction, physical damage, deconstruction etc.) in itself does not qualify for Death Manipulation unless it is specified or portrayed to be a direct inducement of death in its targets with these being aftereffects of that.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Meh, I think I got a better one, hold up, I will create sandbox

 

[Planck69]

A two paragraph description doesn't need a sandbox but honestly eh, go off.

 

[Abstractly_a_Protagonist]

An example will be Yogiri from Instant Death. Inexplicable but direct death. You just die with no reason behind it.

Agree to add Yogiri to Death Manipulation users.

 

[ImmortalDread]

k..?

 

[ImmortalDread]

Agree to add Yogiri to Death Manipulation users.

Done. I am talking to bob privately to review the sandbox. I don't think anyone will oppose to this, since the verse is actually the definition of death manipulation.

 

[Abstractly_a_Protagonist]

I don't think anyone will oppose to this, since the verse is actually the definition of death manipulation.

I was only making a witty remark. But if no one opposes the idea, I'm grateful for it.

 

[ImmortalDread]

ImmortalDread/deathhax

vsbattles.fandom.com

Done, discussed with @Bobsican privately, and it seems fine

 

[Planck69]

ImmortalDread/deathhax

vsbattles.fandom.com

Done, discussed with @Bobsican privately, and it seems fine

I do hope you realize that a private discussion with a non-staff doesn't in itself resolve a revision.

I'll call others to check it out.

@Theglassman12 @DarkDragonMedeus @Elizhaa @Celestial_Pegasus @LordGriffin1000

 

[Theglassman12]

That page looks disorganized as **** with the different paragraphs, some of them need to be merged.

 

[KLOL506]

Not to sound rude but I like Planck's cleaner and shorter description more. The idea is to not make everything too bloated.

 

[Theglassman12]

Yeah I prefer Planck’s version, it gets to the point with what qualifies and what doesn’t.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

I'm not the best when it comes to evaluating what looks "good" but I'm fine with Plank's version.

 

[Reiner04]

Plancks one is alright.

 

[Planck69]

Seeing as this affects a major power on the wiki, I'm moving it to Staff Discussion. Bobsican and Dread can still offer input if need be.

 

[Bobsican]

I'd rather wait to see what Dread thinks on the matter.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I also prefer Planck's version, simple but effective.

 

[Elizhaa]

Planck69's texts seem fine.