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Hey kid wanna see a dead body.
So I'm back to revise the profile of our main cast of gods because that's kinda the most time consuming part to tackle yet also what a lot of people would want to see of our profiles. This probably won't be as big as the previous ones, as this is mostly just cleaning up some stuff from before.
Splitting up the gods more
So yeah. Last time I decided that our profiles should be split up according to different canon, with the Scarlet King even getting different profiles for it. In insight, I think this should just have been applied to all of those god profiles. And that's what I think we should do.
Currently, Mekhane, Yaldabaoth and the Serpent each have only one profile to their names, despite having several keys for several different canons each. This is already sort of gross to have different canons as keys, but considering how these all are very different entities on a fundamental level (unlike actual SCPs, who have the same original basis to pull from even in different canons) and how the different versions keep growing, this just isn't tenable anymore.
And so the three profiles above should be straight up split into many different profiles, one for each major incarnation. This should be done by creating different profiles for each of the keys, and leaving the original as a disambiguation for those now numerous profiles. And so we would have:
-Mekhane (Djoricverse) [Might be best renamed to Hakhama? It's the main name used, but it's less iconic)
-Mekhane (Kaktusverse)
-WAN [New profile for this specific version of WAN, based around the Maxwellism interpretation and mostly around the AIAD canon)
-SCP-001 (TwistedGears/Kaktus Proposal) [This one already exists, more proof we should do this]
-Yaldabaoth (Djoricverse)
-Važjuma (The actual name of Yaldabaoth as used in Kaktusverse)
-The Serpent (Djoricverse)
-The Serpent (Kaktusverse)
-The Serpent (War On All Fronts)
Part of the reasons why I'm doing this, as you might have guessed based on me plugging my WAN profile is that I/we might make more profiles for these guys, and doing this would quickly make the profiles bloated. Mekhane alone could end up with not only the three mentioned above, but one based around the Xia Dynasty incarnation on top of the SCP-001, maybe more. And the Serpent might get one based around the Metafoundation canon (such as the one in the white space canon), etc.
Kaktusverse revisions
We've got a lot more juicy interactions between the lower-level gods of Kaktusverse. Time to add those in.
First off, and this isn't even new or anything, but SCP-4971-▽ should be High 4-C. I have no idea why it isn't already. The thing's own original file states the following:
"Like many such anomalies, SCP-4971 is believed to be maintained by an external energy source. Due to the arcane rituals involved in the creation of SCP-4971, it is likely that this source, unlike others like it, is a being of considerable power."
Literally stating that this pocket dimension is being sustained by a power source, and this power source is in a fact a powerful being. Which can't be anything but the deer god inside. And said pocket dimension distinctively has a Sun. Since its massive power is supposedly the reasons why it can't be harmed, this should make both its AP and its durability High 4-C.
But this is just the first step to this new scaling chain. We now have a Kaktusverse Scarlet King, courtesy of SCP-6765. It doesn't have a profile yet but it probably will after this thread. In the aforementioned article, it's said that:
"I tell you now - these walls will fall, in time. I have not enough strength left within me to seal this thing away again, and should it become free from its lonely place of rest, not only will this sacred archive be lost to us forever, but another horror of the ancient world will come upon you. No power remains in this world that can contest a true god, even one who has died."
This implies that the Scarlet King should probably be above pretty much all of the earth-bound entities in Kaktusverse. At least ones related to this storyline. As SCP-4971-▽ is actually a god, it's probably fair enough to assume that this Scarlet King should be similar in power to it and thus be High 4-C. Similarly, I think this could apply to the Gate Guardian, who is even mentioned to have guarded one of the first city on Earth, a place the Scarlet King was known to frequent.
As a result, I think this Scarlet King should be High 4-C, with Massively FTL+ speed based on these two scaling. This can be used to scale to some of the other gods through the following new statements from SCP-4840:
"Oh, he… (Pause) I recall thrice when my father was angry. Once, when he shattered the iron god Mekhane - his own father - for attempting to usurp him, and then… ah, when my brother…"
"I stayed hidden until long after he was gone, but we… we heard stories. Stories of dark multitudes on long ships, of a dancing king under a red star and my father standing alone against them. It was not until later that I learned of the Nightwalkers and their Faerie masters. I would not have believed it, that any power existed in this world that could undo Adam el Asem, and yet he is… gone."
The "dancing king under a red star" refers to the Scarlet King. And so, we now know that Adam directly scales to Mekhane, and that Adam scales above the Scarlet King to some degree. This would make Kaktusverse Mekhane, Yaldabaoth, Titania and Adam all High 4-C and MFTL+.
And yes, I came around with Adam I think. I've long since argued that Adam shouldn't scale to the Gods directly, since he got taken out by the apes and all. I just did not want to go back to the dark days of every ape or fae being 1-A. But by now, I think it's probably fair to say that Adam is, in fact, comparable to the gods, if not higher. He should directly scale to High 4-C, not just through magic. It still doesn't mean SCP-1000 should scale to this outside of durability, especially since we know that Adam was "diminished" by the time both the Scarlet King fight and his death happened. I'd still apply this scaling only to their durability and technology.
But what about Tier 2? We currently scale Titania, Mekhane and Yaldy to 2-A based on Yaldabaoth's feats in the Sarkic hub. But honestly I... I kinda hate this. Not only are those feats noted to just be beliefs, meaning they could easily be wrong, but this is also absolutely not consistent with anything. Gods of this level never show anywhere near multiversal levels of strength, with Tier 4 being by far the most common tier for them. I really do believe that all of those people should only be High 4-C. Nothing more, nothing less.
One might bring up SCP-001 (TwistedGears/Kaktus Proposal), the Broken God rebuilt, who is Low 2-C at its peak. But I don't think this should apply to the past version of Mekhane. For one, Mekhane being on this level of power, capable of destroying the entire universe and being some sort of primordial cosmic being, isn't consistent with its lowly position in the Paragon lore. The beast is also nowhere near how Mekhane is described, lacking brains or the ability to create. And more importantly, this Broken God features a heart built by the Factory. This being is an inherently corrupted version of Mekhane, which goes on to devour the entire universe and reset the timeline. It isn't the old Mekhane, and this Mekhane shouldn't scale to it, I think.
So like yeah. High 4-C for everyone. Joy.
Djoricverse's turn
Not a lot here, but still. This mainly involves making MORE Tier 0s and I'm sorry for it, but that's how it be.
First off, The Brothers Death should be split into three keys.
"From the darkness then came the Great Death, the Middle Brother. He was not so mighty nor as vast as the Eldest, though his reach was wide indeed. His domain was to be catastrophe, and thus his face was obscured by wrought metal and stone."
"The Youngest did not approach his elder brothers, but remained apart from them. He was small in reach and mind, and his thoughts were narrow, such that the mind of the Middle was terrible to him, and the mind of the Eldest more horrible still. He watched the fire with cold silver eyes, but said nothing."
These statements from Chapter 1: Verse 1 very much state that the Great Death is superior to the Middle Brother, who in turn is superior to the Small Death. As the Small Death is the one with the feat of killing the Scarlet King, both the Youngest and the Middle would remain High 1-A. But this key separation is mostly for the All-Death, who gets the following description:
"In the beginning, there was darkness. All was formless waste and empty void - The quiet nothing without time or place, the gentle sleep that has no waking."
"Then there was light. The light separated the Darkness Above from the Darkness Beneath, and there was disparity between them. Between the darkness and the light there was also disparity, and shadows flickered therein. The light shone in the darkness, and was not overcome. Likewise the darkness was not destroyed, but given form both Above and Below. From the darkness came the Eldest, the All-Death. He came from the darkness and was of the darkness and was the darkness, and nothing to come might pass beyond him. Vast and mighty was he, that no other might comprehend the reach of his arm, or the length of his gaze. The Eldest sat by the light and watched it for a time, for he found the light good. The All-Death was not proud, firstborn though he was. He encompassed all that was and would be within the light and the dark, and so knew the manner of its turning and the hour of its passing. Only he might care for the light and what was to come, for only the Death of All Things might reach so far and be so just."
The All-Death is very much treated as the void before creation, encompassing both the darkness and the light of creation. As we already know, we have the Noosphere and SCP-3125 as things in Djoricverse, albeit things that were killed by the Scarlet King. And so, much like IS and IS NOT being the absolute existence/nonexistence preceding all of reality, including the SCP-5800 hierarchy, made them Tier 0, so would apply to the All-Death. I think it's obvious that the primordial void before existence, stated and shown to be superior in reach and power to all of it, would be absolutely beyond the hierarchy of SCP-5800, and thus be Tier 0.
Obviously this should apply to the All-Mighty, for being the strongest entity in Djoricverse's lore, but that's not all. I think the Wonder-Maker, depicted as an equal to the All-Death who proceeded to sorta fuse with it in order to give birth to a new world, should also scale to it. Which... does showcase a problem, as Isabel's key for the Wonder-Maker is High 1-A. And this key very much struggles against the Scarlet King. This isn't necessarily a problem with my new scaling, mind you. The text itself heavily implies that even the Smallest death dwarfs the Scarlet King, and then Middle Brother >>> and then All-Death >>> Middle Brother. So clearly there needs to be a solution to this. I propose three:
-Just don't scale the Wonder-Maker to the All-Death. Just ignore this contrast between them, and them implying they were the first two beings in creation, and go with the Wonder-Maker being much weaker than the All-Death. Kinda weird to do, but this scaling IS a lot more shaky than the obvious "Isabel gets her shit kicked in by the Scarlet King".
-Split Isabel's profile even more, giving her a third key. The tale Memory Of Days Long Past implicitly tells us that the Wonder-Maker is a force separate from Isabel herself. Obviously so, because Isabel is just a girl and the Wonder-Maker supposedly existed since the beginning of time. Isabel acts as its newest host, and this obviously powers her up to be able to tear the cosmos with her fists later on during the fight with the Scarlet King, but I don't think she is truly one with it. And so we would have a key for Isabel as the host of the Wonder-Maker
-Give Isabel's key a varying tier. She would be High 1-A in base, but up to Tier 0 through fully embracing her role as the Wonder-Maker. It's a bit weird and unexplained but it is an option.
I'd favor option 2, since I think it makes the most sense.
tl;dr
Mekhane, Yaldabaoth, and the Serpent get split into many different profiles for each of their current canon keys.
Kaktusverse lower gods get changed to High 4-C, upgrading some but dropping the Tier 2.
Djoricverse get the Brothers Death split in 3 keys, and the All-Death becoming Tier 0. The same goes for the All-Mighty and maaaaybe the Wonder-Maker.
Sorry this wasn't that much of a big one, and that I still didn't go around to fixing most of the lore of Mekhane and Yaldabaoth, but there is just a lot to go through for these two massive parts of the verse, and starting small with Maxwellism seemed the easiest. But yeah, here it is.
So I'm back to revise the profile of our main cast of gods because that's kinda the most time consuming part to tackle yet also what a lot of people would want to see of our profiles. This probably won't be as big as the previous ones, as this is mostly just cleaning up some stuff from before.
Splitting up the gods more
So yeah. Last time I decided that our profiles should be split up according to different canon, with the Scarlet King even getting different profiles for it. In insight, I think this should just have been applied to all of those god profiles. And that's what I think we should do.
Currently, Mekhane, Yaldabaoth and the Serpent each have only one profile to their names, despite having several keys for several different canons each. This is already sort of gross to have different canons as keys, but considering how these all are very different entities on a fundamental level (unlike actual SCPs, who have the same original basis to pull from even in different canons) and how the different versions keep growing, this just isn't tenable anymore.
And so the three profiles above should be straight up split into many different profiles, one for each major incarnation. This should be done by creating different profiles for each of the keys, and leaving the original as a disambiguation for those now numerous profiles. And so we would have:
-Mekhane (Djoricverse) [Might be best renamed to Hakhama? It's the main name used, but it's less iconic)
-Mekhane (Kaktusverse)
-WAN [New profile for this specific version of WAN, based around the Maxwellism interpretation and mostly around the AIAD canon)
-SCP-001 (TwistedGears/Kaktus Proposal) [This one already exists, more proof we should do this]
-Yaldabaoth (Djoricverse)
-Važjuma (The actual name of Yaldabaoth as used in Kaktusverse)
-The Serpent (Djoricverse)
-The Serpent (Kaktusverse)
-The Serpent (War On All Fronts)
Part of the reasons why I'm doing this, as you might have guessed based on me plugging my WAN profile is that I/we might make more profiles for these guys, and doing this would quickly make the profiles bloated. Mekhane alone could end up with not only the three mentioned above, but one based around the Xia Dynasty incarnation on top of the SCP-001, maybe more. And the Serpent might get one based around the Metafoundation canon (such as the one in the white space canon), etc.
Kaktusverse revisions
We've got a lot more juicy interactions between the lower-level gods of Kaktusverse. Time to add those in.
First off, and this isn't even new or anything, but SCP-4971-▽ should be High 4-C. I have no idea why it isn't already. The thing's own original file states the following:
"Like many such anomalies, SCP-4971 is believed to be maintained by an external energy source. Due to the arcane rituals involved in the creation of SCP-4971, it is likely that this source, unlike others like it, is a being of considerable power."
Literally stating that this pocket dimension is being sustained by a power source, and this power source is in a fact a powerful being. Which can't be anything but the deer god inside. And said pocket dimension distinctively has a Sun. Since its massive power is supposedly the reasons why it can't be harmed, this should make both its AP and its durability High 4-C.
But this is just the first step to this new scaling chain. We now have a Kaktusverse Scarlet King, courtesy of SCP-6765. It doesn't have a profile yet but it probably will after this thread. In the aforementioned article, it's said that:
"I tell you now - these walls will fall, in time. I have not enough strength left within me to seal this thing away again, and should it become free from its lonely place of rest, not only will this sacred archive be lost to us forever, but another horror of the ancient world will come upon you. No power remains in this world that can contest a true god, even one who has died."
This implies that the Scarlet King should probably be above pretty much all of the earth-bound entities in Kaktusverse. At least ones related to this storyline. As SCP-4971-▽ is actually a god, it's probably fair enough to assume that this Scarlet King should be similar in power to it and thus be High 4-C. Similarly, I think this could apply to the Gate Guardian, who is even mentioned to have guarded one of the first city on Earth, a place the Scarlet King was known to frequent.
As a result, I think this Scarlet King should be High 4-C, with Massively FTL+ speed based on these two scaling. This can be used to scale to some of the other gods through the following new statements from SCP-4840:
"Oh, he… (Pause) I recall thrice when my father was angry. Once, when he shattered the iron god Mekhane - his own father - for attempting to usurp him, and then… ah, when my brother…"
"I stayed hidden until long after he was gone, but we… we heard stories. Stories of dark multitudes on long ships, of a dancing king under a red star and my father standing alone against them. It was not until later that I learned of the Nightwalkers and their Faerie masters. I would not have believed it, that any power existed in this world that could undo Adam el Asem, and yet he is… gone."
The "dancing king under a red star" refers to the Scarlet King. And so, we now know that Adam directly scales to Mekhane, and that Adam scales above the Scarlet King to some degree. This would make Kaktusverse Mekhane, Yaldabaoth, Titania and Adam all High 4-C and MFTL+.
And yes, I came around with Adam I think. I've long since argued that Adam shouldn't scale to the Gods directly, since he got taken out by the apes and all. I just did not want to go back to the dark days of every ape or fae being 1-A. But by now, I think it's probably fair to say that Adam is, in fact, comparable to the gods, if not higher. He should directly scale to High 4-C, not just through magic. It still doesn't mean SCP-1000 should scale to this outside of durability, especially since we know that Adam was "diminished" by the time both the Scarlet King fight and his death happened. I'd still apply this scaling only to their durability and technology.
But what about Tier 2? We currently scale Titania, Mekhane and Yaldy to 2-A based on Yaldabaoth's feats in the Sarkic hub. But honestly I... I kinda hate this. Not only are those feats noted to just be beliefs, meaning they could easily be wrong, but this is also absolutely not consistent with anything. Gods of this level never show anywhere near multiversal levels of strength, with Tier 4 being by far the most common tier for them. I really do believe that all of those people should only be High 4-C. Nothing more, nothing less.
One might bring up SCP-001 (TwistedGears/Kaktus Proposal), the Broken God rebuilt, who is Low 2-C at its peak. But I don't think this should apply to the past version of Mekhane. For one, Mekhane being on this level of power, capable of destroying the entire universe and being some sort of primordial cosmic being, isn't consistent with its lowly position in the Paragon lore. The beast is also nowhere near how Mekhane is described, lacking brains or the ability to create. And more importantly, this Broken God features a heart built by the Factory. This being is an inherently corrupted version of Mekhane, which goes on to devour the entire universe and reset the timeline. It isn't the old Mekhane, and this Mekhane shouldn't scale to it, I think.
So like yeah. High 4-C for everyone. Joy.
Djoricverse's turn
Not a lot here, but still. This mainly involves making MORE Tier 0s and I'm sorry for it, but that's how it be.
First off, The Brothers Death should be split into three keys.
"From the darkness then came the Great Death, the Middle Brother. He was not so mighty nor as vast as the Eldest, though his reach was wide indeed. His domain was to be catastrophe, and thus his face was obscured by wrought metal and stone."
"The Youngest did not approach his elder brothers, but remained apart from them. He was small in reach and mind, and his thoughts were narrow, such that the mind of the Middle was terrible to him, and the mind of the Eldest more horrible still. He watched the fire with cold silver eyes, but said nothing."
These statements from Chapter 1: Verse 1 very much state that the Great Death is superior to the Middle Brother, who in turn is superior to the Small Death. As the Small Death is the one with the feat of killing the Scarlet King, both the Youngest and the Middle would remain High 1-A. But this key separation is mostly for the All-Death, who gets the following description:
"In the beginning, there was darkness. All was formless waste and empty void - The quiet nothing without time or place, the gentle sleep that has no waking."
"Then there was light. The light separated the Darkness Above from the Darkness Beneath, and there was disparity between them. Between the darkness and the light there was also disparity, and shadows flickered therein. The light shone in the darkness, and was not overcome. Likewise the darkness was not destroyed, but given form both Above and Below. From the darkness came the Eldest, the All-Death. He came from the darkness and was of the darkness and was the darkness, and nothing to come might pass beyond him. Vast and mighty was he, that no other might comprehend the reach of his arm, or the length of his gaze. The Eldest sat by the light and watched it for a time, for he found the light good. The All-Death was not proud, firstborn though he was. He encompassed all that was and would be within the light and the dark, and so knew the manner of its turning and the hour of its passing. Only he might care for the light and what was to come, for only the Death of All Things might reach so far and be so just."
The All-Death is very much treated as the void before creation, encompassing both the darkness and the light of creation. As we already know, we have the Noosphere and SCP-3125 as things in Djoricverse, albeit things that were killed by the Scarlet King. And so, much like IS and IS NOT being the absolute existence/nonexistence preceding all of reality, including the SCP-5800 hierarchy, made them Tier 0, so would apply to the All-Death. I think it's obvious that the primordial void before existence, stated and shown to be superior in reach and power to all of it, would be absolutely beyond the hierarchy of SCP-5800, and thus be Tier 0.
Obviously this should apply to the All-Mighty, for being the strongest entity in Djoricverse's lore, but that's not all. I think the Wonder-Maker, depicted as an equal to the All-Death who proceeded to sorta fuse with it in order to give birth to a new world, should also scale to it. Which... does showcase a problem, as Isabel's key for the Wonder-Maker is High 1-A. And this key very much struggles against the Scarlet King. This isn't necessarily a problem with my new scaling, mind you. The text itself heavily implies that even the Smallest death dwarfs the Scarlet King, and then Middle Brother >>> and then All-Death >>> Middle Brother. So clearly there needs to be a solution to this. I propose three:
-Just don't scale the Wonder-Maker to the All-Death. Just ignore this contrast between them, and them implying they were the first two beings in creation, and go with the Wonder-Maker being much weaker than the All-Death. Kinda weird to do, but this scaling IS a lot more shaky than the obvious "Isabel gets her shit kicked in by the Scarlet King".
-Split Isabel's profile even more, giving her a third key. The tale Memory Of Days Long Past implicitly tells us that the Wonder-Maker is a force separate from Isabel herself. Obviously so, because Isabel is just a girl and the Wonder-Maker supposedly existed since the beginning of time. Isabel acts as its newest host, and this obviously powers her up to be able to tear the cosmos with her fists later on during the fight with the Scarlet King, but I don't think she is truly one with it. And so we would have a key for Isabel as the host of the Wonder-Maker
-Give Isabel's key a varying tier. She would be High 1-A in base, but up to Tier 0 through fully embracing her role as the Wonder-Maker. It's a bit weird and unexplained but it is an option.
I'd favor option 2, since I think it makes the most sense.
tl;dr
Mekhane, Yaldabaoth, and the Serpent get split into many different profiles for each of their current canon keys.
Kaktusverse lower gods get changed to High 4-C, upgrading some but dropping the Tier 2.
Djoricverse get the Brothers Death split in 3 keys, and the All-Death becoming Tier 0. The same goes for the All-Mighty and maaaaybe the Wonder-Maker.
Sorry this wasn't that much of a big one, and that I still didn't go around to fixing most of the lore of Mekhane and Yaldabaoth, but there is just a lot to go through for these two massive parts of the verse, and starting small with Maxwellism seemed the easiest. But yeah, here it is.
