- 436
- 509
— Main Problems.
• Aoi Hayanose Plot Manipulation Reasonings.
The main thing that Aoi has PM is the description; (Aoi can manipulate the plot of destiny; like a movie protagonist she is protected from death as long as her death is "not interesting") - This is an incorrect description and completely ignores the context in Volume 2 of Instant Death. Because there are so many loopholes.
Aoi can indeed see fate as a "script" just like a movie. However, the Meta-Story there is just a metaphor to explain that each destiny will have a different flow of events. Aoi herself admits that she cannot see everything simultaneously because it is situation-based and each scenario can change in complex ways. Aoi can only see the "destiny" that happens at that moment in time, not simultaneously for all time ( https://gyazo.com/6192eb41e83c03dd1cfd3d886976a018 ) <- Furthermore, another justification for Aoi's Plot Manipulation is because of her alleged Worldview Holders which would fall into the Slippery Slope Fallacy of only taking the extreme of an event (the highest point). Aoi's ability is only described as being able to change events and the world around her, not the entire world. This is very limited, and Aoi admits herself that she cannot do what she thinks is impossible including people who have High-Fate Value, beings who can be considered to have resistance to fate or Supernatural Luck cannot be affected ( https://gyazo.com/dfc0211ae68d151e0a6568d13b1eb4fd ) <- In the next sheet, the meaning of what is "impossible" for Aoi's ability to do is clarified, the moment when she fights the Reptilian Beast, Aoi admits that she cannot change or resist the existence of the Reptilian Beast especially in the size of its head because of the difference in size and strength so that she needs a physical battle to defeat the monster ( https://gyazo.com/83962dd9bfb60cf5789d61a4a9f6f086 ).
The entire conversation of Volume 2 proves that Aoi's destiny ability is limited. Aoi cannot control up to the Heavenly Record stage, which is a very wrong wank. Especially, statistically Aoi is the weakest Sage ( )
• Fate Value, Meta-Story, that is a full of misconceptions.
Based on the above, it is clear that the limitation of Aoi's abilities, which from all the descriptions I found, are "seeing fate, changing fate" and the like on a limited scale. The meaning of "Meta Story" can be interpreted as controlling events with other events, which is different from the fundamental criteria of Plot Manipulation from the vsbattle standard that looks at the fictionalization of characters who have this ability.
"Plot Manipulation is the ability to control the plot that governs reality. Commonly found in metafictional stories, the plot can be understood as a fundamental aspect of reality once one views that reality as fictional. It is the description of the world that doesn't only describe, but determines, reality itself."
Based on the explanation of Aoi's ability, her ability is limited and only leads to the "destiny" she sees ( ), the meaning of meta story in these scans ( ) <- does not mean that Aoi controls one's destiny to a fundamental level, but only sees destiny as a metaphor like a movie script. Meta story can mean "a story within a story" and the destiny Aoi sees is a small destiny of the big destiny she sees (the meaning of small destiny here is that she only sees the part of the script that benefits her).
Balance of Power ≠ Plot of Destiny. Here Aoi's ability used to change events is "Balance of Power" and this is more like Subjective Reality with Fate Manipulation, according to Aoi's ability. Scans for Balance of Power: ( )
Aoi's own abilities are limited and she can be subject to Fear Inducement by her opponent. Despite having Precognition, if the opponent's skill base is superior and has Fear Manip like Yogiri, then Aoi can be paralyzed. Scans for Aoi being hit by Yogiri's Fear Manip: () - You might reason that Yogiri was the end all be all, and would obviously scare Aoi, but that context is irrelevant because the reason Aoi was scared was because she saw a destiny where the victory was entirely Yogiri's and she could not overcome that with her Balance of Power.
• Yukimasa's Future Controls.
Yukimasa as a person who also confronts Yogiri and can control "fate" does not show the conditions corresponding to Plot Manipulation, but only a form of Fate Manipulation which ultimately has no effect on Yogiri. Based on her ability to manipulate the future with a full description can be seen here: ( https://imgur.io/a/TmlN0GH )
— Conclusion.
1. Aoi does not have Plot Manipulation, we here cannot suppress the context to bring Heavenly Record, even though in the same volume (volume 2) Aoi admits that her abilities are very limited and cannot deny the existence of the opponent.
2. Aoi does not have Plot Manipulation, but only Fate Manipulation. The meaning of Meta- Story is different from Meta- Fictional. Standard vsbattle uses Meta-Fictional which directs the plot as the fundamental aspect and the user sees it as a "fiction" that can be changed regardless of the setting, not just a string of fate that is seen like a movie script, if it is just like that then her ability will only be a Meta-Story that manipulates events on other events on a small scale.
3. Takatou Yogiri will also not have Plot Manip.
4. The most appropriate rating is to change Plot Manip, to Fate Manipulation along with the resistance to the ability.
— Votings.
• Agree: @FlugelAlcor @Robo @Setsuna_tenma @guguk01 @Vasco @Mr._Undetected @WanderingGecko @Tatsumi504 @MattSatire @Gutzz @Duedate8898 (staff) @Harith0cell @Fixxed @Rendynoc0unter @RamadhanDayYet @GreatIskandar14045 @Goatzuki21
• Disagree:
@PhantomØ4 @Overlord_THE_END
• Aoi Hayanose Plot Manipulation Reasonings.
The main thing that Aoi has PM is the description; (Aoi can manipulate the plot of destiny; like a movie protagonist she is protected from death as long as her death is "not interesting") - This is an incorrect description and completely ignores the context in Volume 2 of Instant Death. Because there are so many loopholes.
Aoi can indeed see fate as a "script" just like a movie. However, the Meta-Story there is just a metaphor to explain that each destiny will have a different flow of events. Aoi herself admits that she cannot see everything simultaneously because it is situation-based and each scenario can change in complex ways. Aoi can only see the "destiny" that happens at that moment in time, not simultaneously for all time ( https://gyazo.com/6192eb41e83c03dd1cfd3d886976a018 ) <- Furthermore, another justification for Aoi's Plot Manipulation is because of her alleged Worldview Holders which would fall into the Slippery Slope Fallacy of only taking the extreme of an event (the highest point). Aoi's ability is only described as being able to change events and the world around her, not the entire world. This is very limited, and Aoi admits herself that she cannot do what she thinks is impossible including people who have High-Fate Value, beings who can be considered to have resistance to fate or Supernatural Luck cannot be affected ( https://gyazo.com/dfc0211ae68d151e0a6568d13b1eb4fd ) <- In the next sheet, the meaning of what is "impossible" for Aoi's ability to do is clarified, the moment when she fights the Reptilian Beast, Aoi admits that she cannot change or resist the existence of the Reptilian Beast especially in the size of its head because of the difference in size and strength so that she needs a physical battle to defeat the monster ( https://gyazo.com/83962dd9bfb60cf5789d61a4a9f6f086 ).
The entire conversation of Volume 2 proves that Aoi's destiny ability is limited. Aoi cannot control up to the Heavenly Record stage, which is a very wrong wank. Especially, statistically Aoi is the weakest Sage ( )
• Fate Value, Meta-Story, that is a full of misconceptions.
Based on the above, it is clear that the limitation of Aoi's abilities, which from all the descriptions I found, are "seeing fate, changing fate" and the like on a limited scale. The meaning of "Meta Story" can be interpreted as controlling events with other events, which is different from the fundamental criteria of Plot Manipulation from the vsbattle standard that looks at the fictionalization of characters who have this ability.
"Plot Manipulation is the ability to control the plot that governs reality. Commonly found in metafictional stories, the plot can be understood as a fundamental aspect of reality once one views that reality as fictional. It is the description of the world that doesn't only describe, but determines, reality itself."
Based on the explanation of Aoi's ability, her ability is limited and only leads to the "destiny" she sees ( ), the meaning of meta story in these scans ( ) <- does not mean that Aoi controls one's destiny to a fundamental level, but only sees destiny as a metaphor like a movie script. Meta story can mean "a story within a story" and the destiny Aoi sees is a small destiny of the big destiny she sees (the meaning of small destiny here is that she only sees the part of the script that benefits her).
Balance of Power ≠ Plot of Destiny. Here Aoi's ability used to change events is "Balance of Power" and this is more like Subjective Reality with Fate Manipulation, according to Aoi's ability. Scans for Balance of Power: ( )
Aoi's own abilities are limited and she can be subject to Fear Inducement by her opponent. Despite having Precognition, if the opponent's skill base is superior and has Fear Manip like Yogiri, then Aoi can be paralyzed. Scans for Aoi being hit by Yogiri's Fear Manip: () - You might reason that Yogiri was the end all be all, and would obviously scare Aoi, but that context is irrelevant because the reason Aoi was scared was because she saw a destiny where the victory was entirely Yogiri's and she could not overcome that with her Balance of Power.
• Yukimasa's Future Controls.
Yukimasa as a person who also confronts Yogiri and can control "fate" does not show the conditions corresponding to Plot Manipulation, but only a form of Fate Manipulation which ultimately has no effect on Yogiri. Based on her ability to manipulate the future with a full description can be seen here: ( https://imgur.io/a/TmlN0GH )
— Conclusion.
1. Aoi does not have Plot Manipulation, we here cannot suppress the context to bring Heavenly Record, even though in the same volume (volume 2) Aoi admits that her abilities are very limited and cannot deny the existence of the opponent.
2. Aoi does not have Plot Manipulation, but only Fate Manipulation. The meaning of Meta- Story is different from Meta- Fictional. Standard vsbattle uses Meta-Fictional which directs the plot as the fundamental aspect and the user sees it as a "fiction" that can be changed regardless of the setting, not just a string of fate that is seen like a movie script, if it is just like that then her ability will only be a Meta-Story that manipulates events on other events on a small scale.
3. Takatou Yogiri will also not have Plot Manip.
4. The most appropriate rating is to change Plot Manip, to Fate Manipulation along with the resistance to the ability.
— Votings.
• Agree: @FlugelAlcor @Robo @Setsuna_tenma @guguk01 @Vasco @Mr._Undetected @WanderingGecko @Tatsumi504 @MattSatire @Gutzz @Duedate8898 (staff) @Harith0cell @Fixxed @Rendynoc0unter @RamadhanDayYet @GreatIskandar14045 @Goatzuki21
• Disagree:
@PhantomØ4 @Overlord_THE_END
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