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Death Battle Season Ten Discussion Thread (1) (All-time Death Battle Spoilers Alert)

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BlackDarkness679 said:
It opens the door for many franchises that uses lore to indicate a character power, even if visually they may not have shown it
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We already have Universal Chosen Undead, there is NO EXCUSE for Kratos... unless they like believe Uni CU is believable but Uni Kratos isnt?

I did wonder about the Primordials thing, since they literally punched and created at bare minimum large number of stars, thats usable enough feat. Im even curious how strong that feat is if you low ball it to only count the energy needed for all the stars created.
 
TMaakkonen said:
We already have Universal Chosen Undead, there is NO EXCUSE for Kratos... unless they like believe Uni CU is believable but Uni Kratos isnt?
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Pretty sure they explicitly said that Uni Chosen Undead was an extreme high end. With Kratos his scaling can be a bit subjective when it comes to the individual scaling him so it ultimately depends on the research team that's assigned to Kratos.
 
LordGinSama said:
Pretty sure they explicitly said that Uni Chosen Undead was an extreme high end. With Kratos his scaling can be a bit subjective when it comes to the individual scaling him so it ultimately depends on the research team that's assigned to Kratos.
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It was maximum potential, but not necessarily high balled one?

Wiz: There's also the lore. Both characters are essentially mythological demigods in the same kind of vein as Hercules or Sun Wukong. Gameplay alone won't give you the best idea of their full power as characters.

Boomstick: So let's get an idea of their max potential from... the lore!

Wiz: The Chosen Undead sustaining the First Flame with their soul was insanely impressive, considering the First Flame is responsible for the core concepts of the universe, like energy and time; it's not a stretch to say it affects not just the planet they live on, but the whole universe.
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This didnt quite imply that they went overboard, rather that it was standard peak, which is what DB tries to use in general. They didnt mention that they overestimate CU.
 
TMaakkonen said:
Was there a specific event that allows Olympians to scale to Primordials?
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Yeah canonically Cronos defeated and overthrew Uranus and then the Olympians defeated and overthrew Cronos and the rest of the titans, Thanatos is also a primordial and he got destroyed by a version of Kratos that had only been granted partial godhood by Athena.

The_Unknown_Warrior1 said:
I mean I suppose the Thor thing would be unconvincing, you could argue that it's time travel, but I don't see the issue with the World Pillar feat. Because when Persephone said it would erase all of creation, she clarifies that the Pillar's destruction would've reverted all of existence back to the primordial Chaos which had preceded creation...and she vaporized the Pillar from her dying breath, so it seems weird that people wouldn't buy that when it's in the game itself.

Not to mention that in the Norse side of things you do have more direct feats of cosmic power like Odin slaying Ymir before time itself began and fashioning the 9 Realms out of flesh, Kratos being able to seal away Realm Tears with brute strength which can threaten the existence of individual realms, and all that jazz. Maybe I'm just not seeing it like they do, but I really can't see the gameplay and lore being separate concepts as opposed to being intertwined
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Well the thing is I think most people would be fine with the cosmic stuff if it wasn't for the norse games, they don't do a particularly good job convincing people that all the different myths are universal in scope instead of being limited to their country of origin. People don't think the world pillar holding up all of creation is that impressive because they think it refers to greece and nothing else, Odin creating the 9 realms (Well actually 7) isn't overly impressive to people since they think midgard is only scandinavia and since the realms are meant to be similar in scope they tend to think the realms aren't full sized universes either.

Doesn't help the greek games had the sun being a temple pulled by Helios instead of being an actual full sized sun, which in turn led people to believe that if the sun isn't truly that big in the games then the stars from Uranus when he got punched also aren't as big as real stars. Like, I'm a firm beleiver of universal Kratos but I think it's easy to see why there's a decent chunk of people that don't have him higher than continental.
 
Some level of cosmic Kratos is fine, esp. since it was Ouranos whose fight created stars and Cronos beat him while Kratos beat Cronos. Infinite speeds are likely too much tho.

As a lowball, was Ouranos' clash ever calced counting only all the stars he created in one clash? Is that SS or maybe even Galaxy level feat?
 
TMaakkonen said:
Some level of cosmic Kratos is fine, esp. since it was Ouranos whose fight created stars and Cronos beat him while Kratos beat Cronos. Infinite speeds are likely too much tho.

As a lowball, was Ouranos' clash ever calced counting only all the stars he created in one clash? Is that SS or maybe even Galaxy level feat?
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I don't think the Infinite speed feat is that much of a stretch considering it's a pretty simple feat.

It's just Helios light being able to reach Infinite size structures.

Even if said structures aren't Infinite, it's still easy Massively FTL+, like Quadrillions to Quintillions
 
Emirp sumitpo said:
I don't think the Infinite speed feat is that much of a stretch considering it's a pretty simple feat.

It's just Helios light being able to reach Infinite size structures.

Even if said structures aren't Infinite, it's still easy Massively FTL+, like Quadrillions to Quintillions
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Its a losing battle of mine to be strict on absurdly high powers and infinite+ speeds are that.

Technically I guess if I were more strict, I dont think there has been blatant feats, scaling or statements of Kratos dodging Helios' light but Im not too versed on all of GoW.

Its realistically useless for DB tho since I feel like they are not that strict anymore and he would get all the shit needed to beat Asura. Kratos is very likely winning against Asura.
 
TMaakkonen said:
Technically I guess if I were more strict, I dont think there has been blatant feats, scaling or statements of Kratos dodging Helios' light but Im not too versed on all of GoW.
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Kratos himself doesn't but he has kept with Hercules and a tired Hermes, who both can actually react and do stuff to avoid the light (Hercules blocks it, Hermes just runs faster than it).
 
TartaChocholate said:
Reminds me of the people who also dismiss gameplay as "gameplay mechanics" and only consider stuff that happens in cutscenes.
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This is kind of random, but I remember I was debating someone who asked why Cloud would beat Link (this was Link vs Cloud 2). I told them the usual feats like Sephiroth's Supernova, Knights of the Round, Bahamut Fury, etcetera, and they said something along the lines of, "Oh, of course it would be the totally ridiculous cutscenes. Link would still win if it was gameplay only." I was obviously very confused since as you know, all of the feats I listed come from gameplay, but it turns out that they didn't think turn-based combat counted as gameplay, and thus every turn-based RPG is not a video game. I'm serious. They felt they were more along the lines of point-and-click adventure games (totally ignoring, as I pointed out, that those are video games too). It was probably the most baffling discussion I've had on the internet (and yes, it was on the Death Battle subreddit).
 
TMaakkonen said:
We already have Universal Chosen Undead, there is NO EXCUSE for Kratos... unless they like believe Uni CU is believable but Uni Kratos isnt?

I did wonder about the Primordials thing, since they literally punched and created at bare minimum large number of stars, thats usable enough feat. Im even curious how strong that feat is if you low ball it to only count the energy needed for all the stars created.
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Dante too, Bayonetta as well and any game or non game verse who uses lore to tell you "oh, this dude can nuke stars or a multiverse"
 
CharlesZaGreat said:
1200.png


It all came down to this, and the winner is....


Guts! Our dear Black Swords Man. Look at that innocent smile, so pure. He really is happy about his win, after all its probably one of the few times he's won in life.
pls5ttwl5u671.jpg

10. Raven
9. Obito Uchiha
8. The Doctor
7. Chosen Undead
6. Alex Mercer
5. Son Goku
4. Makima
3. Satoru Gojo
2. Dimitri Alexandre Blaiddyd
1. Guts

Screen20Shot202024-01-1220at207.png

Dimitri doesn't mind the loss, he did win their mid battle
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As expected, every male ever wants to wear edgy cool armor. It's in our nature. Everyone likes edgy tragic warriors.
 
Dust_Collector said:
Well the thing is I think most people would be fine with the cosmic stuff if it wasn't for the norse games, they don't do a particularly good job convincing people that all the different myths are universal in scope instead of being limited to their country of origin. People don't think the world pillar holding up all of creation is that impressive because they think it refers to greece and nothing else, Odin creating the 9 realms (Well actually 7) isn't overly impressive to people since they think midgard is only scandinavia and since the realms are meant to be similar in scope they tend to think the realms aren't full sized universes either.
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Pretty much
Gow suffers from not being outright blatant in terms of its scale to make folks be more open to its scailing
Norse wise
 
If Kratos vs Asura happens I just want Asura to throw planets and stars at Kratos, and have Kratos tank and no sell it. Maybe then they will realize how ridiculous Multiversal Kratonks is.
 
Dust_Collector said:
Well the thing is I think most people would be fine with the cosmic stuff if it wasn't for the norse games, they don't do a particularly good job convincing people that all the different myths are universal in scope instead of being limited to their country of origin. People don't think the world pillar holding up all of creation is that impressive because they think it refers to greece and nothing else, Odin creating the 9 realms (Well actually 7) isn't overly impressive to people since they think midgard is only scandinavia and since the realms are meant to be similar in scope they tend to think the realms aren't full sized universes either.

Doesn't help the greek games had the sun being a temple pulled by Helios instead of being an actual full sized sun, which in turn led people to believe that if the sun isn't truly that big in the games then the stars from Uranus when he got punched also aren't as big as real stars. Like, I'm a firm beleiver of universal Kratos but I think it's easy to see why there's a decent chunk of people that don't have him higher than continental.
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^All of this here? I think this exemplifies why I believe the lore of GOW is a necessity when it comes to power scaling the series, because when the games make an implication about something that happens in universe then the lore comes in and finishes the job for them.

Like I think it's thanks to lore presented in game, guidebooks, and even Word of God from a number of sources that we know Greece and Scandinavia in GOW aren't merely just geographical locations found on Earth, but essentially macrocosms ala Dragon Ball that are separated from one another. That's what enables Greece and Scandinavia to have their creation myths, the Primordials creating the Greek World during their war and Odin slaying Ymir in the void before time itself began and drowning all of creation with his blood, without causing any contradictions or issues because they're realms that are far beyond country sized.
 
ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn said:
This is kind of random, but I remember I was debating someone who asked why Cloud would beat Link (this was Link vs Cloud 2). I told them the usual feats like Sephiroth's Supernova, Knights of the Round, Bahamut Fury, etcetera, and they said something along the lines of, "Oh, of course it would be the totally ridiculous cutscenes. Link would still win if it was gameplay only." I was obviously very confused since as you know, all of the feats I listed come from gameplay, but it turns out that they didn't think turn-based combat counted as gameplay, and thus every turn-based RPG is not a video game. I'm serious. They felt they were more along the lines of point-and-click adventure games (totally ignoring, as I pointed out, that those are video games too). It was probably the most baffling discussion I've had on the internet (and yes, it was on the Death Battle subreddit).
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Comparing turn based combat in an RPG to a point and click adventure and saying neither are actually video games is one hell of a take, must've taken that dude an incredible amount of brain power to think of something like that.
 
Dust_Collector said:
Comparing turn based combat in an RPG to a point and click adventure and saying neither are actually video games is one hell of a take, must've taken that dude an incredible amount of brain power to think of something like that.
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Yes, a lot, I assume.

They were also saying something like, "calling them video games is an insult to actual video games like The Legend of Zelda, God of War, Doom, etcetera," which left me even more confused.

I think they said they consider these "not video games" as more like interactive movies/power points? I didn't really get it either.
 
Maskofthedragon said:
This kind of nonsense has existed forever
FF summons have got to be some of the most clear-cut feats yet people will still genuinely believe some bs to ignore them
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Oh, I know, but it wasn't that this person ignored them (they didn't, they probably just forgot about them, maybe (I'm probably giving them too much credit)) that was weird, it's that they legitimately believed that turn-based RPGs are not video games. That's what was surprising to me.
 
Dust_Collector said:
Too bad that doesn't save Cloud from Link who is multiversal in the lore trust me bro he scales to the goddesses
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I'm no Zelda expert here, but don't people highball Link to that level because of the Triforce? I've heard some rumbling over the years that the full Triforce can grant the user the power to rival the gods, but again I know diddly dick about Zelda lore so I'll just ask if that's true or not
 
Dust_Collector said:
Too bad that doesn't save Cloud from Link who is multiversal in the lore trust me bro he scales to the goddesses
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The_Unknown_Warrior1 said:
I'm no Zelda expert here, but don't people highball Link to that level because of the Triforce? I've heard some rumbling over the years that the full Triforce can grant the user the power to rival the gods, but again I know diddly dick about Zelda lore so I'll just ask if that's true or not
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He's just mad the blonde that doesn't have pointed ears but has a bigger sword is usually rated higher in Vs forums.
 
The_Unknown_Warrior1 said:
I'm no Zelda expert here, but don't people highball Link to that level because of the Triforce? I've heard some rumbling over the years that the full Triforce can grant the user the power to rival the gods, but again I know diddly dick about Zelda lore so I'll just ask if that's true or not
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The Triforce could be argued to be on par the goddesses, but given it's feats compared to theirs it's hard to say it's in par with them, plus it being called the power of gods has often been used to refer to stuff like having protection from evil magic. Not like it'd scale back to Link anyway, he's had the full thing a few times but not only was it for incredibly short periods of time before he handed it off to someone else or left it alone after making a wish he never used it to empower himself. Plus he's never fought anyone empowered by the full thing either unless we get whacky and say BOTW/TOTK Zelda has the full thing and Link beat Ganondorf who is >>>>> TOTK Zelda.

The_Axiom_of_Virgo said:
He's just mad the blonde that doesn't have pointed ears but has a bigger sword is usually rated higher in Vs forums.
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I'll have you know I'll be anything but mad that Cloud has a bigger sword, god I wish he'd use it on

Actually, not gonna finish that sentenc
 
The_Axiom_of_Virgo said:
He's just mad the blonde that doesn't have pointed ears but has a bigger sword is usually rated higher in Vs forums.
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You know, considering that Cloud is blonde and has blue eyes....do you think that Cloud might be a poster boy for a specific group of people with a very specific ideology who happen to have a thing for blue eyed blonde people? I ain't going to spell it out, just food for thought.

Though it is odd that Cloud's high end scaling is still pretty low compared to how we scale him, even when FF's got some pretty nutty visual feats to go off of
 
@Joycap I don’t remember if you talked about this(mostly cause I got gold fish memory). What are your thoughts on Sorey from Tales of Zestiria vs Rex from Xenoblade?
 
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