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How the **** did Ash lose like 20 years before Alola League.

How many kids shows have MCs lose that hard and for so long? And it's Pokemon even.
 
1. How fast is Kamen Rider Ichigo?
2. How strong is Captain America with the shield?
3. Is this Captain America even given a Mjolnir?
1. Kamen Rider Ichigo has a light-dodging feat, according to our profile.

2. IDK
3. I don't think it is Cap's standard equipment
 
How the **** did Ash lose like 20 years before Alola League.

How many kids shows have MCs lose that hard and for so long? And it's Pokemon even.
the poor guy had something that was the opposite of plot armor.

I personally think it was just to avoid changing the main character in the pokemon anime.
 
1. Kamen Rider Ichigo has a light-dodging feat, according to our profile.

2. IDK
3. I don't think it is Cap's standard equipment
Caps shield withstood a hammer strike from King-Thor and a punch from Hulk, so he has that going for him I guess.
 
Kinda weird they now have ash winning a lot nowadays
Aiola and now this
Is it tho? For the first time in the entire series he actually used a team of high tier and fully evolved pokemon and ended up winning, maybe he's finally figured out how battling works lol
 
Like seriously, what are the other most notable cases of protagonist just losing?

And how do they lose to Ash losing 20 years lol

Goku kinda has bad record in DBS.
 
Ash got a viable team for once instead of just throwing first evolution pokemon and pikchu at the champions and expecting to win via friendship
I mean, Gen1-6 Ash is the single most BTFO protagonist ever. Never winning across 20+ ******* years because they didn't want to replace him.

How do you have character lose in 6 different sagas that bad.
 
I wonder if they're changing Ash now that he became a champion.
I mean he's been the champion of Alola for like 3 years now and nothing really changed, hell he's been the champion/winner-or-whatever of the Orange Islands of like 23 years ago at this point (which is older than most people on this site). Like I get that no one cares about Orange Islands and Alola is basically just Orange Islands but canon, but like technically ash has won and continued his lifestyle pretty much the same. Him winning a wierd ass tournament which debatably means nothing doesn't really change anything.
 
Intellect
No
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A non-game canon region-lite filler anime arc that isn't even a real Pokemon League :^)
It still technically counts, it's brought up occasion in the anime (I vaguely remember one of the flamboyant male gym leaders using it to hype up their match, I'm Gen 4, idk)
I wonder if they made Ash win that due to losing the League prior.
It's probably partially due to the fact that Pokemon was never really meant to last as long as it did. GameFreak was planning on ending the series after Johto, the only reason it continued was because the series was so profitable they decided to continue. I know that the first movie was initially meant to be the series finally (future kids and all) so I wouldn't be surprised if Orange Islands was initially meant to be as a potential ending for the series if they didn't continue the show or at least serve as build up for Johto being the ending.
 
Blah blah blah... the Pokémon anime is hard carried by nostalgia bait and brand power, which allows it to get away with lazy writing, reusing the same plot points for 20 years and being episodic as well as serialized at the same time (aka an easy justification for filler). It's up there with Dragon-ball imo, in terms of animes that get way more forgiveness (or "copium") from their fandoms then other animes that have more consistent standards that aren't reliant on nostalgia or cognitive nepotism, albeit the Dragon-ball fandom isn't quite as defensive as the Pokémon fandom (from personal experience).

It's still makes me laugh that people are still mad Ash lost the Kalos league or are mad Ash didn't get a rematch with Tobias (who isn't even a character just a plot point whose sole purpose is to beat Ash and then never be brought up again after the League arc lol).
 
Blah blah blah... the Pokémon anime is hard carried by nostalgia bait and brand power, which allows it to get away with lazy writing, reusing the same plot points for 20 years and being episodic as well as serialized at the same time (aka an easy justification for filler). It's up there with Dragon-ball imo, in terms of animes that get way more forgiveness (or "copium") from their fandoms then other animes that have more consistent standards that aren't reliant on nostalgia or cognitive nepotism, albeit the Dragon-ball fandom isn't quite as defensive as the Pokémon fandom (from personal experience).

It's still makes me laugh that people are still mad Ash lost the Kalos league or are mad Ash didn't get a rematch with Tobias (who isn't even a character just a plot point whose sole purpose is to beat Ash and then never be brought up again after the League arc lol).
Hey the anime was good between Kanto and Johto and the movies stayed good throughout Hohnen. I'm not going to pretend anything past that was good though, even kid me felt the drop in quality.
 
Also I'm going to say that Ash loosing wasn't inherently a bad thing. Like him loosing in Kanto made sense, Ash was a shit trainer who got like 5 of his badges due to outside circumstances or by plot armor. Like no, he should have lost, that just makes sense. Orange Island serves as a turning point where ash stops being (at least in principle) a shit trainer, and that why him continuing to loose sucked so hard, because by this point he shouldn't be jobbing so hard.
 
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Hey the anime was good between Kanto and Johto and the movies stayed good throughout Hohnen. I'm not going to pretend anything past that was good though, even kid me felt the drop in quality.
Don't get me wrong the Pokémon anime has plenty of high points that I enjoyed but when it comes to the low points it simply doesn't matter due to how ridiculously massive Pokémon is, who needs consistently high standards when people will blindly consume your product regardless?

Just imagine if other modem day animes used the Pokémon formula? (Having a new rival character/antagonist in each tournament arc, that beats up the MC and then is never heard from again after the arc and this happens for multiple seasons), I can almost guarantee that crap wouldn't fly in other shows but Pokémon got a free pass for years.

At least Ash is a Pokémon master and world champion now.
 
Caps shield withstood a hammer strike from King-Thor and a punch from Hulk, so he has that going for him I guess.
Which is why causals being casuals right? "Muh comics".

Sinnoh, X and Y, Sun and Moon, and Journeys are all amazing though
Pokémon has always been amazing. Worse periods are half-ass half-amazing.

Ash vs Lucy being called worse than Zoom vs Homura
First Ash vs Lucy is popular enough to get a Community Death Battle.


(So is Ash vs Yugi I would admit and yeah Ash vs Nate has slipped out in popularity)





Second. I know Zoom vs Homura is obscure but how is a matchup which has close connections, gets big thematic connections, is somehow debatable and easy to crop a choreography out "*ss"?
And for Ash vs Lucy,


I would say (and most people are saying) Ash vs Yugi is arguably a "classic matchup" to the point it is the matchup of monster summoner primary protagonists which helps selling in relation life trading card games - kind of the trading card game monster summoner primary protagonists version of Optimus Prime vs RX-78-2 Gundam.
I would say 1825 vs 2021 (the total votes for Ash Ketchum vs Lucy Heartfilia VS Ash Ketchum vs Yugi Muto at their respective Community Death Battle) is the rough popularity ratio I would see.

Speaking of which, Cole MacGrath vs Alex Mercer is overdue and after some point fans turn from "let's debate Cole MacGrath vs Alex Mercer" to "okay Cole stomps just animate it out already why wait until this is irrelevant anymore Rooster Teeth is really bad in business is it not".
 
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Don't get me wrong the Pokémon anime has plenty of high points that I enjoyed but when it comes to the low points it simply doesn't matter due to how ridiculously massive Pokémon is, who needs consistently high standards when people will blindly consume your product regardless?

Just imagine if other modem day animes used the Pokémon formula? (Having a new rival character/antagonist in each tournament arc, that beats up the MC and then is never heard from again after the arc and this happens for multiple seasons), I can almost guarantee that crap wouldn't fly in other shows but Pokémon got a free pass for years.

At least Ash is a Pokémon master and world champion now.
The biggest issue with Pokemon is unironically it's own success. There is no real reason for them to try and better themselves or try new things, Pokemon is the biggest franchise on earth and since their target market are children there's always someone whose willing to buy their products. Them making a good game or a them making a extremely mediocre game doesn't really matter if 10 year olds will get their parents to buy them either way. No longer are they a company who is throwing everything at the wall to see what sticks but an established brand who will do the bare minimum to make consistence profits. There has been some shift however, which I have theories on.

The games seems to have at least tried to improve themselves marginally which is likely due to GameFreak being scared that selling glorified 3ds games on a home console might eventually hurt their bottom line. They have to give the bare minimum try since they're game quality are getting to the point they might actually hurt their profit margins.

In the case of the anime I suspect the reason for developing Ash might be due to the Anime being less important in the international markets. Since the games get released world wide at around the same time it means that outside of Japan the anime will lag behind the release date of their receptive games. This would cause their value as advertisements to ween since by the time they release in per say America the games would have already been out for like a year. This can allow for some more experimentation since Game freak wouldn't care as much. I doubt the anime will ever truly be gone but I wouldn't be surprised if Ash's never ending adventure might be replaced eventually.
DJ_Khaled_Suffering_from_Success.jpg
 
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