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DEATH BATTLE! Fighting Animation Discussion Thread

I like that you made the image bigger and fixed classification/range, but can you please stop bolding the abilities? I just prefer them unbolded for my profiles. Also periods in P&A.
 
Diamond_Drone said:
Seems alright, though I don't like the link to the Spin Dash ability. Feel like that violates our commitment to the fighters scaling only to the fight animation.
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He uses it in the animation, I think it shows off everything besides surface scaling and maybe vibration manip. Even then, it’s cut off by Luigi punching him
 
Yeah I think Tails shouldn't have the Spin Dash ability on profile cause it doesn't show off things like Extrasensory Perception or Statistics Amplification in his episode iirc.
 
koopa3144 said:
Yeah I think Tails shouldn't have the Spin Dash ability on profile cause it doesn't show off things like Extrasensory Perception or Statistics Amplification in his episode iirc.
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The justification for extrasensory is being able to see while using the move, it also made him faster to the point he sent dust flying
 
MintyBoi1 said:
He uses it in the animation, I think it shows off everything besides surface scaling and maybe vibration manip. Even then, it’s cut off by Luigi punching him
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Still isn't a reason to use the Spin-Dash ability which violates our commitment of using scaling only shown in the fight animation.
MintyBoi1 said:
The justification for extrasensory is being able to see while using the move
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And the only reason how Tails managed to charged at Luigi is because he stayed in one place that Tails could spin-dashed into, not because he could see while spin-dashing. And the only reason why the spin-dash's users can see is because due to the "kinetic eyesight" and potentially "a bit of instinct", which isn't clealy stated in the fighting animation (Luigi and Tails uses their voice-lines from their games)
MintyBoi1 said:
dit also made him faster to the point he sent dust flying
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That's like saying car's tires should have the Spin Dash ability because it sends dust flying while building up speed.

Also you made two problems in the profile:
  1. You use stuff from the analysis itself that we shouldn't use that and only stuff shown in the fighting animation, such as the "scared of lightning", "Has an IQ of 300", "Flying too long can tire him out" even though though they weren't clearly or even stated/happened in the first place.
  2. Taills' Class M rating should changed back to Class K since he's only resisting the pulling force, not the launching force which is the reason why Luigi's Poltergust has a Class M rating due to the launching force of it. Even then, he still shown to be struggling while resisting it.
 
Flowerguy2 said:
Still isn't a reason to use the Spin-Dash ability which violates our commitment of using scaling only shown in the fight animation.

And the only reason how Tails managed to charged at Luigi is because he stayed in one place that Tails could spin-dashed into, not because he could see while spin-dashing. And the only reason why the spin-dash's users can see is because due to the "kinetic eyesight" and potentially "a bit of instinct", which isn't clealy stated in the fighting animation (Luigi and Tails uses their voice-lines from their games)

That's like saying car's tires should have the Spin Dash ability because it sends dust flying while building up speed.

Also you made two problems in the profile:
  1. You use stuff from the analysis itself that we shouldn't use that and only stuff shown in the fighting animation, such as the "scared of lightning", "Has an IQ of 300", "Flying too long can tire him out" even though though they weren't clearly or even stated/happened in the first place.
  2. Taills' Class M rating should changed back to Class K since he's only resisting the pulling force, not the launching force which is the reason why Luigi's Poltergust has a Class M rating due to the launching force of it. Even then, he still shown to be struggling while resisting it.
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I don’t see the violation here in listing an ability he’s shown to use just like in game. There’s no reason a logical fighter like Tails would use the move if he couldn’t see what he’s targeting; at some point you have to make some assumptions. It’s just like in the classic and gameboy games, it doesn’t need statements to be valid. I don’t think any Sonic game, animation, or other media outside of that Q&A stated this, yet it’s accepted. Show not tell.

He’s building up speed in place and rushing at an opponent. Like said on the ability page for Stat Amps, “The Spin Dash is a "power-packed maneuver"[4] involving breaking out into a "supercharged launch",[5] that involves spinning in place[6] to build up speed[7][8] and momentum for high-speed movement.”

The IQ thing is kinda supplemented by his equipment in the animation, I’m not sure why this is something that’d need to be removed. We have classifications not stated like Goku Black being Supreme Kai of Justice. Tails’ IQ is an integral part of his character, removing that would be odd. Getting technical, the tail slap he uses in the fight is called IQ300 attack. I will say, I thought he was getting tired while carrying Luigi, but he seemed more confused by his powerup, so I can remove that weakness.

A vacuum’s sucking force should be the same as its launching force I’d assume. It’s meant to suck things in. You wouldn’t say resisting a planet’s gravitational force isn’t impressive because the planet pushed something before. And Tails getting tired/struggling doesn’t prove he’s not Class M. Real life athletes struggle heavily while lifting.
 
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MintyBoi1 said:
He uses it in the animation, I think it shows off everything besides surface scaling and maybe vibration manip. Even then, it’s cut off by Luigi punching him
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From what I remember of the episode, here's my thoughts on the "shows off everything" thing:
  • Acrobatics: Pretty Self-Evident, obvious ability is obvious.
  • Bodily Weaponry/Natural Weaponry: Again, pretty obvious stuff. Though arguably it is just Unconventional, rather than the two types listed on the ability page.
  • Statistic Amplification: Now the disagreements start. Unless you wanna argue that Luigi is comparable to Tails not using the Spin Dash and also superior Tails using the Spin Dash (because he could completely halt it's momentum), then this rendition of the ability doesn't compare to the main continuity. Also Luigi reacts to the Spin Dash, something that shouldn't be possibly with the main continuity ability AT ALL.
  • Surface Scaling: As you said, it isn't shown off.
  • Damage Boost: Same issue as Stat Amp.
  • Homing Attack and Instinct: A completely different ability that is also not shown off.
  • Extrasensory Senses: Maybe??? But it isn't stated anywhere, not even the analysis (this episode was also way before the scan for this existed lol) or given it's usage in the episode, completely unnecessary for Tails to have at all.
  • Vibration Manipulation: There's no way for this to be showcased in the fight so... no.
  • Energy Manipulation: Maybe Kinetic Energy? But that requires making assumptions on how this rendition of the ability works and could be quite subjective.
  • Resistance to Speed Penalty: Luigi stopping the Spin Dash tells you everything about this. Oh and his final smash, pretty sure it had a clear effect on Tails.
So out of about 11 Abilities, I only agreed with... two, maybe three or four?
One more issue with linking to this page is that it contradicts our consistent notation of "only things in the fight" by including an ability that uses a ton of scans from media OUTSIDE of the Death Battle animation (which also came out after it) and is also an ability for one specific continuity of the Sonic franchise that isn't Death Battle, which could also confuse readers of the page on how we seemingly allowed this "contradiction". So even if you wanted to use that page, you couldn't because of that!
MintyBoi1 said:
I don’t see the violation here in listing an ability he’s shown to use just like in game. Theres no reason a logical fighter like Tails would use the move if he couldn’t see what he’s targeting, at some point you have to make some assumptions. It’s just like in the classic and gameboy games, it doesn’t need statements to be valid. I don’t think any Sonic game, animation, or media outside of that Q&A stated this, yet it’s accepted. Show not tell.
Click to expand...
...but by linking to a page that uses that scan as the reasoning, you make it seem that it is the same reason for DB! Tails to have it. Also the whole "it doesn't need statements" thing falls flat given the page literally has it because of a statement.
MintyBoi1 said:
The IQ thing is kinda supplemented by his equipment in the animation, I’m not sure why this is something that’d need to be removed. We have classifications not stated like Goku Black being Supreme Kai of Justice. Tails’ IQ is an integral part of his character, removing that would be odd. Getting technical, the tail slap he uses in the fight is called IQ300 attack. He’s also shown tiring while carrying Luigi.
Click to expand...
Even if the IQ thing doesn't really mean much in the terms of "calculating someones intelligence", this is still a thing that needs to be directly stated to be applied to Tails. "Integral part" thing falls apart because Batman, a much better comparison to Tails than Goku Black's classifications, has different intelligence ratings per Key. Also using the name of a technique described simply as "He attacks with his two tails." to reinforce the 300 IQ thing is funny to me, but it also requires technical knowledge and overthinking (this is a rather basic fan animation from the early years of youtube) to even come to this conclusion.

Anyways for the LS thing, maybe a "Class K, possibly Class M" seems more fitting? Luigi does have a few moments where he does overpower the fox in this stat and Tails also sabotaged the Vaccum prior to the feat being performed, it could entirely be possibly he made the vaccum weaker in case he ever needed it or by the virtue of turning it into a bomb (also funny that Luigi and Tails overpower Mario and Sonic in terms of LS and SPEED, not accounting for power-ups or superforms)
 
It’s either I list only the specific things about the Spin Dash shown, or I just keep it as it as since it makes sense it’d have all the standard abilities and it already showed most of them in the fight.
Diamond_Drone said:
  • Statistic Amplification: Now the disagreements start. Unless you wanna argue that Luigi is comparable to Tails not using the Spin Dash and also superior Tails using the Spin Dash (because he could completely halt it's momentum), then this rendition of the ability doesn't compare to the main continuity. Also Luigi reacts to the Spin Dash, something that shouldn't be possibly with the main continuity ability AT ALL.
  • Surface Scaling: As you said, it isn't shown off.
  • Damage Boost: Same issue as Stat Amp.
  • Homing Attack and Instinct: A completely different ability that is also not shown off.
  • Extrasensory Senses: Maybe??? But it isn't stated anywhere, not even the analysis (this episode was also way before the scan for this existed lol) or given it's usage in the episode, completely unnecessary for Tails to have at all.
  • Vibration Manipulation: There's no way for this to be showcased in the fight so... no.
  • Energy Manipulation: Maybe Kinetic Energy? But that requires making assumptions on how this rendition of the ability works and could be quite subjective.
  • Resistance to Speed Penalty: Luigi stopping the Spin Dash tells you everything about this. Oh and his final smash, pretty sure it had a clear effect on Tails.
So out of about 11 Abilities, I only agreed with... two, maybe three or four?
One more issue with linking to this page is that it contradicts our consistent notation of "only things in the fight" by including an ability that uses a ton of scans from media OUTSIDE of the Death Battle animation (which also came out after it) and is also an ability for one specific continuity of the Sonic franchise that isn't Death Battle, which could also confuse readers of the page on how we seemingly allowed this "contradiction". So even if you wanted to use that page, you couldn't because of that!
Click to expand...
Luigi had distance from Tails and used a special move, it’s clear he got a well timed and lucky hit. Doesn’t mean Tails isn’t amping himself. We can assume Surface Scaling via just looking at the speed Tails goes. Damage Boost also seems reasonable going with the basic functions of the ability, building up power and tearing through enemies with rapid spinning. Homing and Instinct are pretty self evident considering Tails was confident he could hit Luigi in the first place, Extrasensory too. For those abilities to not be there, we have to assume Tails is a complete idiot which obviously isn’t true. The vibration is limited and only shown by Surge, so it’s not a reason to deny the ability. Seems like charging Kinetic Energy so that’s fair game. I don’t know what you mean by Luigi hitting Tails disproving reduction to speed. Also Tails was in the Negative Zone for all of a few seconds and still outspeeding Luigi, so it makes sense he didn’t need to resort to the Spin Dash. It likely would’ve let him escape though, but that would leave him vulnerable while he’s charging it.

It shouldn’t break Death Battle rules just because outside sources have more proper explanations for the ability. An animation can’t explain everything by itself, that’s why we’re dissecting them in the first place. The animation clearly pulled from Main Game Continuity with everything Tails did, I don’t see why someone would be confused he has an ability he shows, nor do I see a contradiction.
Diamond_Drone said:
...but by linking to a page that uses that scan as the reasoning, you make it seem that it is the same reason for DB! Tails to have it. Also the whole "it doesn't need statements" thing falls flat given the page literally has it because of a statement.

Even if the IQ thing doesn't really mean much in the terms of "calculating someones intelligence", this is still a thing that needs to be directly stated to be applied to Tails. "Integral part" thing falls apart because Batman, a much better comparison to Tails than Goku Black's classifications, has different intelligence ratings per Key. Also using the name of a technique described simply as "He attacks with his two tails." to reinforce the 300 IQ thing is funny to me, but it also requires technical knowledge and overthinking (this is a rather basic fan animation from the early years of youtube) to even come to this conclusion.

Anyways for the LS thing, maybe a "Class K, possibly Class M" seems more fitting? Luigi does have a few moments where he does overpower the fox in this stat and Tails also sabotaged the Vaccum prior to the feat being performed, it could entirely be possibly he made the vaccum weaker in case he ever needed it or by the virtue of turning it into a bomb (also funny that Luigi and Tails overpower Mario and Sonic in terms of LS and SPEED, not accounting for power-ups or superforms)
Click to expand...
Extrasensory is supplemented by a statement, I don’t think that’s what outright grants it. Just the action of precisely hitting someone while rolling in a ball should mean you are accurate and being accurate usually requires some form of sight. If Tails couldn’t see while using it, I’m not sure why he would use it. On the point of Luigi not moving, that’s more him getting past the ability than the ability itself having a flaw.

I suppose I can remove the 300 IQ thing since it doesn’t mean much to the intelligence rating anyways. Though I don’t see where Luigi overpowering Tails in LS comes from when he only ever got through his defenses with attacks and couldn’t resist being picked up and carried by Tails. Tails never messed with the Poltergust until after he resisted its pull either.
 
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Ok so Homing Attack meant the move, not the ability, so that can be removed. So that’s a good 6 or so abilities that can stay if I remove the Spin Dash page itself
 
You guys think this is calculable? I’d like a concrete LS rating for Natsu and Ace to increase matchup potential
 
Looking at Gojo’s profile, I’m thinking some of his abilities are inaccurate. Infinity is described as a forcefield which while it is that at a glance, isn’t really the full scope of the power. I understand it’s not explained in depth during the fight, but his barrier should work the same it does in the show, infinitely dividing the speed of attacks rather than just making a forcefield between them. Even the way it’s shown in the animation depicts Makima’s katana slowly approaching Gojo rather than completely halting. Also Reverse Cursed Technique isn’t mentioned at all which is the sole reason Gojo was able to heal his severed leg. I don’t really wanna do it since I’m no Gojo fan and his abilities complicated, but I hope we can fix this.
 
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Spinoirr said:
Why doesn't goku vs superman 1 and 2 goku not have

1. Cold resistance for flying through Clark's frost breath
2. Heat resistance for being fine being slammed into the Earth's core
3. Absorbing the spirit bomb and taking energy from the sun for a spirit bomb
Click to expand...
know what i'll add theses myself
 
So I was looking at Solid Snake's profile and it looks good, but I want to change one thing. I don't think he should have supernatural willpower

Continuing to fight after getting shot a few times is impressive, but not superhuman. This guy got shot 27 times (though only 16 actually punctured him), and was still able to kill his attackers and save a family before getting treatment. This guy tanked 37 bullets and bayonet injuries, and was still able to run and fight and save his mens life

So although its impressive and can warrent a decent stamina rating, it's not superhuman, as people irl have done it before
 
If a character uses a ability on death battle but they don't explain it but it works exactly like it does in the series they're from can I list it as the same ability?
 
Spinoirr said:
If a character uses a ability on death battle but they don't explain it but it works exactly like it does in the series they're from can I list it as the same ability?
Click to expand...
I think it is kind of a case-by-case basis

What character/ability are you planning on doing this too?
 
Also someone should calc A Static getting so pissed he shut off a city and/or B Static making Miles draw in entire buildings and Miles tanking said buildings before pushing them all away. This is some serious upgrade worthy stuff
 
Ok correction, according to the wiki those were just vents. Still impressive enough to at least warrant a small building I’d say
 
What would you guys consider Static’s arm being turned to electricity and then reattached? Just electricity manip or maybe energy manip/inorganic physiology?
 
Versions of Spider-Man are cursed to be blown up. Peter got blown up like 5 times against Batman and Miguel and Miles died by explosion
 
Tracer sandbox. I’m noticing some problems with speed, Scout’s travel/combat speed should be upgraded since he reacted to and outran gunfire
 
MintyBoi1 said:
Scout’s travel/combat speed should be upgraded since he reacted to and outran gunfire
Click to expand...
Looking at what you've linked, that doesn't look like "outrunning" to me but also seems more like Aim Dodging to me than anything, personally. Tracer is quite far away from Scout too so assuming it's Subsonic, as a minimum without a calc, is unlikely to happen (though given what I've calced of similar nature, it's still not happening). It's better either at Peak Human, where's it's currently at, or Superhuman if you really want to stretch it beyond human capability.

As for the profile:
  • AP needs to be better formatted, right now it looks like Tracer scales to her own bomb which is... no obviously given it's purpose. just a higher rating and talking about "harming Scout" would suffice
  • Speed is decent, though I already disagreed with base Subsonic speed and also her attack speed being "Transonic to Supersonic (Pulse Pistols should be comparable to normal ones)" should be changed as it's comparable to... something that's normal but also non-existant... Okay?
And that's about it, or atleast what stands out to me here.
 
Diamond_Drone said:
As for the profile:
  • AP needs to be better formatted, right now it looks like Tracer scales to her own bomb which is... no obviously given it's purpose. just a higher rating and talking about "harming Scout" would suffice
  • Speed is decent, though I already disagreed with base Subsonic speed and also her attack speed being "Transonic to Supersonic (Pulse Pistols should be comparable to normal ones)" should be changed as it's comparable to... something that's normal but also non-existant... Okay?
And that's about it, or atleast what stands out to me here.
Click to expand...
I can’t find anything for Tracer’s AP without Pulse Bomb. Maybe I can just scale it to her dura and put a higher with Pulse Bomb. And what are you trying to say attack speed should be replaced with?
 
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