DC Gods Ability Addition

[Teezar]

Do they go there when they die and revive themselves? Yes

Never stated,that's headcanon. They only get revived by the source when they die.

Are they are revived by The Source?

Its stated when gods die,they return to the source to be revived again (they are literally tied to the source,they need it's existence to revive).

And why are you acting like The Source reviving them would = type 8?

Other/most characters type 8 are 100% similar to this.

The Source doesn't make them go into itself, they go by themselves, and they return by themselves. You think that there's evidence that The Source is reviving them but can you mind pointing it out?

If they can revive themselves,I don't see why they need any reliance to the source to return.
Plus,if they are dead how will they go to it by themselves? That doesn't even make sense at all.

The fact all gods have reliance to the source already makes it type 8.

 

[Eficiente]

Never stated,that's headcanon. They only get revived by the source when they die.

You're the one whose saying a headcanon, it's not said that the Source revives them like you say while me just saying that vague thing is true. "Revive themselves" doesn't necessarily mean they do it by themselves, just that it happens, and that happens.

Its stated when gods die,they return to the source to be revived again (they are literally tied to the source,they need it's existence to revive).

You're the one saying that they're "tied to" the Source and "need" it to revive, as far as we know it can just be a habit they have, we don't know if going anywhere else makes it impossible for them to do the same.

Other/most characters type 8 are 100% similar to this.

Then try to chance the wording in the type 8 Immor., do not let it be vague and try to apply it to characters whose powers don't fit what it says.

If they can revive themselves,I don't see why they need any reliance to the source to return.
Plus,if they are dead how will they go to it by themselves? That doesn't even make sense at all.

The fact all gods have reliance to the source already makes it type 8.

Makes as much sense as any superpower, the gods and Darkseid go there by themselves somehow, I said that they do because it's stated that they did so, therefore it doesn't matter how you think it doesn't make sense. People would rather remove the agency characters have in walking to say that more powerful things help them if it makes things more OP.

Yeah. But then again by that logic what stops someone with an OP regen to have type 8 Immor. based on their own regen and body? It's always some ill-defined thing that makes it look like one has to go and destroy it while users claim the same when in reality looking at how things works for 2 seconds gives more simple alternatives. Here one just has to end the already dead gods before they go to the Source and be done with it, with no need for the Source itself to stop existing for the gods to die, that's excessive.

Same problem with characters with type 8 via some other character helping them out, can't a foe cut or intercept the communication? Can't it hax or "do something" to the helping character? The latter may just be some nonworthy thing not even close to making the character not exist anymore, yet it gets rid of the type 8 anyway.

 

[Bernkastelll]

Yeah. But then again by that logic what stops someone with an OP regen to have type 8 Immor. based on their own regen and body? It's always some ill-defined thing that makes it look like one has to go and destroy it while users claim the same when in reality looking at how things works for 2 seconds gives more simple alternatives. Here one just has to end the already dead gods before they go to the Source and be done with it, with no need for the Source itself to stop existing for the gods to die, that's excessive.

Same problem with characters with type 8 via some other character helping them out, can't a foe cut or intercept the communication? Can't it hax or "do something" to the helping character? The latter may just be some nonworthy thing not even close to making the character not exist anymore, yet it gets rid of the type 8 anyway.

Thats not relevant because that is how the wiki treats immortality 8, like, Akuto not dying because TLOI doesnt allow, anyways

 

[Eficiente]

I guess, but I wouldn't fill profiles with an ill-defined power. If it gets clarified then 1 of this things will happen:

• It gets strict and many profiles lose it.
• It now says that any and all outside facters that help a bit on any type of Immor., or the process for them to happen, makes the thing one a character has reliance on to have type 8. So hundreds of characters get the power due to this low standards and things get strict anyway.

 

[Teezar]

You're the one saying that they're "tied to" the Source and "need" it to revive, as far as we know it can just be a habit they have, we don't know if going anywhere else makes it impossible for them to do the same.

Cause its already stated they return to the source when dead. Anything anyone says again is just pure headcanon.

Then try to chance the wording in the type 8 Immor., do not let it be vague and try to apply it to characters whose powers don't fit what it says.

If other type 8 fits,then this should. They are basically the same thing. (But your trying to say they revive themselves without the source which is not what the scans say).

the gods and Darkseid go there by themselves somehow

Somehow (shows you aren't even sure,yourself).

Makes as much sense as any superpower, the gods and Darkseid go there by themselves somehow, I said that they do because it's stated that they did so, therefore it doesn't matter how you think it doesn't make sense. People would rather remove the agency characters have in walking to say that more powerful things help them if it makes things more OP.

From what's been shown in the comics, they need the source for a constant revival once they die. No statement was made all gods can do it without the source.

 

[Firestorm808]

Type 4 seems fine. I'm not too familiar with the specifics of Type 8.

 

[Teezar]

The type 8 given to most characters on this wiki ain't different from this one.

https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Justice_League:_The_Darkseid_War:_Shazam!_Vol_1_1 the comics database.

https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Gods gods profile DC database.

 

[Antvasima]

Eficiente makes sense to me. Type 8 is probably misleading to add.

Anyway, Eficiente and Firestorm808, should I delete the Zeus page?

 

[Bernkastelll]

• It now says that any and all outside facters that help a bit on any type of Immor., or the process for them to happen, makes the thing one a character has reliance on to have type 8. So hundreds of characters get the power due to this low standards and things get strict anyway.

I mean, if a character cant die because something doesnt allow it, it is type 8

 

[Antvasima]

They do die, and it has been established that even though gods in DC Comics return to The Source upon death, they cannot return from it on their own, if I remember Jack Kirby's and John Byrne's New Gods runs correctly.

 

[Bernkastelll]

They do die, and it has been established that even though gods in DC Comics return to The Source upon death, they cannot return from it on their own, if I remember Jack Kirby's

I know, when I said ''dont allow to die'', I mean a complete death, not only be random killed and its done, a example of it is TLOI, that will always revive Akuto when he dies, which is type 8, on new gods case, they cant be completely killed because they relies on Source to revive

Anyways, im fine with it being type 4, but it should be both 4 and 8

 

[Teezar]

They do die, and it has been established that even though gods in DC Comics return to The Source upon death, they cannot return from it on their own, if I remember Jack Kirby's and John Byrne's New Gods runs correctly.

Many characters are given type 8 for something similar to this.

 

[Firestorm808]

DC gods returning to the Source and getting reborn is akin to people on Earth going to the afterlife and getting reincarnated.

 

[Teezar]

Their's is a constant reliance. Cause they are reliant on the source to revive.
Humans on earth is another case itself.

 

[Antvasima]

DC gods returning to the Source and getting reborn is akin to people on Earth going to the afterlife and getting reincarnated.

Exactly, with the exception that it is much harder for them to leave.

It is just the place that their spirits go to after death.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

That's vague. Do they go there when they die and revive themselves? Yes. Are they are revived by The Source? We don't know, maybe they are or maybe it comes out of their own abilities. And why are you acting like The Source reviving them would = type 8? It's not portrayed that way, The Source doesn't make them go into itself, they go by themselves, and they return by themselves. You think that there's evidence that The Source is reviving them but can you mind pointing it out?

Yes I think there is other evidence like when Spectre kills Darkseid and Darkseid comes back and says he's protected by higher forces or something.

 

[Antvasima]

That's not how these things are usually handled. Darkseid made a semi-meta reference to that he is a part of the natural order, as the eternal nemesis to the forces of light, as the symbolic tyrannic opposition that they serve as a rallying counterpoint against.

Normally, the gods just stay dead until some other author revives them for another storyline.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

That seems like one interpretation but just from that statement alone I don't see how we can derive it as a meta-reference objectively. Unless other stuff was involved.

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

IIRC as someone who has read the 2001 Spectre run I think I remembered what happened, see in this story Hal Jordan Spectre goes to Apokolips to save this girl who had been enslaved by Darkseid who does butt heads with The Spectre. The Spectre but Darkseid is revived, claiming that the forces which The Spectre serves won't allow his death. Now to not the clog the thread with unessecary filler, the gist that happens is that Metron directs The Spectre to seek answers from The Source which takes the form of Oa's Central Battery, and in a nutshell The Source that Darkseid represents the concept of evil and for good to exist there must be evil in a sort of ying yang relationship.
The issue though is that The Source doesn't outright state that it revives Darkseid himself, and one potential interpretation is that it could be due to the nature of existence and how things must exist for others to but there is mention of higher forces so who knows

 

[Greenshifter]

They do die, and it has been established that even though gods in DC Comics return to The Source upon death, they cannot return from it on their own, if I remember Jack Kirby's and John Byrne's New Gods runs correctly.

Seems non-combat applicable type 8 or maybe type 4 to me.

 

[Teezar]

It is just the place that their spirits go to after death.

Yes,that's why its type 8. They get constantly revived by it upon death,Plus the source is a being. The source wall is a place.

 

[Hellbeast]

That's not how these things are usually handled. Darkseid made a semi-meta reference to that he is a part of the natural order, as the eternal nemesis to the forces of light, as the symbolic tyrannic opposition that they serve as a rallying counterpoint against.

I mean it being semi meta means nothing.

It’s something he confirmed in universe and it’s something that I believed is already on the profile anyway

 

[Antvasima]

IIRC as someone who has read the 2001 Spectre run I think I remembered what happened, see in this story Hal Jordan Spectre goes to Apokolips to save this girl who had been enslaved by Darkseid who does butt heads with The Spectre. The Spectre but Darkseid is revived, claiming that the forces which The Spectre serves won't allow his death. Now to not the clog the thread with unessecary filler, the gist that happens is that Metron directs The Spectre to seek answers from The Source which takes the form of Oa's Central Battery, and in a nutshell The Source that Darkseid represents the concept of evil and for good to exist there must be evil in a sort of ying yang relationship.
The issue though is that The Source doesn't outright state that it revives Darkseid himself, and one potential interpretation is that it could be due to the nature of existence and how things must exist for others to but there is mention of higher forces so who knows

That's how I remember things as well.

The Source serves as the afterlife for the DC Comics gods. That's it. It does not continuously automatically revive them.

 

[Teezar]

That's how I remember things as well.

The Source serves as the afterlife for the DC Comics gods. That's it. It does not continuously automatically revive them.

Based on justice league:darkseid war: shazam. States otherwise.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

IIRC as someone who has read the 2001 Spectre run I think I remembered what happened, see in this story Hal Jordan Spectre goes to Apokolips to save this girl who had been enslaved by Darkseid who does butt heads with The Spectre. The Spectre but Darkseid is revived, claiming that the forces which The Spectre serves won't allow his death. Now to not the clog the thread with unessecary filler, the gist that happens is that Metron directs The Spectre to seek answers from The Source which takes the form of Oa's Central Battery, and in a nutshell The Source that Darkseid represents the concept of evil and for good to exist there must be evil in a sort of ying yang relationship.
The issue though is that The Source doesn't outright state that it revives Darkseid himself, and one potential interpretation is that it could be due to the nature of existence and how things must exist for others to but there is mention of higher forces so who knows

Yeah but this doesn't necessarily mean that it's just a meta-reference to the writers and authors. It can be just some in-universe philosophy as to why evil exists in the first place, like why would this "higher authority" allow it to exist and keep it in existence. The answer they attempt to give from my reading is "without evil there would only be good and if there is onyl good there is basically no experience".

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

That's how I remember things as well.

The Source serves as the afterlife for the DC Comics gods. That's it. It does not continuously automatically revive them.

Yeah The Source uses the analogy of the universe being like a battery, there must be both a positive and a negative charge for it to function and Darkseid happens to represent that negative charge.
The weird thing here though, is that The Source doesn't outright state that it revives Darkseid due to this nessacary nature but Darkseid alludes to higher forces beyond The Spectre not allowing him to die so I can see where type 8 might come from

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

Yeah but this doesn't necessarily mean that it's just a meta-reference to the writers and authors. It can be just some in-universe philosophy as to why evil exists in the first place, like why would this "higher authority" allow it to exist and keep it in existence. The answer they attempt to give from my reading is "without evil there would only be good and if there is onyl good there is basically no experience".

I didn't say it was a meta reference to the writers, I'm simply giving context behind Darkseid's statement from that comic. And yes I am aware of the evil must exist for good to exist thing because the comic explains that

 

[Antvasima]

Based on justice league:darkseid war: shazam. States otherwise.

Can somebody tell me exactly what was stated in this comic book please? It may be a retcon that contradicts the previous information that we knew about this.

 

[Teezar]

Stated by anapel: In defeat,He return to the source as we all gods do.
States by wizard: gods don't die. They return to the source.

You can simply read the scans or just read the entire comics of justice league: darkseid war:shazam.

 

[Teezar]

Bump

 

[Teezar]

Bump

 

[Antvasima]

Regardless of the phrasing, in practice and function the Source evidently
simply serves as a sort of afterlife for the DC Comics deities. We should preferably drop this issue.

Is there anything else that we need to do here?

 

[Teezar]

I knew you wouldn't accept it anyways. Anything you say....I don't really care anymore.

I don't know when a being will turn into some afterlife and revive the wizard nigh immediately. But your correct, I ain't pushing this further.

 

[Deleted member 2530]

Hard disagree. The Wizard like other Gods who bestowed Billy with their power called Billy inside the Source. To stop Yuga Khan from escaping the Source using Billy and The Wizards staff as conduit. The wizard himself says that he summoned Billy to save him. From the comic, it seemed that the Gods can't actually revive without external help.

 

[Teezar]

it seemed that the Gods can't actually revive without external help.

Exactly they can just revive themselves. But I don't really care anymore. Whether they are given type 4 or type 8.

 

[Antvasima]

The issue is just that "do not truly die" basically means the same thing as for any setting with automatic afterlives, which fits with what has been established previously regarding The Source.

Anyway, should we apply type 4 immortality or not?

 

[Deleted member 2530]

Depends. The Gods are unable to revive themselves as shown in the comic. In the comic, Shazam's power was necessary to revive. That is what Yuga Khan needed and that is how the wizard escaped with Billy.

 

[Teezar]

It was stated yuga Khan was trapped by the source upon his revival. They can't reincarnate themselves. They need to source to return.

 

[Teezar]

Bump

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, but the Source does not automatically revive them either going by what has been established during DC Comics history.