I personally think Source should be High-1a due to transcending and sitting as Supreme entity in Cosmic Ladder of Hierarchy. Also, 5d entities has R>F to anyone who had read corrupted comic books. Also, can you give a thought on my claim?
The thing with the new tier is that things can get the tier easier, but in turn, they lose it faster ie anti-feat.
That's really not enough.
No, what I said was that only the Monitor-Mind, the Overvoid exists outside the Source Wall given that anything else would be a contradiction to the Multiversity Map description. So the Gentry and Empty Hand coming from outside Creation is a bit ridiculous, it's explained pretty well in Ultra Comics, they're all native to Earth-33.
The non-dual omniawarness is meant to be the Overvoid. Which later story says is an immaculate perfection of the Light, thus new information contradicts that's it’s non-dual.
Then, what has been accepted is Presence > Light of Creation.
I don't think The Source should be High 1-A since it has not been shown to be ontologically superior to the Greater Omniverse/"Infinite", unless the scan that the universe is a reverie dreamed by The Source applies to the Greater Omniverse as well, but I highly doubt it.
Would you happen to have a source for this scan?
I'm neutral on Low 1-A Unseen Council, but everything else looks fine to me.
how? These entities are existing beyond the binary machine/Universe which work with their own properties and pov of Zatanna, when she was is lower reality have to break through the border of comic panel to access the higher reality. Like I said before, they can fully control the universe.
U have to understand that Multiversity map is like draw by Super-judge of the multiverse ( Nix Uotan ), when he encountered with the whole Gentry, he doesn't seems to understand who are they and there's no specific mentioned that Gentry from earth-33. Claiming like Gentry is from earth-33 is basically saying Earth-33 > the whole multiverse/rainbow spectrum. Also, can you provide a scan that Gentry came from earth-33?
The idea of Omni-awareness and non-dual void was published in 1991 by Grant Morrison. He just brought back that idea to 21s comics, the concept of non-dual void and Overvoid very similar but it doesn't mean they are same. Overvoid doesn't know idea of flaw which means Overvoid isn't omni-awareness and Overvoid represent as white page that against ink/flaw. The only thing that makes Overvoid and Primordial Void very similar is concept of Non-dual.
Seems like u don't understand, Why would I do a CRT for Presence = Light? All I need to prove Presence = Light is just two scan.
Well, I still think The Source should be High-1a due to cosmic ladder that existing in Greater Omniverse, I think " Dreaming the universe " would be good scan to upgrade Source as High-1a like I said before.
Sorry if It was derailing but before concluding this thread, I think we should also tackle the Outsiders 2023 comic. Outsiders 2023 featured Drummer, one of the century babies, who is immune to timeline changes. She was transported into Orrery and forced to watch all timeline changes since the start of metaversal changes. Ever since she came to DC, she was dreaming about a being beyond the Orrery who knew everything about below and reading them. There's also no snowflake in Orrery which is interesting becuz we know Snowflake is in the bleed from wildstorm comics. Snowflake was used to called 196833 dimensional space and with each one of the blades are universes. It is also stated in wildstorm that 196833 are universes. So, they are not spatial dimensions.
Peak thread.
I should note that the Source wouldn't be High 1-A even if shown to be ontologically superior to the Greater Omniverse/"Infinite", as being ontologically superior to a 1-A just nets you one more layer into 1-A. You'd need to be ontologically superior to the entire framework differentiating 1-A layers to be High 1-A.
Please refer to this.
Nvm I'll wrote that again.
This is my understanding of the Source being the highest authority, and the hierarchy is a ladder leading directly to it. According to Metron, no matter how great one's position in the hierarchy, they are still subordinate to the Source. Non-dual void/God possibly should be 0 even if it's not it should be high 1-a.
This isn't proposed and is not the time to be giving suggestions. Just put your vote on whether you agree or not to the current proposal.
Totally Disagree
What about your vote? Since there are already three mods agreeing to this: @Antvasima @Firestorm808 @Elizio33 thus if you vote to agree then it would be a unanimous win and the CRT would be officially accepted.
I only have forum moderation rights in the Joke Battles Wiki subsection, not the main one.
Typically, if the OP doesn't change his/her mind. They're vote automatically goes as agree.
Still waiting for consensus
Yes. 1-A for The Hands might be fine as they exist on the same level of existence as the Overvoid (there reside there) and they wields the Connective Energy born of The Source (this includes the Speed Force) Perpetua was able to tore pieces from the Overvoid to create her three sons (maybe the Overvoid allowed Perpetua to do this?) and held the nearly finished state of her Multiverse in her hands (this one doesn't matter for 1-A)
Given the context and story, it's pretty clear to me that the Overvoid didn't do anything. So that's why I suggest they just exist on the same level of existence given that the Hands literally exist and come from the Void when their life force was given to them by the Source of All Things.
A rule of thumb for Low 1-A comes from is being superior to time, space, and dimensionality within the framework of quantitative superiority. So Monitor Sphere doesn't count since there's still the aforementioned time. The Dark Multiverse being a smaller subset of all the possible space of the Multiverse ie the Omniverse wouldn't suggest it isn't Low 1-A.
I don't think Scott Snyder and James Tynion IV dismissed the idea that the Overvoid is a conscious void simply because they didn't mention it their his stories and even if they did, it doesn't really matter since the Overvoid was depicted as a conscious void again a year later. I agree that the story doesn't imply that the Overvoid let Perpetua take pieces from it. Also, a 1-A Perpetua would mean upgrading the Monitor Brothers and the Sixth Dimension to 1-A as well since Perpetua has shown no signs of transcendence over them.
There's always a loophole. The main idea of 1-A isn't even qualitative superiority, it is actually R>F. If Perpetua and the Monitor Brothers(also the Sixth Dimesnion) somehow are more real than reality itself then it can be 1-A thus its qualitative state is higher than the Multiverse, but that's the catch, is there an R>F scan for them viewing the Multiverse as fictional?
The Flash story portrays the Source Wall as the highest vibraton before one enters The Infinite, and the Garden of Shadows is the lowest frequency yet beyond space and time since concept lies deeper than space and time.
Well, Mister Mxyzptlk reduced the very art to sketches when he unimagimed the Multiverse which Alpheus reference to as the "fabric of things". (Even the pencil was affected) and Alpheus asked Mar Novu if Earth was a fiction of the Sphere of the Gods, though i doubt this one matter since any realm of the Sphere of the Gods is fiction shaped by beliefs and imaginations through the Collective Unconscious.
That's not a bad way of looking at it.
Well, Mxy was in the Multiverse doing it. Rather, the Multiverse is built as the foundation of things, and the biggest factor was destroying Prime Earth. So him destroying the fabric of things is just in reference to destroying one of the core foundations of the Orrery: Earth-0. I wouldn't count that as R>F.
For Mxy. The big deal was more reducing the art to sketches and affect the pencil than anything else.
I'm still not against “possibly 0” for the Presence/God. Swamp Thing #75 depiction is literally how 0 are defined: non-dual, cosmologically independent, immutable, and exist above everything including all forms of duality.
It’s meta, but that’s about it.
Yes. Also there is also the scan of the universe being a reverie dreamed by The Source.
Even so, even the Source has a point of origin. So it is impossible for it to be 0.
The Presence/God has a possible Tier 0. The Source is an aspect of God and is not Tier 0.
