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DC Cosmology: Possibly Massive Upgrade(s) based on POTM's Blog

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Blog Location:

The Blog can be found here. All credit goes to the guy honestly: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:princeOfTheMorning/DC_Cosmology_-_From_a_Holistic_Stance_on_the_Overall_Cano

Explanation

I do apologize as his blog wasn't meant for an upgrade, but considering the implications I truly did want to go into it fully. Now I do Now while there are many things that would need to be expounded upon to fully get an Upgrade, there are quite a few things which can be agreed upon in this blog:

  • Even if the Sphere isn't Platonic, there is a lot of scans hinting that the nature of the Sphere is very blatantly described as 'beyond the concept of time & space' in relation to everything prior [which to me seems 1-A even without the platonic stuff backing it up or at least on a Tier 1 level but leaning towards 1-A here] , this is going to describe exactly who scales to the Sphere and above.
And in all honesty , there is honestly a lot of people who would be upgraded by the blog's contents. This thread's whole purpose is to get everyone whose affected by the blog's information updated in one nice, massive, neat package. So let's start off with one I know. I'll add some as the thread goes on and others give feedback. But I wanted to start on a certain individual who undoubtedly would be affected by these changes.

Timothy Hunter (Post-Crisis)

Timothy Supporting Scans

SotG4


  • Hecate, with her powers unlocked, is described to be trying to rewrite the powers of the Book of Magic, implying she doesn't have the power 'yet' to do do since she's doing the Pillars one at a time as noted by Circe. The Pillars are described to be all of Nature [Green] , Life , and Death... [Basically the Elemental Realms] . This is only with 2 of the Pillars. The third is the Sphere of the Gods as described in context. Meaning she has to fill them up one Pillar at a time. Meaning whatever tier the Sphere is, the Book would easily scale to it.
  • This would essentially mean that Timothy scales to the feats Hecate has already accomplished, and each of the Pillars, as The Books of Magic is all Four Pillars of Existence
Books of Magic being the Four Pillars
  • Meaning this would retroactively only scale to the Post-Crisis version of the Books of Magic, which Timothy scales to as the Books of Magic are his very own power. Also the fact the heavy implication even without the Books, Timothy when he still had magic was superior to the Books of Magic as Wonder Woman clearly states here:
Referring to his power and the Books of Magic as one and the same
Meaning, Timothy should scale >= The Books of Magic, even without them being his power, by nature of Wonder Woman's statement about his power. Constantine described Timothy , along with his father, to be mandating power never seen before or imagined by his own terms , and as of this point: He has seen Yggdrassil and knows of the power of the Book of Magic, which would also be changed to a higher tier from it's current tier. Also remember at this point neither of them were anywhere near their peak:

Timothy Hunter feat pt 1
Timothy Hunter feat pt 2
Lords of Order, more specifically Nabu

Nabu's Feats.

This is going to be using some feats from Justice League Dark:

Nabu is described as capable of ending the Sphere of the Gods:

Nabu could destroy the Sphere of the Gods
Here is the power he's described to have, predating the Multiverse and being able to rearrange it [The World] anyway he desires:

Lords of Order
In which World as defined by Nabu and his Vessel's words is very interchangeably with the whole of Creation:

World is Described interchangably with Mutliverse directly in Dark Multiverse
Outright confirming the Lords of Order, unhinged by human emotion, can unravel the Sphere of the Gods:

Outright confirming the Lords of Order have the power to unravel the Sphere of the Gods
Mordru not only confirms his power over the World [which world interchangeable with the Multiverse]

Mordu is more than capable of ripping the Universe -which in this case is the totality of the Multiverse- alive
But also gives Wonder Woman and Zatanna power enough to empower 5 people into Lords of Chaos, which if Lords of Chaos and Lords of Order fought were described as the following:

Lord of Chaos Order Scan 1
Lord of Chaos Order Scan 2
Lord of Chaos Order Scan 3
Other Characters who'd likely scale to the Upgrades:

  • Hecate
  • Endless (Would likely become purely 1-A if we still cross Vertigo and DC feats as well)
The other characters will hopefully be analyzed in this thread and concluded in one giant thread.
 
Adding to this isn't the Bleed being upgraded thanks to the cosmology blog?


so that could add to Darkseid being upgraded
 
Wow. I got Alonik's attention.

Anyways, I honestly don't know Alonik. I feel Timothy's upgrade is firm enough that an upgrade from this thread is inevitable. I'm more worried about the massive upgrade to the Lords of Order & Chaos. They definitely were portrayed Tier 1 during the Justice League Dark event.
 
I am too tired and overworked to help out myself. Sorry.
 
Some corrections:

Dr. Fate didn't say that his power predated the Multiverse. I'm not sure what scale of the definition he is using when he describes reassembling it.

Mordru only said that his power can rip a universe in half.

Do we say that Nabu has his own Godhead now?

In anycase, we need to establish what worlds/places are 2-A to 1-A in comparison to eachother before we can say that the Sphere should be 1-A.
 
Okay then. I will deconstruct your arguments about Mordru after we deal with the more pressing issue .

That I can agree on at least. We should start with analyzing the blog and it's contents, then focus on Who scales to it then ?
 
Timothy Hunter honestly does deserve an upgrade to 1-A. I might need to reread his series to look into the possibility of different keys, seeing as he is less experienced during certain parts of his journey, but I'm pretty sure he's implied to be capable of ending creation on more than one occasion, and in the context of his series, creation is very clearly ALL of creation. His magic is very consistently portrayed as boundless- even from a cosmic perspective- and his shortcomings are almost always explained away as a result of inexperience and an inability to tap into his full potential.

The Lords of Order and Chaos should probably stay where they are for now until we see something more concrete than what that storyline offered us. The idea that they can destroy The Sphere of The Gods is frankly ridiculous, given pretty much every other feat we've ever seen from them in any variation of canon. It's just asinine. They've never shown anything remotely approaching that power level, and I do not consider the destruction of Myrra to be sufficient proof that they could have pulled it off. Their sanity was questionable in that story, magic itself was kind of going crazy, and Myrra was described as being one of the weakest realms in the sphere anyway. Even ignoring the fact that destroying the sphere would be ridiculously out of range for Nabu, the plan was relatively unclear. Was he planning on destroying the sphere itself, or just the realms within the sphere? He keeps claiming he's trying to do the former, but his actions suggest he's trying to do the latter. And there are entities in that sphere with powers unfathomably greater than anything shown during this storyline or outside of it. For example, presumably, destroying the Sphere of the Gods would entail having to fight through Godhead Darkseid, all his fellow gods, each one of the seve Endless, and The Presence! That's just absurd. I think it's much more likely that this threat was either completely fabricated due to Nabu not knowing what he was talking about, or it was a set up for this specific story without much regard for the broader implications due to the writer planning to stop the plot before having to answer those kinds of questions. I cannot in good faith recommend upgrading The Lords of Order and Choas like this until we see something more concrete from them.

Lastly, The Endless are already listed as 1-A, and I think they are fine there.
 
but I'm pretty sure he's implied to be capable of ending creation on more than one occasion, and in the context of his series, creation is very clearly ALL of creation.

Not only that, he has statements linked to the presence, after my IRL stuff, I will make a good CRT for him.
 
You're talking about his status as a conduit for the Logos, aren't you? The song that was capable of erasing everything in DC?
 
I trust ClassicNESfan's sense of judgement regarding this.
 
Well, if nothing else, I do think we need to fix Timothy Hunter's page. It should preferably include at least two keys (possibly more) to account for his inexperienced showings and his full potential showings. Would somebody else like to work on it, or should I?
 
Well, if a Timothy Hunter revision is already being worked on, I'd be happy to take a look at the finished project and help you incorporate the changes. Ideally, it would be nice to do more than simply offer 1-A justification. His profile could use a better key system, and he's also missing a lot of abilities.
 
Has anybody started to work on Timothy Hunter yet?
 
You can ask Alonik about it via his message wall.
 
@ClassicNESfan

If you need to do important work on wiki pages, I can give you temporary rollback rights, so you can edit them.
 
Timothy Hunter's page definitely needs to be revised. He qualifies for 1-A at the height of his power. I can write the necessary justifications, but he probably also needs some more all-encompassing revisions in addition to that. Would you like me to handle the tier change now and focus on the larger overhauls later after I've reread some key stories?
 
It is probably best if you make proper preparations first, but I will give you temporary rollback rights, so you can edit pages.
 
No problem.

Yes. That would be good. You should mention this thread in the edit comments box.
 
Classic is correct. It is better if you create a separate thread for fixing intelligence ratings, and then inform me about it.
 
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