DBZ Speed CRT

[AKM sama]

There is a small correction I'd like to propose in the calc. The time taken for light to travel between the Earth and the moon is actually

384,400,000 / 299,792,458 = 1.28 s

That means Piccolo's beam took 1.72 s to reach the moon. That puts his speed at

384400000 / 1.72 = 223488372 m/s

which is

223488372 / 299 792 458 = 0.745c

Not 0.764 c

Going off of that

Kaioken x2 = at least 1.49c

Kaioken x3 = at least 2.235c

Kaioken x4 = at least 2.98c

Base Goku (Namek saga) = at least 2.98c (for being above kaioken x4 Goku from Saiyan saga)

Kaioken x2 Goku (against Ginyu) = at least 5.96c (stated power level of 180,000)

I think there is no contention till this point. The next stated power level we get is of first form Freeza which is 530,000

First form Freeza = at least 5.96c (scales to those who scale to un-suppressed first form Freeza and his later forms)

Base Goku (post-zenkai, against Freeza) = at least 5.96c

Kaioken x20 Goku = 50% Freeza = at least 119.2c

100% Freeza = at least 238.4c

SSJ Goku = at least 298c

This is the most conservative and incontrovertible scaling, lacking any inflation, only based on hard evidence, without any room for speculation. Although I do not agree with characters being rated as hundreds of times FTL from a single relativistic feat without anything to show for it. Again, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I am fine with rating them as far higher than 5.96c

 

[OneRhasstyBoi]

Here you are trying to throw away a 20 times multiplier that will make DBZ jump from FTL to MFTL. The same multiplier that is actually stated to boost speed while accepting an 250000 multiplier of Mori Jin. And do not forget, the king of multiplier, Ikki Kurogane, his profile is literally filled with multipliers. Mori Jin literally went from Large Star to Solar System with an 250000 multiplier while Ikki went from Massively Hypersonic to MFTL+ without any feats. And they are accepted, cause you know why , it’s ******* DBZ, DBZ can’t get good stuffs, they can’t be that fast without feats while other verses can.

 

[ByAsura]

We aren't throwing away any 20x multiplier. We're throwing away a vague 10x multiplier due to lack of hard evidence.

No, Mori scales to Okhwang and his own feats. Ikki does have multipliers, but it's a false equivalence because this 10x Kaioken multiplier isn't even confirmed.

 

[Slacjow]

This is the most conservative and incontrovertible scaling, lacking any inflation, only based on hard evidence, without any room for speculation.

Correct me if I am wrong but how are multipliers evidence? Evidence would be feats of characters moving at such speeds. And how is this not speculation when we are guessing characters' speed on multipliers rather than actual feats?

 

[AKM sama]

250000 multiplier of Mori Jin

I think this multiplier is validated by a direct feat where he one shots that many clones, I am not super knowledgeable about that though, but this is the wrong thread to bring it up in.

 

[OneRhasstyBoi]

We aren't throwing away any 20x multiplier. We're throwing away a vague 10x multiplier due to lack of hard evidence.

No, Mori scales to Okhwang and his own feats. Ikki does have multipliers, but it's a false equivalence because this 10x Kaioken multiplier isn't even confirmed.

And when I came to see Okhwang profile, he is High 4-C, there is no 4B feats, Mori Jin needs a multiplier to get him to 4B. And I didn’t even talk about that 10X statement, I was talking about Goku being far higher than 5.96c despite the fact he can stack Kaio Ken 20 to get to MFTL.

 

[ByAsura]

@Slacjow Kaioken explicitly amplifies speed, strength, power, etc, evenly. Characters even scale above those speeds, such as Vegeta. It's 100% evidence. I think you mean proof.

And when I came to see Okhwang profile, he is High 4-C, there is no 4B feats, Mori Jin needs a multiplier to get him to 4B. And I didn’t even talk about that 10X statement, I was talking about Goku being far higher than 5.96c despite the fact he can stack Kaio Ken 20 to get to MFTL.

It's from scaling to characters that do have feats. There's no multipliers involved. And, again, those multipliers are concrete.

Did you listen at all? We're not throwing out Kaioken x20, that's actually the one we're using to get these ratings. The one being thrown out is an unconfirmed statement that Goku could use the Kaioken x10 before the Frieza Saga.

 

[OneRhasstyBoi]

@Slacjow Kaioken explicitly amplifies speed, strength, power, etc, evenly. Characters even scale above those speeds, such as Vegeta. It's 100% evidence. I think you mean proof.

It's from scaling to characters that do have feats. There's no multipliers involved. And, again, those multipliers are concrete.

Did you listen at all? We're not throwing out Kaioken x20, that's actually the one we're using to get these ratings. The one being thrown out is an unconfirmed statement that Goku could use the Kaioken x10 before the Frieza Saga.

And I literally said I didn’t even talk about that 10X statement.

 

[OneRhasstyBoi]

There is a small correction I'd like to propose in the calc. The time taken for light to travel between the Earth and the moon is actually

384,400,000 / 299,792,458 = 1.28 s

That means Piccolo's beam took 1.72 s to reach the moon. That puts his speed at

384400000 / 1.72 = 223488372 m/s

which is

223488372 / 299 792 458 = 0.745c

Not 0.764 c

Going off of that

Kaioken x2 = at least 1.49c

Kaioken x3 = at least 2.235c

Kaioken x4 = at least 2.98c

Base Goku (Namek saga) = at least 2.98c (for being above kaioken x4 Goku from Saiyan saga)

Kaioken x2 Goku (against Ginyu) = at least 5.96c (stated power level of 180,000)

I think there is no contention till this point. The next stated power level we get is of first form Freeza which is 530,000

First form Freeza = at least 5.96c (scales to those who scale to un-suppressed first form Freeza and his later forms)

Base Goku (post-zenkai, against Freeza) = at least 5.96c

Kaioken x20 Goku = 50% Freeza = at least 119.2c

100% Freeza = at least 238.4c

SSJ Goku = at least 298c

This is the most conservative and incontrovertible scaling, lacking any inflation, only based on hard evidence, without any room for speculation. Although I do not agree with characters being rated as hundreds of times FTL from a single relativistic feat without anything to show for it. Again, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I am fine with rating them as far higher than 5.96c

And I was talking about this.The far higher than 5.96c while Goku can stack 20 Kaio Ken on top to get to 100c+.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Here you are trying to throw away a 20 times multiplier that will make DBZ jump from FTL to MFTL. The same multiplier that is actually stated to boost speed while accepting an 250000 multiplier of Mori Jin. And do not forget, the king of multiplier, Ikki Kurogane, his profile is literally filled with multipliers. Mori Jin literally went from Large Star to Solar System with an 250000 multiplier while Ikki went from Massively Hypersonic to MFTL+ without any feats. And they are accepted, cause you know why , it’s ******* DBZ, DBZ can’t get good stuffs, they can’t be that fast without feats while other verses can.

You could use Invisible Dragon's multiplier as a better example. He has a multiplier of 5,783,458,765,666² times

 

[ByAsura]

@Rhassty Oh, you're talking about the last part. Sorry about that. I agree with you there.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

There is a small correction I'd like to propose in the calc. The time taken for light to travel between the Earth and the moon is actually 384,400,000 / 299,792,458 = 1.28 s

AKM, can I get a sourceso I can link it in my blog?

Also I-Ino Sama?

 

[Cul0r]

So yeah, putting Broly aside.

Everything in the Saiyan saga is fine and everybody agrees from what I see.

It seems like the majority agree the 50x SSJ multilier is the most reasonable thing to use.

I think something that is being ignored is the fact that power levels, while not perfect for exact multipliers on their own, are accurate indicators and plot devices made to show who is stronger and faster in most cases in DB, as long as they aren't suppressed or hiding further forms. Thus higher power level means that at the very least an individual scales above a lower power level unless explicitly stated otherwise like with Trunks and Cell. Jeice, Burter and Recoome still need to be scaled above Goku KKx4 for obvious reasons, as they are superior overall based on narrative, power level, and treat a stronger and faster Vegeta like an infant.

As for Goku's scaling on Namek. Goku is so much faster than Recoome, Jeice and Burter that they can't even see him move up close, or from a distance, and he can casually speed blitz them all at the same time, despite them being superior to his SS Kaioken x4 state.

The official synopsis on the back of the manga states outright that Goku increased his power and speed 10 fold on his way to Namek, which lines up perfectly with his showings against the Ginyu force, and his own power level which went up from over 8000 to 90,000. I mean the claim was made that they were referring to Kaioken in the synopsis however that is never stated and just an assumption. There is no reasonable reason to disregard the synopsis statement since it is consistent with the narrative, speed showings and power levels of Goku on Namek.

One last thing we should address while on the subject of reasonable scaling for speed is the fact base Goku vs Frieza >>> Base Namek Goku.

Upon leaving the healing chamber Goku says he is far stronger than before, he thought he had reached his limits before but is amazed that he surpassed them and that his new power is almost scary to him, implying again that he should be vastly superior to his previous states, including with kaioken since his new power exceeds what he thought possible and is beyond anything he thought possible for himself, and we know he was well aware of his ability to use Kaioken x10 as he stated he could while going to Namek, and he even used kaioken just to to show off to Ginyu.

Vegeta also says Goku completely shattered his previous limitations, thinking he could even be a super Saiyan. This is huge because Vegeta is well aware of Goku's Kaioken ability and previous base power, yet feels his base form is vastly beyond any of that, possibly at super saiyan levels. Not to mention power level wise he goes from 90,000 to 3,000,000 which is a 33x multiplier making it narratively consistent. These directly imply that his base should scale above Kaioken x10 Goku from the Ginyu saga.

Relevant scans



So to summarize I propose the following adjustments for the Frieza saga scaling

Recoome, Jecie and Burter > 3.056c

Namek saga Goku = 7.64c

Namek saga Goku (kkx10) = 76.4c

Frieza battle Goku > 76.4c

Frieza battle Goku (kkx10) > 764c

Frieza battle Goku (kkx20) > 1,528c

Frieza (50%) > 1,528c

Frieza (100%) > 3,056c

Goku (SSJ) > 3,820c

These are the recommended alterations I would put forward, and I believe that there is substantial evidence to back up all the increases above as conservative estimates, with no significant contradictions.

Can't say much, this is the best thing to say

 

[AKM sama]

AKM, can I get a sourceso I can link it in my blog?

Also I-Ino Sama?

I mean, my source is just google. Distance between moon and earth. Speed of light.

Yis

 

[SSJRyu1]

@AKM sama

If the calc you have for the moon is more accurate that could be adjusted.

1. Why are you ignoring the stated 10x multiplier from the synopsis, it is an official source and plain as day, which is substantiated by Goku's increase in power level, as well as his showings of speed blitzing Burter, Jeice and Recoome at the same time, who all are superior to KKx4 Goku. Do you have actual proof it is contradictory or cant be used? If not there's no reasonable reason not to use it.

2. Didn't address Recoome, Jeice and Burter scaling above KKx4 Goku, which should be an obvious adjustment as outlined above, unless you wanna argue Goku kkx4 is faster than them despite the narrative and power levels implying they are superior in general.

3. We know Goku could use kaioken x10 as stated on his way to Namek. No reason to believe he was wrong especially when he does this later without much effort vs Freiza. In fact even if you want to ignore that statement, which there is no reason to since it is never contradicted, he can minimum use x4 still, so x2 is not accurate for his top power in Namek saga. He should still logically scale above his kkx10 Namek state based on his and Vegetas statements about his new base form power as I outlined above.

 

[DivineAura44]

1. Why are you ignoring the stated 10x multiplier from the synopsis, it is an official source and plain as day, which is substantiated by Goku's increase in power level, as well as his showings of speed blitzing Burter, Jeice and Recoome at the same time, who all are superior to KKx4 Goku. Do you have actual proof it is contradictory or cant be used? If not there's no reasonable reason not to use it.

1. Because while power levels are supposed to be linear and probably are for important characters, PL's aren't linear. Like for example we have no proof how much superior the Ginyu Force are.

 

[DivineAura44]

2. Didn't address Recoome, Jeice and Burter scaling above KKx4 Goku, which should be an obvious adjustment as outlined above, unless you wanna argue Goku kkx4 is faster than them despite the narrative and power levels implying they are superior in general.

Implication can be very bad sometimes. And once again the power levels do tell if someone is superior but not how much.

 

[SSJRyu1]

1. Because while power levels are supposed to be linear and probably are for important characters, PL's aren't linear. Like for example we have no proof how much superior the Ginyu Force are.

I didn't use power levels as the main arguments my man. The 10x speed increase in the synopsis does not use power levels, it outright says "Goku's power and speed increased 10 fold" on his way to Namek. Power levels simply match up with that statement to is all to further back it up.

 

[DivineAura44]

3. We know Goku could use kaioken x10 as stated on his way to Namek. No reason to believe he was wrong especially when he does this later without much effort vs Freiza. In fact even if you want to ignore that statement, which there is no reason to since it is never contradicted, he can minimum use x4 still, so x2 is not accurate for his top power in Namek saga. He should still logically scale above his kkx10 Namek state based on his and Vegetas statements about his new base form power as I outlined above.

AKM is not saying Goku can't use x10 but that the base of Goku didn't get multiplied by ten. And on top of that, the power of Goku is logically is x10 but there is no proof. Even Vegeta was scared of every GInyu Force member despite being strong in Great Ape individually.

 

[SSJRyu1]

Implication can be very bad sometimes. And once again the power levels do tell if someone is superior but not how much.

All I claimed for the Ginyu's is that they are an unknown amount above Kaiken x4 Goku, which is accurate based on them being touted as vastly superior to an even stronger Namek saga Vegeta, and having superior power levels to Goku kkx4 and Vegeta. But you are right we don't know how much above kkx4 Goku they are, just that they scale above narratively speaking.

 

[DivineAura44]

I didn't use power levels as the main arguments my man. The 10x speed increase in the synopsis does not use power levels, it outright says "Goku's power and speed increased 10 fold" on his way to Namek. Power levels simply match up with that statement to is all to further back it up.

Yes but you use power levels as a reason for backup.

 

[SSJRyu1]

AKM is not saying Goku can't use x10 but that the base of Goku didn't get multiplied by ten. And on top of that, the power of Goku is logically is x10 but there is no proof. Even Vegeta was scared of every GInyu Force member despite being strong in Great Ape individually.

The synopsis literally says Goku multiplied his power and speed ten fold, without any mention of Kaioken, so there is in fact proof he is 10 times as fast in base upon arriving on Namek. and its consistent with his other showings vs the Ginyus.

 

[SSJRyu1]

Yes but you use power levels as a reason for backup.

Its not the main reason, you could ignore the PL and the direct statement from the synopsis would stand on its own. PL are just extra.

 

[DivineAura44]

The synopsis literally says Goku multiplied his power and speed ten fold, without any mention of Kaioken, so there is in fact proof he is 10 times as fast in base upon arriving on Namek. and its consistent with his other showings vs the Ginyus.

And this is true. I never said you were wrong here but in your quote you say we know Goku can use x10. Akm never denied that.

 

[DivineAura44]

Its not the main reason, you could ignore the PL and the direct statement from the synopsis would stand on its own. PL are just extra.

I know this I don't know why this is being denied. I guess Akm thinks it's a hyperbole.

 

[SSJRyu1]

I know this I don't know why this is being denied. I guess Akm thinks it's a hyperbole.

Lol, were gonna get another "increased his strength and speed 10 fold is just flowery language" But yeah, I don't see a reason not to accept it since its very specific, from an official source and not contradicted, if anything its substantiated by Goku's showings and PL.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

I mean, why assume it is an hyperbole when literally nothing suggests that it is? For few reasons:

1) Goku isn't the type of character to use hyperbolic statements and exaggerate. If it was Vegeta I would understand, but Goku isn't like this at all

2) Goku's base power increasing by 10 times since the Saiyan Saga is very consistent with his showings against the Ginyu Force, and considering how all of them (aside from Guldo) are portrayed as far above Saiyan Saga Kaioken times 4 Goku, this is consistent with what is shown in the manga

 

[KLOL506]

I suppose I could compromise for Pre-Zenkai Namek Saga Goku being at the very least superior to his Saiyan Saga KKx4 state.

Regardless, even if we assumed that Ginyu only scales to KKx2 Namek Saga Goku with base Namek Saga Goku already being >>>> KKx4 Saiyan Saga Goku, and restrained first form Frieza by common sense massively scaling above the entire Ginyu Tokusentai, Post-Zenkai Goku would still easily hit MFTL with KKx20 to which 50% Power Final Form Frieza, and no way in hell are we gonna get rid of that multiplier when it's this explicit, or rather, any Kaio-Ken multiplier for that matter. Not to mention how Frieza Saga SSJ1 Goku effortlessly curbstomped 100% Final Form Frieza.

 

[DivineAura44]

There is an over-looked feat which blow this out the water.

 

[DivineAura44]

And it's in the same saga don't worry

 

[DivineAura44]

Here's the feat (we can use base ftl frieza for this.): Frieza in a scene raises his hand to kill Vegeta. And Goku goes around Namek to save his friends and before Frieza can plunge his hand into Vegeta's throat, goku reaches him. Assuming Frieza was bent down lifted his hand and then plunged his hand down full height, that's 10.3(repeating)feet/ 10"4. The size of the planet? I calculated this off of another calc which might not be right but I will also use Earth's size for safety.
High End: Namek's diameter 45620.274km this is off of this calculator right here. Using the diameter to find the volume you get this 4.97×10^13
Using volume to get surface area (We can use volume cuz he doesn't travel through Earth.) you get this 6.54×10^9. Half this to get 3.27x 10^9. Back to Frieza plunging his hand. Frieza would have hit him in (if I did it right) around .0000000000001 seconds. That would be 10907545912979572 SoL. This feat is busted. Btw before you object travel and combat speed is equal in DB. So Frieza striking Vegeta would be equal to his actual speed. On top of this I don't know why this would be brought up as Frieza FTL speed is off of combat so it would work even if CS (Combat) /=/ TS (Travel) but it is equal.

Low End: 668379055753.2971 SoL.

GG MFTL Goku EZ. I don't think you can backwards scale because Goku got a Zenkai and I don't think he got a confirmed difference in power between Namek Saga and Frieza Saga (I know they are the same but just so you know which one.)

 

[Arcker123]

Scan?

 

[Ned_the_outer_god]

How do you know it's 0.0000000001 seconds? Seems like..... w a n k

 

[KLOL506]

Holy **** that's way too big of a speed value. Come on people, don't deviate from the actual subject of the multipliers.

 

[Ned_the_outer_god]

Holy **** that's way too big of a speed value. Come on people, don't deviate from the actual subject of the multipliers.

Also, it's likely an outlier since it's far too fast for any of the consistent speed feats

 

[Nullflowerblush]

The calc stalking is immeasurable.

 

[DivineAura44]

How do you know it's 0.0000000001 seconds? Seems like..... w a n k

So I took his height add 2 inches for the fact that your wingspan is apparent your arms combined and get that as height. Take the fact he's speed of light and the distance of his arm and Vegeta and divide you get that speed. Cuz Time/Distance= Speed.

Scan?

Umm so I can't post images..... nvm that if you take this page and look a lil you'll find the official statement. Here ya go

 

[DivineAura44]

Also, it's likely an outlier since it's far too fast for any of the consistent speed feats

See I never said it was a actually working speed feat, I just posted it.

 

[Arcker123]

Umm so I can't post images..... nvm that if you take this page and look a lil you'll find the official statement. Here ya go

We should evaluate this calc.

 

[DivineAura44]

Umm so I can't post images..... nvm that if you take this page and look a lil you'll find the official statement. Here ya go

It's the yellow image with a red underline. THe underline is them saying he crossed half of namek.