DBZ Speed CRT

[DivineAura44]

Amen.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

This looks legit.

Also, I updated my blog as well.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Agree to this

 

[AKM sama]

Goku, trained under 100G and thinks he can match a kaioken x10. Considering how light and fast he feels, it makes sense for speed to be 10x as well. (7.64c)

Just a slight problem with this part. Just because Goku thinks his body can handle kaioken x10 instead of x4 doesn't mean his base form got 10x stronger and faster. Also, "match a kaioken x10" is misleading phrasing.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Namek Saga Goku's base form is still far superior to his Kaioken times 4 Saiyan Saga self

 

[AKM sama]

I know. So his base form should be (3.056c) instead of (7.64c).

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Though wouldn't the Base Frieza Saga Goku should get the same treatment too by being far superior to his Namek Saga Kaioken times 10 form (he never used it before fighting Frieza but he stated he can. And considering how massive the gap between Namek Saga Goku to Frieza Saga Goku is, this isn't really that far-fetched)

If so, then Namek Saga Kaioken times 10 Goku would be 30.56 c, which Base Frieza Saga Goku would scale above.

So: Base Frieza Saga Goku: 30.56 c. With Kaioken times 20 it would be 611.2 c, and with SSJ it would be 1222.4 c

 

[DBZMLP12345]

I also agree to FTL Saiyan Saga

 

[AKM sama]

Though wouldn't the Base Frieza Saga Goku should get the same treatment too by being far superior to his Namek Saga Kaioken times 10 form (he never used it before fighting Frieza but he stated he can. And considering how massive the gap between Namek Saga Goku to Frieza Saga Goku is, this isn't really that far-fetched)

That's based on something that is pure conjecture. I don't doubt Goku being stronger than a hypothetical kaiokenx10, but there simply isn't enough hard evidence for that scaling. Goku's statement only suggests that he thinks that his body can possibly handle kaioken x10. Maybe he is right, maybe he is stronger than that against Freeza, we don't have incontrovertible evidence.

It's best to take base Goku (Namek saga) as > kaioken x4 Goku (Saiyan saga) and apply x20 on that for kaioken x20, and x50 for SSJ1 and leave it at that.

 

[Stefano4444]

Agree with the new calc and scaling.

Although in the blog you forgot to considered the multipliers from both SSj1 Multiplier and 100% Frieza.

50% Frieza was equal to KK20 Goku, meaning 100% Frieza should be 305.6c, with SSj1 Goku either be >305.6c or 382c.

It should be 50 considering 50% Frieza > Kaioken x20 and SSJ > 100% Frieza.

More like Goku KK20 = 50% Frieza, the former was able to moderately injure Frieza.

Anyway i fully agree with SSj1 Form be considered a 50x multiplier, its is support by both manga and guidebooks.

But if not then it should still be counted as a >40x multiplier since SSj1 Goku was superior to 100% Frieza.

 

[KLOL506]

Just a slight problem with this part. Just because Goku thinks his body can handle kaioken x10 instead of x4 doesn't mean his base form got 10x stronger and faster. Also, "match a kaioken x10" is misleading phrasing.

Not sure how this makes sense considering even the synopsis of the volume outright states Goku's base strength and speed to have increased ten-fold upon his arrival at Namek and the power level also having increased by upto ten times from his training.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

It's best to take base Goku (Namek saga) as > kaioken x4 Goku (Saiyan saga) and apply x20 on that for kaioken x20, and x50 for SSJ1 and leave it at that.

Base Frieza Saga Goku, as well as First Form Frieza and Base Vegeta were all at the very least much stronger than Namek Saga Kaioken times 2 Goku, so tjat might be:

Base Namek Saga Goku: 3.056 c
Kaioken times 2 Namek Saga Goku: 6.112 c
Base Frieza Saga Goku: >>>>>>>> 6.112 c
Kaioken times 20 Namek Saga Goku: >>>>>> 122.24 c
SSJ Goku: >>>> 305.56 c

 

[AKM sama]

Not sure how this makes sense considering even the synopsis of the volume outright states Goku's base strength and speed to have increased ten-fold upon his arrival at Namek and the power level also having increased by upto ten times from his training.

Power levels are not linear. Synopsis is from shonen jump so not canon. And likely a misinterpretation of Goku's statement of being able to handle kaioken x10 as there was no indication that Goku grew 10 times stronger and faster in the original manga.

 

[KLOL506]

Power levels are not linear. Synopsis is from shonen jump so not canon. And likely a misinterpretation of Goku's statement of being able to handle kaioken x10 as there was no indication that Goku grew 10 times stronger and faster in the original manga.

I know Power Levels are not linear, but the multiplier statement is still there. Regardless, even without that Goku would end up being MFTL with SSJ alone due to its 40x multiplier being greater than his KKx20 self.

 

[ByAsura]

I was planning to talk about the 50x multiplier in a DBZ revision thread. I’ll post my evidence here in the morning.

 

[DivineAura44]

Yo, you sure you don't wanna make your own? You are probably gonna flood his section, might take away from the original post, and if the evidence is wrong (I think it's probably true) then people might bring up how this was declined and then use that to reject this despite some people liking it.

 

[ByAsura]

Ok, then. The crt is mostly done, but it’ll take time.

 

[KLOL506]

Ok, then. The crt is mostly done, but it’ll take time.

Out of curiousity, what does the CRT aim to accomplish regarding the 50x SSJ1 multiplier in the Frieza Saga?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yeah, it's safer to compared Namek Saga to Kaioken x4 as opposed to Kaioken x10. Using the gravity formula would have already multiplied his based form by 10x thus would have been over 7c in base form, and then Kaioken being FTL+. Then we'd be having Massively FTL+ characters if we used it again. I agree that I should be comparing Namek cast to Kaioken x4 for so starting with the Ginyu Force or so.

 

[ByAsura]

@KLOL Not much, tbh. That part is only a 25% increase for Frieza Saga God Tiers/Android and Cell Saga Mid-Tiers. The main point of the CRT itself is just to tighten the ludicrously high 2000x gap between someone like Perfect Cell and post-Yardrat Goku.

 

[AKM sama]

Btw I agree that Super Saiyan is a complete 50x multiplier. Even though Akira Toriyama did not mean it to be x50 but that is still the accepted value going by his interview and acknowledged by him. The fact that he did not outright refute the claim when asked about it being accepted as x50, and only talked about his own personal motives while writing it, years after writing that part (and we all know how forgetful he is), plus the scaling that blatantly shows Goku having greater power when compared to Freeza, means that SSJ Goku > x40, and x50 makes the most sense.

 

[sanicspood]

wait so people here really thought ss multipler was only 10x?

...

 

[AKM sama]

wait so people here really thought ss multipler was only 10x?

No, just that is was greater than x40.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Good grief. Looks like I got some changes to make.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yeah, Goku was initially not going all out against a 100% form Frieza, and it's explicitly stated that if he went all out, the fight would have been over all too easily. So him being 1.25x stronger and faster makes perfect sense. Though that doesn't mean we making it 50x for the rest of the series given the inconsistencies. And yes, I got some changes to make too after work.

 

[KLOL506]

Btw I agree that Super Saiyan is a complete 50x multiplier. Even though Akira Toriyama did not mean it to be x50 but that is still the accepted value going by his interview and acknowledged by him. The fact that he did not outright refute the claim when asked about it being accepted as x50, and only talked about his own personal motives while writing it, years after writing that part (and we all know how forgetful he is), plus the scaling that blatantly shows Goku being a superior power when compared to Freeza, means that SSJ Goku > x40, and x50 makes the most sense.

Damn, and here I thought SSJ1 had some in-verse stated multiplier of 40x.

So it's actually 50x.

 

[DivineAura44]

Damn you Akira Toriyamaaaaaa!

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Actually, 40x is actually just a low ball of SSJ being superior to 100% Frieza taking into account that Kaioken x20 is exactly equal to 50% Frieza. There's not exact 40x statement in any source material other than just the aforementioned math.

 

[AKM sama]

Damn, and here I thought SSJ1 had some in-verse stated multiplier of 40x.

Lol, no it was just based on Kaioken x20 Goku equally matching 50% Freeza.
By that logic kaioken x40 Goku should be an equal match for 100% Freeza.

That is where the "greater than 40" comes from, since SSJ Goku was blatantly > 100% Freeza.

 

[Stefano4444]

Though that doesn't mean we making it 50x for the rest of the series given the inconsistencies.

What you mean by that? If SSj1 is accepted as a 50x multiplier, then the SSj1 multiplier will remain valid even in other arcs.

For course this cannot be applied to other forms in anyway, with the exceptions of SSjFP and SSjB.

Since SSjFP is a more efficient version of SSj1 with no difference in power, unlike 2nd Grade and 3rd Grade, so SSj1FP Goku should still be 50x Base Goku.

While the SSjB is adding SSj1 power increase with SSjG, which is already far above standard SSj1, in that case SSjB Goku will have to be 2500x Base Goku.

 

[DivineAura44]

What you mean by that?

The problem is that it would make sense the boost that they get from SSJ being Broly going from 3-A to Low 2-C an infinite multiplier. But it doesn't make sense for them to turn a diff hair color which doesn't give a power boost and that to turn them infinitely. I just think they are 2-C in base.

 

[LordTracer]

Broly did not get that increase from base to SSJ, he got it from his adaptation in his Ikari form

 

[DivineAura44]

Ikari is the Great Ape transformation but not turning into a big monkey which is a x10 boost so that's also an inconsistency so that would work either. Maybe who knows Great Ape suddenly went from x10 boost to infinite? I doubt it.

 

[LordTracer]

I didn’t say the transformation into Ikari gave him the boost, it was his adaptation.

 

[DivineAura44]

So the adaptation gave him an infinite boost? Doubt it.

 

[DivineAura44]

Especially since Vegeta's didn't work like that.

 

[LordTracer]

Just saying “doubt it” isn’t evidence, that’s an appeal to incredulity. And Broly is clearly different than Goku and Vegeta, so comparing them to him isn’t a point either.

 

[Axxtentacle]

What matters is that Broly evolved and breached the gap of power. Saying you don’t think so because it’s a weird idea is an argument from incredulity.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Especially since Vegeta's didn't work like that.

Vegeta didn't grow from Super Saiyan level to Super Saiyan God level to Super Saiyan Blue level in less than half an hour, now did he?

 

[DivineAura44]

Just saying “doubt it” isn’t evidence, that’s an appeal to incredulity. And Broly is clearly different than Goku and Vegeta, so comparing them to him isn’t a point either

Everything you said here is true, but the burden of proof isn't on me. You have yet to prove the connection. And Vegeta and Goku are the closest you are gonna get. Unless you want me to use Berserker Kale who hasn't turned into Ikari.