DBZ Speed CRT

[DivineAura44]

What matters is that Broly evolved and breached the gap of power. Saying you don’t think so because it’s a weird idea is an argument from incredulity.

Everything you said here is true, but the burden of proof isn't on me. You have yet to prove the connection. And Vegeta and Goku are the closest you are gonna get. Unless you want me to use Berserker Kale who hasn't turned into Ikari.

This.

 

[DivineAura44]

*Ikari/Great Ape.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Completely irrelevant. Broly breached that level of power by adapting. Simple.

 

[DivineAura44]

Can you prove he reached that by adapting? That's my question. You made the claim, I shouldn't have to prove it wrong, you have to prove it right.

 

[DivineAura44]

Well you didn't make the claim but you are stating it's true.

 

[DivineAura44]

Vegeta didn't grow from Super Saiyan level to Super Saiyan God level to Super Saiyan Blue level in less than half an hour, now did he?

Correct but he is the closest one we have for proof. Unless you wanna show me another Great Ape that is. Edit: Closer to Broly. Not just in general. Gohan is a hallf-saiyan so he doesn't count. I just wanted to cleat that up.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Can you prove he reached that by adapting? That's my question. You made the claim, I shouldn't have to prove it wrong, you have to prove it right.

Broly went from being easily outclassed by base Vegeta in his base form, to later overpowering Vegetain his Super Saiyan form while still remaining in base

 

[DivineAura44]

Broly went from being easily outclassed by base Vegeta in his base form, to later overpowering Vegetain his Super Saiyan form while still remaining in base

That's not proof of adapting because his rage caused that not adapting. Well maybe it was adapting but you have no proof it wasn't rage. And on top of that rage is more likely.
Also they said the adaptation in Ikari. Ikari isn't his base so this actually works against you.

 

[SSJRyu1]

Glad that the 50x is finally being accepted.

Although based on the Shonen jump synopsis, which is official like the daizenshuu etc. and should be perfectly usable, and the fact his power level indicates a similar boost to a hypothetical kaioken X10, and Goku having showings of blitzing Ginyu force guys who are faster than his Kaiokenx4 self, the 10x boost is much more consistent, has much more substantiating evidence and frankly should be used. Not to mention he becomes vastly stronger and faster than this vs Frieza to the point he would again blitz his Namek saga self, and even be superior to his Namek saga kaioken x10 self while in base. At least Frieza battle should scale well above 10x.

Also Recoome, Jeice and Burter scale above Kaiokenx4 Goku and should be adjusted to reflect this.

 

[Axxtentacle]

That’s dumb. Why would he lost the ability to adapt and get stronger because he went into a stronger form...?

 

[DivineAura44]

That’s dumb. Why would he lost the ability to adapt and get stronger because he went into a stronger form...?

Maybe you didn't read it but according to Tracer Broly gained it in Ikari. That's low-key Straw-man. (Unless you were talking about a different point.)

 

[Axxtentacle]

He said he adapted while in Ikari form. He never said adaptation was specific to Ikari form. That’s a strawman.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

That's not proof of adapting because his rage caused that not adapting. Well maybe it was adapting but you have no proof it wasn't rage. And on top of that rage is more likely.
Also they said the adaptation in Ikari. Ikari isn't his base so this actually works against you.

The adaption applies to ALL of Broly's form. Why would you lose an ability that you have in base when you have a stronger form?

Also nobody said it's not because of Rage, but it was clear Broly was constantly improving as he fought and he increased his powers massively. While that also came from rage, yes, you can't deny that he also adapted to Vegeta.

Also another proof of Broly adapting to his enemies would be Broly reversing Goku's God Bind and using it against him

 

[DivineAura44]

Tracer said he got it while in Ikari. Now you are def doing a blatant strawman. I never said you can't get it while in base I'm saying that Tracer said he got it in Ikari and Gilad said they adapted in base. Unless you are saying Broly adapted twice.

 

[LordTracer]

Tracer said he got it while in Ikari. Now you are def doing a blatant strawman. I never said you can't get it while in base I'm saying that Tracer said he got it in Ikari and Gilad said they adapted in base. Unless you are saying Broly adapted twice.

I said no such thing, don’t lie. I said Broly went from 3-A to Low 2-C in Ikari, I never once said he got his adaptation by going Ikari.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Broly did not get that increase from base to SSJ, he got it from his adaptation in his Ikari form

No, he said he adapted IN HIS IKARI FORM. Not that adaptation is specific to it. Your misunderstanding and strawmanning means nothing here.

 

[DivineAura44]

The adaption applies to ALL of Broly's form. Why would you lose an ability that you have in base when you have a stronger form?

By your logic he adapted stopped adapting for Ikari then did it again. Or you are saying he always had it which contradicts Tracer's statement.

 

[DivineAura44]

I said no such thing, don’t lie. I said Broly went from 3-A to Low 2-C in Ikari, I never once said he got his adaptation by going Ikari.

Broly did not get that increase from base to SSJ, he got it from his adaptation in his Ikari form

He got it from his adaptation in his Ikari form.

 

[DivineAura44]

Also nobody said it's not because of Rage, but it was clear Broly was constantly improving as he fought and he increased his powers massively. While that also came from rage, yes, you can't deny that he also adapted to Vegeta.

Which is kinda head-canon. I agree that he is adapting but there is no concrete proof adapting took him to Low 2-C tho.

 

[DivineAura44]

Also another proof of Broly adapting to his enemies would be Broly reversing Goku's God Bind and using it against him

This is adaptation to a technique, not power.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Anyways, you are derailing this conversation. This isn't a Broly CRT, but a DBZ speed CRT. If you disagree with Broly's abilities or ratings, then make a CRT about it

 

[Axxtentacle]

You are literally misunderstanding what he said and attacking what you believe he said. You’re definition strawmanning. Give up.

 

[LordTracer]

He got it from his adaptation in his Ikari form.

He got THE INCREASE FROM 3-A TO LOW 2-C in Ikari.

 

[DivineAura44]

You are literally misunderstanding what he said and attacking what you believe he said. You’re definition strawmanning. Give up.

Where? Can you show me where tho?

Anyways, you are derailing this conversation. This isn't a Broly CRT, but a DBZ speed CRT. If you disagree with Broly's abilities or ratings, then make a CRT about it

I never wanted it to be about this.

 

[DivineAura44]

He got THE INCREASE FROM 3-A TO LOW 2-C in Ikari.

IN IKARI, HE GOT THE ADAPTATION IN IKARI. YOU ARE SAYING IT YOURSELF.

 

[LordTracer]

IN IKARI, HE GOT THE ADAPTATION IN IKARI. YOU ARE SAYING IT YOURSELF.

That’s literally not what I’m saying. He has adaptation in every form, he specifically increased from 3-A to Low 2-C in Ikari.

At this point, you’re purposefully trying to misinterpret my point, even though I am directly telling you what I meant.

 

[DivineAura44]

That’s literally not what I’m saying. He has adaptation in every form, he specifically increased from 3-A to Low 2-C in Ikari.

At this point, you’re purposefully trying to misinterpret my point, even though I am directly telling you what I meant.

Which I literally pointed out saying unless you are saying he got it in base, lost the adaptation and got in it Ikari. Bruh.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Please stop derailing this thread. This isn't about Broly at all

 

[DivineAura44]

Please stop derailing this thread. This isn't about Broly at all

Yeah this is def true.

 

[KLOL506]

Why is Broly and Ikari being even brought up here? Just focus on Frieza Saga.

 

[LordTracer]

Why is Broly and Ikari being even brought up here? Just focus on Frieza Saga.

He tried to use Broly going from base to SSJ as an “inconsistency” in the boost of power that Super Saiyan gives.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

@DivineAura44 If you don’t stop derailing, as requested multiple times by multiple people, then I’ll have no choice but to report you.

I’m only gonna say this one. Stop derailing the thread, thank you.

 

[DivineAura44]

Umm I kinda stopped commenting 42 minutes ago...

 

[Cul0r]

i agree with this

 

[SSJRyu1]

So yeah, putting Broly aside.

Everything in the Saiyan saga is fine and everybody agrees from what I see.

It seems like the majority agree the 50x SSJ multilier is the most reasonable thing to use.

I think something that is being ignored is the fact that power levels, while not perfect for exact multipliers on their own, are accurate indicators and plot devices made to show who is stronger and faster in most cases in DB, as long as they aren't suppressed or hiding further forms. Thus higher power level means that at the very least an individual scales above a lower power level unless explicitly stated otherwise like with Trunks and Cell. Jeice, Burter and Recoome still need to be scaled above Goku KKx4 for obvious reasons, as they are superior overall based on narrative, power level, and treat a stronger and faster Vegeta like an infant.

As for Goku's scaling on Namek. Goku is so much faster than Recoome, Jeice and Burter that they can't even see him move up close, or from a distance, and he can casually speed blitz them all at the same time, despite them being superior to his SS Kaioken x4 state.

The official synopsis on the back of the manga states outright that Goku increased his power and speed 10 fold on his way to Namek, which lines up perfectly with his showings against the Ginyu force, and his own power level which went up from over 8000 to 90,000. I mean the claim was made that they were referring to Kaioken in the synopsis however that is never stated and just an assumption. There is no reasonable reason to disregard the synopsis statement since it is consistent with the narrative, speed showings and power levels of Goku on Namek.

One last thing we should address while on the subject of reasonable scaling for speed is the fact base Goku vs Frieza >>> Base Namek Goku.

Upon leaving the healing chamber Goku says he is far stronger than before, he thought he had reached his limits before but is amazed that he surpassed them and that his new power is almost scary to him, implying again that he should be vastly superior to his previous states, including with kaioken since his new power exceeds what he thought possible and is beyond anything he thought possible for himself, and we know he was well aware of his ability to use Kaioken x10 as he stated he could while going to Namek, and he even used kaioken just to to show off to Ginyu.

Vegeta also says Goku completely shattered his previous limitations, thinking he could even be a super Saiyan. This is huge because Vegeta is well aware of Goku's Kaioken ability and previous base power, yet feels his base form is vastly beyond any of that, possibly at super saiyan levels. Not to mention power level wise he goes from 90,000 to 3,000,000 which is a 33x multiplier making it narratively consistent. These directly imply that his base should scale above Kaioken x10 Goku from the Ginyu saga.

Relevant scans



So to summarize I propose the following adjustments for the Frieza saga scaling

Recoome, Jecie and Burter > 3.056c

Namek saga Goku = 7.64c

Namek saga Goku (kkx10) = 76.4c

Frieza battle Goku > 76.4c

Frieza battle Goku (kkx10) > 764c

Frieza battle Goku (kkx20) > 1,528c

Frieza (50%) > 1,528c

Frieza (100%) > 3,056c

Goku (SSJ) > 3,820c

These are the recommended alterations I would put forward, and I believe that there is substantial evidence to back up all the increases above as conservative estimates, with no significant contradictions.

 

[DBZMLP12345]

Ryu makes good points, I agree

 

[Slacjow]

Wow, I thought 200x increase from a single feat without supporting evidence was wankish and you propose this?
It's past the point of hilarious I believe.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Wow, I thought 200x increase from a single feat without supporting evidence was wankish and you propose this?
It's past the point of hilarious I believe.

There's actually a lot of evidence to at least that 200 times increase due to Kaioken and SSJ multipliers

 

[ByAsura]

I won’t disagree, but these speed ratings are beginning to get out of hand. We could definitely do with at least a few feats aside from Frieza’s supernova and Piccolo’s beam.

There’s only a couple things that even come close (as in 1/1000th) to these new ratings, and they’re from significantly stronger characters (SSG2 Vegeta, FSS Goku, SS Gotenks, Buu etc).

 

[Slacjow]

There's actually a lot of evidence to at least that 200 times increase due to Kaioken and SSJ multipliers

If we are talking in facts, there's no evidence for FTL+, let alone MFTL.
"Multipliers" aren't sufficient evidence, feats are.