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DBS Tier 2 Scaling Chain [besides Infinite Zamasu]

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Ionliosite said:
Yes, thanks. That puts MUI Goku and SSJ(FP) Broly at roughly the same level due to having the same statement.
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That magazines proves nothing. Not to mention the page likely reference UI rather UIO.

There is like 7 freaking sources wanking Broly as the strongest enemy in DB's in the DB history, and the novel is one of them.
 
How does that contradict anything I just said? MUI Goku is above Beerus, just like SSJ(FP) Broly, and the novel (which we take as canon) accepts Broly as the strongest enemy in Super, which puts him above UBW Jiren, and MUI Goku is also above him, that's what I said they're roughly the same level.
 
I agree on putting Beerus, SSJFP Broly, MUI Goku and UBW Jiren at around the same level, with some of them being superior (by an unknown margin) to one another.

SSJ Broly easily defeated post-ToP SSJB Goku and SSJB Vegeta (stronger versions) at the same time, something "showing a hint of true power" Jiren had trouble doing, and Broly is only comparable to Beerus when using his SSJFP state, and the site treats Jiren as someone above the realm of GoDs even when he was casually fighting SSJBKKx20 Goku and the Genki-Dama and this is clearly wrong.
 
I mean, all we have to compare Beerus and Jiren or Broly is:

-That magazine regarding MUI Goku>=Beerus.

-Goku's comment about Broly being possibly stronger than Beerus.

-The rumours about Jiren being stronger than his GoD, who is physically stronger than Beerus. Then Whis at ep 109 confirms the rumors are true.

Sooo, the first two can't be taken as valid. I mean, Goku doesn't even know about Beerus' FP and the magazine thing didn't even happen. The third one is kinda vague, but then all we saw should confirm that the rumours were true, and I doubt Jiren was soo hyped up for nothing and GoDs reaction to MUI is something to consider. Belmod didn't make these rumours for nothing, He knew about his and Jiren's power pre Limit Break enough to make them...

I believe MUI Goku>/=LB Jiren>>FP Jiren>=Belmod>/=Beerus>=UIO3 Goku.

While LSSJ Broly should be superior to all of them, but idk if by a massive margin or not (and yeah, I doubt Belmod is as weak as GoD Toppo, I mean, is definitely possible for other GoDs to be at that level of power or even lower but Belmod should be superior to Beerus) .
 
Vermoud being stronger than Jiren makes no sense. GoD Toppo is equal to him, and he got defeated by SSJBE Vegeta, so Vermoud can't be stronger than Jiren, because that means SSJBE Vegeta is somehow comparable to MUI Goku, who in turn is vastly above SSJBKKx20 Goku, who was confirmed to be equal to SSJBE Vegeta.
 
He said in the manga... GoD Toppo & SSBKK Goku weren't even in the manga along with SSB Vegeta evolving differently in the manga as well. Not to mention the power scale is way different...
 
So I am supposed to believe that Goku and Vegeta stomps the clown god now? The same guy whose people used to scale Jiren above Beerus? The same guy the anime implied to be stronger than Beerus?

Pick a side already people. If Clown god is that weak then Jiren has no business being on Beerus's level.
 
The 2nd Existential Seed said:
I am just going to day he was never implied to be equal to Belmod in the anime. He was only implied to be comparable to God of Destruction Level.
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That's what I remember as well, and merely being comparable to 'GoD level' isn't too large of a feat by the end of the ToP.
 
Yeah, there's nothing indicating GoD Toppo is equal to Belmod. The clown god was implied to be stronger than Beerus on the anime.

And also, Belmod being > Jiren wasn't ever implied in the anime so it doesn't count. Manga statements CAN'T be used for the anime, especially when the anime told us Jiren is stronger than Belmod.

Since Initial UIO3 Goku was stated to be reaching the level of the Gods, I go by FP Jiren>/=UIO3 Goku>Belmod>=Beerus>Jiren(close to FP) >Initial UIO3 Goku.

Those GoDs are the highest, while the weaker ones like said previously are around UIO1 tier. Sidra it's probably at that level.
 
Universal Spirit Bomb Ôëê Blue KK ├ù20 Goku (ep. 110) = Ikari/Wrathful Broly (Full Power) <= Blue KK Goku (VS Kefla) = SSJ Kefla Ôëê Blue Goku (End of ToP) Ôëê Blue Vegeta (End of ToP) Ôëê True Golden Freeza (Broly arc, post potential training) < Blue Vegeta (FF) Ôëê Merged Zamasu (peak) < Vegito Blue (FT arc) < 1st Omen Ôëê Supressed Jiren < SSJ2 Kefla Ôëê SSJ Broly <= Blue KK├ù10 Goku (End of ToP) < 2nd Omen < GoD Toppo <= FP SSJ Broly < Blue KK├ù20 Goku (End of ToP) < Blue Evolution Vegeta (Maximum Power) < 3rd Omen = Full Power/100% Jiren < Limit Break/Super Full Power Jiren < MUI (Rage Boost) Ôëê Gogeta Blue (Broly arc)

^From kanzenshuu
 
SSJ2 Kefla's maximum power seems to be missing there, she could have one-shot and killed UIO2 Goku if she hit him.
 
Well, Goku said that "Hint of true Power" Jiren attack was the heaviest he ever felt and he already have an idea how strong LSSJ2 Kefla is. Goku and Vegata later on power up and actually start giving Jiren troubles, GoD Toppo was able to overpower initial SSBE so:

Rage Vegeat > GoD Toppo > Hint of true power Jiren > Kefla > 2UIO Goku.
 
Technically, Goku never actually felt SSJ2 Kefla's maximum, her attacks only slightly grazed him. But fair enough. HoTP Jiren was fighting off both SSBKK x20 Goku and SSBE Vegeta (Initial) at the same time, and he was still performing quite well, Whis said they were only pushing him back because their simultaneous and uncoordinated attacks were throwing him off. So, shouldn't HoTP Jiren be superior to GoD Toppo?
 
They were actually getting on Jiren's nerves before Toppo intervene. In my opinion Toppo and HOTP Jiren are around the same level.
 
Seriously thought, how did that guy put Broly below SSBKKx20 Goku? Even if you downplay Broly to hell, he should still be around 3rd UIO Goku.
 
@ZERO I agree. If you say Son Goku's current level is close to the GoD's Full Power and reaching his peak when he felt at the end of the Super show he stated he didn't have any, he's a lot stronger than the Tournament of Power. Then combine what Broly does against SSJ Gogeta and the twin turbine duos... That's at least close to UIO 3rd if not equal.

Also the whole 'getting beat up by the strongest ever, Broly'... Son Goku wasn't beaten up by Ikari Broly once he went Blue, neither did Gogeta or Vegeta really so neither of them count... And the fact the picture shows the scene after Ikari Broly beats up him up with SSG Goku laying on the ground . The only time he got beat up... Is Ikari Form Broly vs SSG... So he believes just being beaten up as SSG makes Broly "the strongest ever"... Kind of how Frieza thought similar in the novel when getting hit.

Could we use this to estimate how strong Post-ToP SSB Goku and Ikari Broly are ? Using the good lowball IMHO it would make them superior to GoD Toppo.
 
Enryu The Red Tower said:
I was wondering where the information came from that Belmod is superior to Beerus ...
Click to expand...
Whis said that there's a mortal (Jiren) stronger than his GoD (Belmod), and that GoD was stronger than Beerus. Later that rumour was confirmed to be true so Belmod should imo at least be equal to Beerus.

Also, lol at that Kanzenshuu scaling chain, how is Broly at his peak only equal to GoD Toppo?
 
If the Anime is any indication and the events happen just like the Movie, they admit twice that neither of them can fight or truly even affect SSJ Broly alone... Which means he's superior to a Post-ToP SSBE Vegeta / SSBKKX20 Goku which they should be comparable. They even said fusion is the only option they had so yeah I have SSJ Broly >> GoD Toppo just by that alone... Not even including the novel which basically confirms it.
 
If UIO1 becomes 1/2 baseline 2-C, everyone who is UIO2 tier or above is easily 2-C ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°
 
Jiren is above GoD and it has been said multiple of times and fact Jiren kept powering up makes Jiren>Beerus its just not debatable at this point
 
Omegas03 said:
If UIO1 becomes 1/2 baseline 2-C, everyone who is UIO2 tier or above is easily 2-C ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°
Click to expand...
SSJ2 Kefla and those above her should already be possibly 2-C (at least), since Kefla can one-shot a GoD level being.
 
I am confusion

  • Jiren's casual state (ep 110 while pushing the Genki-Dama) is being treated as he's at least as strong as GoDs. But Whis was likely referring to Jiren in general, not his state of power at that moment. That would make sense because Whis already knew from what Universe Jiren was from, so he basically deduced that the unknown warrior was Jiren, simply because by that time he had seen every Pride Trooper fighting and no one showed great strength besides Toppo.
  • Base Full power Jiren should be stronger (by an unknown margin) than Beerus.
  • SSJ Broly is not stronger than Beerus, and that proves that HoTP/Serious Jiren is also not stronger than Beerus because Broly easily overpowered post-ToP SSJB Goku + SSJB Vegeta, and Broly is only comparable/stronger than Beerus with his SSJFP state.
  • I think we should take into account that Belmod might have been referring to Toppo's destructive abilities all along, not his power level. This is the dialogue:
17: That's...

Beerus: It's destruction.

Kuririn: But, the Power of Destruction...

Belmod: Indeed. It's a power belonging only to Gods of Destruction.

It seems that every dialogue from that scene is referring to Toppo's destructive abilities. Toppo is no different than a GoD because he became a GoD, but becoming a GoD doesn't automatically make you equal to different GoDs in terms of power (which is the main point of this thread). I'm not sure where I would put Toppo, I'll just keep reading the thread for now.

The main issue here is GoD Toppo and GoDs in general. My head is exploding. Correct me please if I'm wrong, been a while since I watched DBS.
 
ZERO7772 said:
Belmod is implied to be stronger than Jiren as far raw power goes in the manga
Click to expand...
might want to read the manga again. toppo outright says that Jiren has a higher power level than belmod, not the other way around.
 
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