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DBS speed problem

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I agree that they do scale to the speed of their explosions and the shockwaves they produce FRA, Kakarot, Ryu, and Zamasu are right from what I can see.
 
D4yN4m0N said:
Well, if that is accepted, what would Goku's speed look like in his Ultra Instinct form?
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Assuming the new calc get accepted and that multipliers for both Kaioken, SSj1 and SSjB Forms are still valid.

471,437,253,000,000,000*40*40*20 = 15,085,992,100,000,000,000,000c or 15.09 Sextillions of Times FTL.

And this without counting other forms, zenkai, training or even Ultra Instinct itself.

Edit:

With the new accepted result of BoG Universal energy ball speed (Mid End).

195,690,936,000,000,000*40*40*20 = 6,262,109,950,000,000,000,000c or 6.26 Sextillions of Times FTL.
 
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Just a question, but do we accept the other forms multipliers? And do we accept that it increases speed or no?
 
Rikimarox2 said:
Just a question, but do we accept the other forms multipliers? And do we accept that it increases speed or no?
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I don't see reason why we shouldn't, the Kaioken and SSj1 Form multipliers had be accepted for DBZ Goku, so the same should be apply with DBS Goku.

For SSjB Form, its basically the SSj1 Form + SSjG Form, and since the later is far above regular SSj1 Form, that would also count as a 40x multiplier.
 
Personally I think 15 Sextillions times ftl is a massive lowball but since we don't know boast from (also neglecting ACTUAL SSJ multipliers) god & ui multipliers, other zenkai boasts & numerous Training boast & adapting via reactive Evolutions then its fine I guess
Personally my headcanon is octillions of times ftl
 
Can we not talk about hypothetical speed scaling yet? It was already hard enough getting this accepted. It's not even officially accepted yet.
 
I'm really uneasy about scaling anyone from the speed of the explosion.
 
I thought we already explained that we don't really scale a character's speed from the aftermath of the explosion.
 
I mean, if they have feats or statements of them reacting to the explosions, I don't see why we shouldn't scale them.
 
Characters outpacing blast radius expansions is fine if there's a visual scene of that. But we don't really assume the expand that fast in every scene even if it's consistent for them to have said speeds.
 
It's elaborated in our Calc stacking rules why this is the case. The blast moving at Massively FTL+ and a character outpacing it needs to happen at the same time for it to be a legit calculatable feat.
 
That's double standards. We use things like Piccolos beam speed and Roshi's beam speed to scale speed even though nobody ever reacts to or dodges them because we know the cast are consistently comparable in speed to their ki attacks. This is no different since we have concluded it's consistent for them to be comparable in speed to the explosions from said ki blasts as well.
 
In Piccolo's example, that's the actual beam of his attacks; similar to characters reacting to them throwing a grenade as oppose to it exploding. Although, need to rewatch the seen, but if the same explosion attempting to bust the universe has its expanding radius was reacted to, then the scaling is fine.
 
I can see the evidence Ryu brought up about characters scaling to the explosion of their ki blasts. But that wasn't my original point.

My original point was that the explosion never happened. Only that the explosion was just about to happen as soon as the energy ball started glowing because of too much power. It generated light which engulfed the universe, nobody reacted to that light. And Beerus started nullifying and completely nullified the energy.

I can see the other interpretation Zamasu is trying to go with here. That being, the little pop that emitted light was actually the explosion. But then again, we have no evidence that the pop or little explosion's speed is the same as the light it emitted.
 
The way I see it, here are the facts.

1. We can agree they scale to the speed of the explosions from their ki blasts consistently.
2. We can agree that it is implied the explosion from The ki ball was going to engulf all U7 very quickly, likely at similar speed to the light emitted since Whis and the kais felt that was the end of the Universe, and were surprised that Beerus nullified it after the fact.
3. We agree that the blast very well could have detonated, but there are more than one interpretations on that between AKM an Zamasu.

Now of course if the blast did detonate and Beerus reacted to it then they obviously scale. However, considering the characters should scale to the speed of the explosion, regardless of if it happened or not, since we know the explosions speed scales to the characters speed, this should apply to their speed whether it detonated or not based on the facts above and a basic train of logic that says speed of explosion (realized or not) = speed of characters.

Its the same idea as applying the universe destroying power of the feat, despite the fact it never actually destroys the Universe, but we know it could. Well whether or not the blast crossed the universe or not, we know it would have in a very brief time, and we know the characters should scale to the speed of the explosion.
 
SSJRyu1 said:
The way I see it, here are the facts.

1. We can agree they scale to the speed of the explosions from their ki blasts consistently.
2. We can agree that it is implied the explosion from The ki ball was going to engulf all U7 very quickly, likely at similar speed to the light emitted since Whis and the kais felt that was the end of the Universe, and were surprised that Beerus nullified it after the fact.
3. We agree that the blast very well could have detonated, but there are more than one interpretations on that between AKM an Zamasu.

Now of course if the blast did detonate and Beerus reacted to it then they obviously scale. However, considering the characters should scale to the speed of the explosion, regardless of if it happened or not, since we know the explosions speed scales to the characters speed, this should apply to their speed whether it detonated or not based on the facts above and a basic train of logic that says speed of explosion (realized or not) = speed of characters.

Its the same idea as applying the universe destroying power of the feat, despite the fact it never actually destroys the Universe, but we know it could. Well whether or not the blast crossed the universe or not, we know it would have in a very brief time, and we know the characters should scale to the speed of the explosion.
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Yes agree
 
SSJRyu1 said:
2. We can agree that it is implied the explosion from The ki ball was going to engulf all U7 very quickly, likely at similar speed to the light emitted since Whis and the kais felt that was the end of the Universe, and were surprised that Beerus nullified it after the fact.
Click to expand...
Don't know about likely at similar speed as the light because the speed of expansion of the explosion cannot be assumed to be the same as the light it generates. But at a speed at which everyone thought the universe will be destroyed. Could be 10 seconds or 2 minutes, it is anyone's guess.
 
why would u assume it's just light in the 1st place ? when it detonates we literally hear a BOOM so.und effect , and everyone was expecting the universe to be destroyed in that moment , unless u wanna say smh the light was gonna destroy everything ..

death by solar flare
 
@AKM sama It is definitely implied though that the kais and Whis thought the light was the end of the Universe at that moment as it engulfed it, as they were surprised and perplexed that everything was intact after it passed, due to Beerus nullifying the energy as Whis realized. So I think the light is a reasonable estimate of the timeframe since Whis and the kais felt the light and destruction would coincide if not for Beerus interfering.

I mean if we really wanted to low ball it we could say the implied immediate destruction is like a minute or something, but I find the light to be a better gauge based on their reactions and statements. Either way we can put some timeframe on it, even if we opted to use a reasonable timeframe for an immediate destruction, instead of the timeframe of the light (although I feel the light has more merit than a low balled assumed timeframe based on the statements and reactions of Whis and the kais thinking the Universe should have been gone by the time the light engulfed it.)
 
This is taking a long time for an important topic like this, since if it is accepted, it will change the speed of the characters of Dragon Ball Super a lot. This topic was stuck for some time.
 
AKM seems to have valid concerns here, but I would prefer to see what other staff members think as well.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
In Piccolo's example, that's the actual beam of his attacks; similar to characters reacting to them throwing a grenade as oppose to it exploding. Although, need to rewatch the seen, but if the same explosion attempting to bust the universe has its expanding radius was reacted to, then the scaling is fine.
Click to expand...
We don't use the speed of the moon being destroyed for that feat, just the speed of Piccolo's beam reaching the moon from the earth (Which happens within roughly 3 seconds in the anime, which was deemed to be usable for the manga since the feat is blow-for-blow identical to the manga, only part we can't use from the anime yet is the destruction of the moon). So yeah, you're right, Piccolo's moonbusting beam isn't anything like the exploding universe ball or whatever it's called.
 
KLOL506 said:
We don't use the speed of the moon being destroyed for that feat, just the speed of Piccolo's beam reaching the moon from the earth (Which happens within roughly 3 seconds in the anime, which was deemed to be usable for the manga since the feat is blow-for-blow identical to the manga, only part we can't use from the anime yet is the destruction of the moon). So yeah, you're right, Piccolo's moonbusting beam isn't anything like the exploding universe ball or whatever it's called.
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no one said they would scale to speed of the explosion , they should scale to beerus acting before the explosion reached earth .

this is like the 3rd time we explain this
 
CR_Catinho said:
no one said they would scale to speed of the explosion , they should scale to beerus acting before the explosion reached earth .

this is like the 3rd time we explain this
Click to expand...
I was only saying this for Piccolo's feat, not for Beerus's feat.
 
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